Error Code 12 - Crankshaft Position Sensor (actually the Starter Motor)

[JamesK]

Went for a ride early this morning, stopped at the top of Mt. Keira to take a pic and when I tried to start the bike nothing happened. Code 12 was displayed on the LCD panel and she would not kick over.

I always carry a cheatsheet of the diag error codes with me so I could identify code 12 as the Crankshaft Position Sensor. According to the cheatsheet the bike should not run or run badly, but since I was on a hill I decided to try and jump start it, and the bike started ran fine. So the issue at least out on the road was Starter related, and I figured I'm only about 80 km from home so will try and get back under my own steam just need to keep her running...

Got home and started searching the FJRForum, there have been a few Code 12 posts and I used the info to confirm that my CPS is ok (reading 527 ohms at around 22* C).

I have also confirmed the following:

- battery ok and charged

- fuses all ok

- CPS reads in spec (527 ohms)

- Cleared any error codes stored in 60/61

- Confirmed that the On/Off switch is working and turned to On

- Confirmed that the side stand and gear position sensors are working correctly

I pulled out the starter motor and when I opened it up I found the mess in the pics below. I have another starter that I had swapped out the brushes in and cleaned up the armature so I tested it on the bench and it seems to spin well and only draws around 9 Amps once it starts moving so I installed it.

Unfortunately when I press the starter button I still only hear a click from the starter relay, but no action from the starter motor. I checked and there is no +12v being transferred to the "switched" side of the starter relay when I press the engine start button.

I reinstalled the tank and again with the ignition on jumpered the two +ve posts on the Starter Relay and the bike started fine and cleared the Code 12 from the LCD display which as I understand will only clear once the engine starts/runs normally. I wanted to be sure that it would not come back, which it didn't after I jumped the bike.

So it seems like I also need to replace the Starter Relay as I guess the stress the failed Starter Motor put on it burnt the contacts? Sadly this starter only has about 90k miles on it as I bought it new when my original starter failed at around 160k miles.

This is not a cheap part, especially after I pay for shipping to Australia so just wanted to get some confirmation/opinions from the experts before I order a new Starter Relay.

Thanks.

 

[RossKean]

OEM starter relay from parts placed is less than $70 and a search on the part on eBay finds numerous solutions under $20

Found a knock-off from China for $8.36 that says free international shipping but you might have to wait for it (and you might get what you pay for).

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Starter-Solenoid-Relay-4YR-81940-00-00-fit-for-Yamaha-YFM-660-Grizzly-400-Kodiak-/142089245851?hash=item21152dd49b:g2oAAOSwU-pXtQgw#shpCntId

I assume this is the part? 4YR-81940-02-00 That same relay is used in lots of Yamaha stuff.

Would it cost that much to ship to Australia or am I misinterpreting your needs?

 

[JamesK]

OEM starter relay from parts placed is less than $70 and a search on the part on eBay finds numerous solutions under $20Found a knock-off from China for $8.36 that says free international shipping but you might have to wait for it (and you might get what you pay for).

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Starter-Solenoid-Relay-4YR-81940-00-00-fit-for-Yamaha-YFM-660-Grizzly-400-Kodiak-/142089245851?hash=item21152dd49b:g2oAAOSwU-pXtQgw#shpCntId

I assume this is the part? 4YR-81940-02-00 That same relay is used in lots of Yamaha stuff.

Would it cost that much to ship to Australia or am I misinterpreting your needs?

Yes, that's the correct part number, I found a knock off on AliExpress, but yes up to 40 days to deliver. Like you said Ross, this relay is used on many Yamaha vehicles but still buying in Oz is a major rip off, so still cheaper to buy in the US and ship to Oz

I'll order from Partzilla, just want to make sure my diagnosis/conclusion is correct.

 

[RossKean]

Found it for $132 (Aus) more local to you.

https://www.wimmeramotorcycle.com.au

 

[JamesK]

Found it for $132 (Aus) more local to you.https://www.wimmeramotorcycle.com.au

Yep, that's the cheapest in Oz, vs. about $82 delivered from the US

 

[RossKean]

Any idea why a failed starter relay would throw a fault code 12?

