Dreaded 2nd Gear Slip

[Black2]

For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.

Quick question for those who've dealt with this:

Is it necessary to replace the 2nd and 5th pinion gears (parts 8&9 in the link below) in addition to 2nd and 5th gear wheels (27&30) and the shift fork? My thoughts are not required with straight cut gears, but I'd like to ask those with more experience. Thanks!

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/50046089f8700209bc7951a6/transmission

I'm also going to upgrade to the slipper clutch while I'm in there.

 

[dcarver]

I don't have answers for you but KUDO's for going that deep...

BTW FredW did a slipper clutch upgrade. You might PM him.

 

[rickysnickers]

There was a member on here years ago, Ponyfool was his handle, I believe. Anyway, he pulled his engine and did just what you are asking about. You should be able to find his thread if you search for it.

 

[rickysnickers]

I found them for you. Unfortunately, it seems the photos are gone, but the threads still might help.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/105278-shifting-issue-identified-culprit-found/

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/103666-2nd-gear-dog-is-worn/

 

[FJ3R]

For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.
Quick question for those who've dealt with this:

Is it necessary to replace the 2nd and 5th pinion gears (parts 8&9 in the link below) in addition to 2nd and 5th gear wheels (27&30) and the shift fork? My thoughts are not required with straight cut gears, but I'd like to ask those with more experience. Thanks!

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/50046089f8700209bc7951a6/transmission

I'm also going to upgrade to the slipper clutch while I'm in there.

I just did the job on my 2006. I bought it last winter and rode 9000 ks on it but the second gear slipped when I twisted the throttle hard. Actually, the worn dogs are on part 27 and the inside of part 30 is also worn. I don't think part 8 and 9 have anything to do with the problem. The apparently slight wear of the dogs has a huge impact on its capacity to stay in place. I examined my forks and they were perfect so I didn't change them.

If you can tell me how to post some pictures I'll gladly put a few up.

Cheers

 

[Black2]

For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.
Quick question for those who've dealt with this:

Is it necessary to replace the 2nd and 5th pinion gears (parts 8&9 in the link below) in addition to 2nd and 5th gear wheels (27&30) and the shift fork? My thoughts are not required with straight cut gears, but I'd like to ask those with more experience. Thanks!

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/50046089f8700209bc7951a6/transmission

I'm also going to upgrade to the slipper clutch while I'm in there.

I just did the job on my 2006. I bought it last winter and rode 9000 ks on it but the second gear slipped when I twisted the throttle hard. Actually, the worn dogs are on part 27 and the inside of part 30 is also worn. I don't think part 8 and 9 have anything to do with the problem. The apparently slight wear of the dogs has a huge impact on its capacity to stay in place. I examined my forks and they were perfect so I didn't change them.

If you can tell me how to post some pictures I'll gladly put a few up.

Cheers

Thanks! For sure it's 27 and 30 that have to go. I'm also surprised how little wear is needed to cause this. In my case, the fork has started to rub on 2nd, so it's got to go. I'm just concerned about problems down the road running old gears with new. If I understand you correctly, you did not replace 8 & 9? And no issues?

I found them for you. Unfortunately, it seems the photos are gone, but the threads still might help.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/105278-shifting-issue-identified-culprit-found/

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/103666-2nd-gear-dog-is-worn/

Thanks! It was the detail Ponyfool provided in these threads that gave me the confidence to give this a shot. My only issue so far was not marking the rear balancer when I pulled the clutch. I don't think it's moved, but I'll have pull that cover and make sure when it's back together. Right now, it's getting the parts ordered and then a few months of winter to it back together. Hopefully it all goes well.

 

[FJ3R]

For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.
Quick question for those who've dealt with this:

Is it necessary to replace the 2nd and 5th pinion gears (parts 8&9 in the link below) in addition to 2nd and 5th gear wheels (27&30) and the shift fork? My thoughts are not required with straight cut gears, but I'd like to ask those with more experience. Thanks!

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/50046089f8700209bc7951a6/transmission

I'm also going to upgrade to the slipper clutch while I'm in there.

