Dry Clutch

[jammess]

Like someone said in a prior thread: "I thought the FJR had a wet clutch?"

On my almost new (4,010 miles) the shifting slowly began to get more clunky with a false neutral occurring now and then. So, after searching this forum I decided to do a clutch soak because the bike has spent most of its life in a warehouse somewhere. I put the friction discs in a zip lock bag to oil soak and I won't do that again. The clutch discs were completely dry with the exception of the two outer discs which coincides with what others have said. All went pretty well not counting the hole in the zip lock bag.

The not so good thing is that now the clutch won't disengage. I'm going to take it apart this AM and carefully inspect the assembly but for the life of me I can't figure out what I did wrong. All the red dots on the friction discs are back in between the two triangles where they were to begin with. I did have a time replacing the clutch boss wire ring and wish I would have obtained a new one before attempting this operation. In fact I kind of wish I had left the whole thing alone but too late now.

I should say I have no experience with wet clutches having spent most of my riding years on flat twins. You would think I would be used to clunky shifting by now.

HELP!

 

[Fred W]

The not so good thing is that now the clutch won't disengage.

By the above I assume that you mean that when you pull the clutch lever in the engine is still fully engaged with the transmission, right?

Pull the clutch cover off again, and watch the pressure plate for action when you pull in the lever. It should visibly lift off of the stack of plates below.

If it doesn't, remove the pressure plate and then pull out the little pusher rod. There should be a steel ball in the hole under that little rod that is pressed by the longer rod that comes from the clutch slave cylinder on the left side of the engine. It's easy to lose that ball if you took the shorter pusher rod out.

 

[Donal]

Suggest you try typing the following clutch soak site:fjrforum.com this will get you all the info you need.

e.g. "When I did my soak, I got this error. My cure was to take the clutch apart and put it together again, taking special care that the ring at the back was properly seated (most likely the cause) and that the splines were properly aligned (unlikely the cause).

I'll post references when I'm back at base (about 5 hours hopefully)."

 

[Viper Pilot]

I bet you lost that little steel ball that Fred mentioned.

 

[lele]

my clutch improve after I discover to do this: pull the clutch 10 times during the warm-up and sometimes during a ride at high speed stay with the clutch pulled for a while.

no more clutch soaks from 5000km

 

[mcatrophy]

Very easy to get the first and last friction plates confused, make very sure you have them right.

 

[jammess]

The not so good thing is that now the clutch won't disengage.

By the above I assume that you mean that when you pull the clutch lever in the engine is still fully engaged with the transmission, right?

Pull the clutch cover off again, and watch the pressure plate for action when you pull in the lever. It should visibly lift off of the stack of plates below.

If it doesn't, remove the pressure plate and then pull out the little pusher rod. There should be a steel ball in the hole under that little rod that is pressed by the longer rod that comes from the clutch slave cylinder on the left side of the engine. It's easy to lose that ball if you took the shorter pusher rod out.

Evening Fred and other posters, I didn't move or disturb the clutch push rod assembly. Never touched the clutch lever at all until I had re-assembled the clutch. Never got into the area that is home to the little steel ball.

I slowly took the whole thing apart again and all looked OK. The friction plates were in the proper order as well. I proceeded to soak the friction discs and separator plates in kerosene and cleaned everything up with a soft tooth brush. There was some sticky black substance present on the friction discs. Not saying this had anything to do with my problem but I cleaned everything up anyway. Then I re-soaked the friction discs in 20 weight motor oil instead of the 20-50 Castrol GTX that I used in the first soak yesterday. I carefully re-assembled and had what looked like proper clutch / de-clutch action. I started the bike on the center stand and warmed it up to full operating temperature while working the clutch lever multiple times all seemed to be operating as it should so I took a short test ride and sure enough all was well. I really don't know what I did wrong but I'm not complaining. Maybe I should have fully warmed it up yesterday before checking for proper clutch action? Also, I found that it was much easier to install the clutch boss wire ring with the front right side tupperware completely removed. If I ever do this procedure again I will have a spare wire on hand as $13 isn't a deal breaker.

During my short test ride shifting seemed about the same as I recall when I first bought the bike and rode from Kalispell, MT to the Oregon Coast where I live. The shift from neutral to fist still has a clunk to it which i think is pretty normal for these bikes. My neighbors 2015 does the same thing. If I pull in the clutch and wait maybe 10 seconds before shifting to first there is no clunk. Kind of reminds me of an R1100RSL I know.

I really don't know what to think of the friction discs being so dry with only the first and last disc being wet with oil. Maybe Yamaha should call this a parched clutch rather than a wet clutch?

Anyway, thanks to all of you guys for your helpful suggestions and support. Don't know what i would do without this forum, it's as good as it gets.