 

[JamesK]

Any idea why a failed starter relay would throw a fault code 12?

Starter Relay and Starter Motor, but no clue as to why/how it generated a code 12.

 

[Geezer]

I can only guess that the combined draw of a bad relay and starter caused some voltage fluctuations which looked to the ECU as a code 12. It couldn't hurt to look over the wires and connectors for something loose or corroded while you wait for the new relay.

That armature and field look pretty beat up. Are the bearings worn enough to allow them to bang into each other?

 

[mcatrophy]

Any idea why a failed starter relay would throw a fault code 12?

Starter Relay and Starter Motor, but no clue as to why/how it generated a code 12.

My guess would be the ECU thinks it's turning the motor, but it doesn't get the expected signal from the crankshaft position sensor.

 

[RossKean]

Just a thought - did you check the fuses in the relay?

One or both might have toasted when you had the high current draw from the bad starter motor. You could still get "clicking" because the front side would not be affected (coil is activated and contacts might close properly), just the high current back side would be on the fuses (I think).

On the other hand, the contacts may be burned from high current starts.

 

[want2ride]

I may be reading this wrong but I see it will not kick in unless you jump it. If it was the relay I would think jumping it would not make a difference as the relay is bad unless you are bypassing the relay.

 

[RossKean]

I may be reading this wrong but I see it will not kick in unless you jump it. If it was the relay I would think jumping it would not make a difference as the relay is bad unless you are bypassing the relay.

He jumpered the posts on the relay, not on the battery. Effectively by-passes the relay.

 

[JamesK]

Just a thought - did you check the fuses in the relay?One or both might have toasted when you had the high current draw from the bad starter motor. You could still get "clicking" because the front side would not be affected (coil is activated and contacts might close properly), just the high current back side would be on the fuses (I think).On the other hand, the contacts may be burned from high current starts.

Yep, checked both fuses although one is just a spare.

 

[JamesK]

I think I'll hook up one of those battery switches to jumper the starter relay to enable me to use the bike while I await the part to arrive from the US.

Battery Isolation Switch

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/111808332803?chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com.au%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F111808332803%25253Fchn%25253Dps%252520%2526itemid%253D111808332803%2526targetid%253D308876590714%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9056932%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D760806200%2526adgroupid%253D40461145432%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-308876590714%2526abcId%253D973836%2526merchantid%253D9736412%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjwt6fHBRDtm9O8xPPHq4gBEiQAdxotvHAo_6dWBpy0jrlkSiEWkXzg1BTlFweVP4W5n0DEvqcaAouv8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1198014632343

 

[RossKean]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[JamesK]

I lucked out and found a used Starter Relay at a local bike wreckers, AU$45 and the bike is running again.

I know of few more pleasant and satisfying sounds than that of a previously dead bike roaring back to life.

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions.

 

[un4gvn]

Any idea why a failed starter relay would throw a fault code 12?

When you press the start button, the ECU expects the engine to begin turning over (starter motor). The ECU was expecting to see a signal from the Crankshaft Position Sensor as the engine rotates but never received the signal because the starter was't running. Therefore code 12 "no normal signals" were received.

 

[Bounce]

Glad you're getting things working. I've sold some stuff to FJR people in Aus and the shipping nearly doubled the cost of the items. I was shocked. They weren't.

I'm wondering why you are going through starters like this? Are you in a high sea/salt air area? Could that be it? Would 6 month PM on terminal/relay contacts help (clean of corrosion, pack with dielectric grease)?

 

[mcatrophy]

Any idea why a failed starter relay would throw a fault code 12?

When you press the start button, the ECU expects the engine to begin turning over (starter motor). The ECU was expecting to see a signal from the Crankshaft Position Sensor as the engine rotates but never received the signal because the starter was't running. Therefore code 12 "no normal signals" were received.

Repeat!