I just did the job on my 2006. I bought it last winter and rode 9000 ks on it but the second gear slipped when I twisted the throttle hard. Actually, the worn dogs are on part 27 and the inside of part 30 is also worn. I don't think part 8 and 9 have anything to do with the problem. The apparently slight wear of the dogs has a huge impact on its capacity to stay in place. I examined my forks and they were perfect so I didn't change them.

If you can tell me how to post some pictures I'll gladly put a few up.

Cheers

Thanks! For sure it's 27 and 30 that have to go. I'm also surprised how little wear is needed to cause this. In my case, the fork has started to rub on 2nd, so it's got to go. I'm just concerned about problems down the road running old gears with new. If I understand you correctly, you did not replace 8 & 9? And no issues?

I found them for you. Unfortunately, it seems the photos are gone, but the threads still might help.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/105278-shifting-issue-identified-culprit-found/

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/103666-2nd-gear-dog-is-worn/

Thanks! It was the detail Ponyfool provided in these threads that gave me the confidence to give this a shot. My only issue so far was not marking the rear balancer when I pulled the clutch. I don't think it's moved, but I'll have pull that cover and make sure when it's back together. Right now, it's getting the parts ordered and then a few months of winter to it back together. Hopefully it all goes well.

I didn't change the gears. As for issues... I'll have to wait till spring to try it out. for now, everything runs fine but I'm in the deep freeze right now.

I haven't come accros that concern in my own research. I assume it's a good point but a bit above my pay grade.

Here is a thorough thread on the subject. He did it on a Gen 3 but I think he changed only the second and fifth gear wheels.

https://www.fjriders....php?f=21&t=3138

 

[FJ3R]

Oh, and here's another one I found very helpful.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/replacing-the-transmission-in-an-fjr.347961/

 

[Uncle Hud]

Black2 posted: For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.

Mine is in the shop at this moment, getting the shift fork replaced under YES warranty. It's taken quite a bit of effort to convince Momma Yama that it should be covered.

My service tech -- who I trust with my life, literally -- says the dogs are not worn enough to make a difference, so the actual gears won't be replaced. He's done this on three other FJRs and all of his work on my bike will be covered under YES, so I think he's telling me the straight story: only the shift fork needs replacement, and it's only lightly marred by rubbing. Enough, he says, to miss full engagement of gear dogs.

My bike's got 78,000 miles. It's been ridden hard, but not hooned. Commuting into midtown Atlanta 4-5 days per week (lots of first-to-second shifting), and many, many days in nearby mountain roads (shifting and running hard in second gear).

<edit 3 mins later> He diagnosed it with a 90-second test ride. The slip (or surge) only happens when the drivetrain is torqued hard under rapid acceleration. When the dogs slip, the expected clank/jerk is softened by all the components in the FJR's shaft drive: the shaft's bevel gears create slack and each drivetrain component has mass. That combination dampens the jerkiness I expected if gear dogs were to slip.

It only affects the shift from first to second, as that's a lot farther "shove" that the pinions have to be moved. Not sure why it doesn't affect the downshift from second into first.

 

[art miller]

Since I am an old guy who never accelerates hard from first into second, can I expect this problem will never affect my ride?? I must admit I once did get on it hard from first thru 4th when a guy in a 911 badgered me at a stoplight in a rural area. FJR was ahead up to 90mph when I backed off.

 

[Black2]

Black2 posted: For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.

Mine is in the shop at this moment, getting the shift fork replaced under YES warranty. It's taken quite a bit of effort to convince Momma Yama that it should be covered.

My service tech -- who I trust with my life, literally -- says the dogs are not worn enough to make a difference, so the actual gears won't be replaced. He's done this on three other FJRs and all of his work on my bike will be covered under YES, so I think he's telling me the straight story: only the shift fork needs replacement, and it's only lightly marred by rubbing. Enough, he says, to miss full engagement of gear dogs.

My bike's got 78,000 miles. It's been ridden hard, but not hooned. Commuting into midtown Atlanta 4-5 days per week (lots of first-to-second shifting), and many, many days in nearby mountain roads (shifting and running hard in second gear).