 

[Donal]

"The shift from neutral to first still has a clunk to it which i think is pretty normal for these bikes. My neighbors 2015 does the same thing. If I pull in the clutch and wait maybe 10 seconds before shifting to first there is no clunk"

I find that pulling in the clutch and giving the throttle a 'quick blip' eliminates the clunk.............

 

[Fred W]

Glad that you got it sorted out. Just chalk that one up as a PFM (Pure F'n Miracle).

For some unknown reason, my 2014 doesn't kerchunk into first the way my 2005 always did, and the way I hear the majority of other FJRs doing from a stop. I did take the 2005 apart some time after I first bought it to investigate why it was happening, believing that it was caused by excessive clutch drag. I found no cause, and it has continued doing it to this day, and always shifted perfectly at all other times.

On the 2014 it hasn't really done the kerchunk at all since new. Very rarely will it clunk, even when the bike is stone cold and I shift immediately from N to 1st. I've also had that clutch completely apart when I upgraded to the Slipper Assist 2016+ type clutch (including replacing all of the clutch plates with new) and it continues to be kerchunk-less. I like that, but cannot explain why it is that way.

Maybe the input side of the transmission of the 2014 has more rotational drag and so is spinning down, and not freewheeling, with the clutch is disengaged?

 

[jammess]

PFM?? I'll store that one for future use/reference...lol..lol.. Have thought more about this and the only thing I noticed when I took the clutch stack apart the second time was the slightly rounded edges on the steel separator plates kind of like you see on a typical flat washer if you look close. I was careful to have all the rounded edges facing outward on re-assembly. That's kind of straw grasping I know.

I'll try the quick throttle blip trick and see what happens.

Morning Fred, The input side of the trans spinning down might be the answer and explain why waiting about 10 seconds before shifting to 1st seems to eliminate the clunk. Well, maybe 5 seconds.

 

[Laser Dude]

Jammess, I had the same issue. I put mine back together and it didn't work. I think it ended up being the ring in that plate that bolts on at the end, it wasn't exactly over the shaft. When I took it apart and took that last retainer plate off and and put it back on, it slipped up on the shaft and I think that's what I figured out was wrong. I'd have to go back and look for my older post from the summer. I think I'm remembering that right. You might have had the same issue and it popped into place once you tried it a couple of times. The first couple of rides, I thought it was a waste of my time because I didn't notice it being any different. Then the more I rode it, the more I noticed how much smoother it had gotten.

 

[jammess]

Afternoon Laser Dude, Actually the same thing happened to me first time I reassembled. The clutch lever would not go all the way to the handlebar. I figured it out pretty quick but still had a problem and could not de-clutch so I took it apart, cleaned everything and carefully re-assembled and all was well. Could have been as previous person posted the installation of that nasty to install retainer wire. Ahhh..one of life's mysteries.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

The clunk comes from here,this thing works as an absorbent and located behind the clutch housing and it is pretty normal..Hits metal to metal the N.2 to N.3 in microfiche https://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/2004/FJR1300ABS+-+FJR1300AS/MIDDLE+DRIVE+GEAR/parts.html ,when you go into first gear or when you open or close the throttle.

 

[Fred W]

I do not think so, Mihalis. The object in your photo is the Middle Drive Gear. It's purpose is to create a 90- degree drive transfer, allow a small change in gear ratio, and the spring is there to help absorb some of the drive-line shock, since this is a shaft driven bike with no "cush-drive" possibility like on a chain drive. That assembly only receives drive line torque when the clutch has already been let out and we are delivering torque to the rear wheel.

The source of the clunk or kerchunk, when shifting from N to 1st is further up stream in the power train. It occurs when the gear dogs of the spinning and freewheeling drive side of the transmission engage suddenly with the stationary driven side that is attached to the stationary rear wheel through that middle gear and final drive.

 

[HotRodZilla]

It kerchunks to let you know how strong it is and to remind you it wants to GO.

Do I have to figure everything out?

 

[Mihalis fjr]

I do not think so, Mihalis. The object in your photo is the Middle Drive Gear. It's purpose is to create a 90- degree drive transfer, allow a small change in gear ratio, and the spring is there to help absorb some of the drive-line shock, since this is a shaft driven bike with no "cush-drive" possibility like on a chain drive. That assembly only receives drive line torque when the clutch has already been let out and we are delivering torque to the rear wheel.
The source of the clunk or kerchunk, when shifting from N to 1st is further up stream in the power train. It occurs when the gear dogs of the spinning and freewheeling drive side of the transmission engage suddenly with the stationary driven side that is attached to the stationary rear wheel through that middle gear and final drive.

I am not sure 100%,but was my thought..

 

[BanjoBoy]

Prolly wouldn't be a bad idea to bleed the clutch system now. :wink:wink:

 

[Bill Lumberg]

My '14 kerchunks into first. I know I have to leave the clutch pulled in for a bit if I'm feeling super sensitive and don't want a kerchunk right then.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Really,what means the word ''kerchunks''..??