<edit 3 mins later> He diagnosed it with a 90-second test ride. The slip (or surge) only happens when the drivetrain is torqued hard under rapid acceleration. When the dogs slip, the expected clank/jerk is softened by all the components in the FJR's shaft drive: the shaft's bevel gears create slack and each drivetrain component has mass. That combination dampens the jerkiness I expected if gear dogs were to slip.

It only affects the shift from first to second, as that's a lot farther "shove" that the pinions have to be moved. Not sure why it doesn't affect the downshift from second into first.

Thanks for the feedback. My fork is slightly, but certainly bent and marred as well. I'm sure that it is the cause my issues. The gear dogs are visibly rounded. Maybe not enough to make a difference, but I don't have the experience to know for sure so I'll be replacing them to be certain. Great job getting this covered by YES!

 

[Black2]

For the last few years, I've been experiencing what I thought was wheel slip. After reading several threads here and concluding that it's likely 2nd gear, I decided to pull the engine and check things out. Sure enough, it's 2nd gear. Other than very minor rubbing on the shift fork and some rounding of the dogs, the internals look very good for 80K miles.
Quick question for those who've dealt with this:

Is it necessary to replace the 2nd and 5th pinion gears (parts 8&9 in the link below) in addition to 2nd and 5th gear wheels (27&30) and the shift fork? My thoughts are not required with straight cut gears, but I'd like to ask those with more experience. Thanks!

https://www.partshark.com/oemparts/a/yam/50046089f8700209bc7951a6/transmission

I'm also going to upgrade to the slipper clutch while I'm in there.

I just did the job on my 2006. I bought it last winter and rode 9000 ks on it but the second gear slipped when I twisted the throttle hard. Actually, the worn dogs are on part 27 and the inside of part 30 is also worn. I don't think part 8 and 9 have anything to do with the problem. The apparently slight wear of the dogs has a huge impact on its capacity to stay in place. I examined my forks and they were perfect so I didn't change them.

If you can tell me how to post some pictures I'll gladly put a few up.

Cheers

Thanks! For sure it's 27 and 30 that have to go. I'm also surprised how little wear is needed to cause this. In my case, the fork has started to rub on 2nd, so it's got to go. I'm just concerned about problems down the road running old gears with new. If I understand you correctly, you did not replace 8 & 9? And no issues?

I found them for you. Unfortunately, it seems the photos are gone, but the threads still might help.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/105278-shifting-issue-identified-culprit-found/

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/103666-2nd-gear-dog-is-worn/

Thanks! It was the detail Ponyfool provided in these threads that gave me the confidence to give this a shot. My only issue so far was not marking the rear balancer when I pulled the clutch. I don't think it's moved, but I'll have pull that cover and make sure when it's back together. Right now, it's getting the parts ordered and then a few months of winter to it back together. Hopefully it all goes well.

I didn't change the gears. As for issues... I'll have to wait till spring to try it out. for now, everything runs fine but I'm in the deep freeze right now.

I haven't come accros that concern in my own research. I assume it's a good point but a bit above my pay grade.

Here is a thorough thread on the subject. He did it on a Gen 3 but I think he changed only the second and fifth gear wheels.

https://www.fjriders....php?f=21&t=3138

I just finished reading this thread and I'm comfortable only changing the gear wheels. Good luck with yours once winter is done.

 

[Black2]

Since I am an old guy who never accelerates hard from first into second, can I expect this problem will never affect my ride?? I must admit I once did get on it hard from first thru 4th when a guy in a 911 badgered me at a stoplight in a rural area. FJR was ahead up to 90mph when I backed off.

I don't know for sure, but in my research some have suggested that a missed shift or being too gentle could also cause the fork to bend.

 

[FJ3R]

Hi Black2,

I just posted a video on my second gear repair... might interest you.

Happy new year

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I rode the **** out of mine and never had a slip. Good info if I encounter that problem

on this one Hud.

 

[sector7g]

Well done, FJ3R. You made it look easy. .

 

[Heen]

Uncle Hud,

What oil do you run in your bike?

Everyone,

Does oil have an impact on the wear on the forks and dogs?

 

[Black2]

Great video FJ3R.