Evidence of Performance Gains

[Wicked Webby]

Donations...

For a couple of dyno pulls?

Hahahahahahaha!!

Getting people to cough it up for some dyno time...

Pickles,

You musta be related to dat Tom Sawyer some wheres down the line!!

Forget the mods...

You onto something here!!!!

Now thats some good work,

WW

 

[UselessPickles]

Donations...
For a couple of dyno pulls?

Hahahahahahaha!!

I need more than just a couple dyno pulls to finalize the tuning on my bike. I need to first determine what AFR will give me max power at WOT, then set up the Motty to use that AFR for WOT and do several dyno pulls until the Motty adjusts itself for that AFR across the entire RPM range at WOT. It could be 2-3 hours of dyno time to get that part done (including set-up time, cool down periods, etc.)

Donations would primarily help pay for the dyno pulls for a stock FJR and feed lunch to its rider. It was offered to me; I didn't ask. And I will accept to help cover the additional cost of getting a valid baseline to compare against (that's what the forum members are demanding).

 

[UselessPickles]

Please direct any further discussion of the upcoming dyno session here: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=115589

We already have a volunteer to provide a stock FJR for baseline measurement

 

[Skully]

Leave that air box alone!! :dribble:

WhatRya? Crazy??

What of - people carving up that air box with reckless abandon?

 

[Andyfjr]

Here is some data from my two mapping sessions from Dynojet on the same day.

First mapping session was to demonstrate the power improvement over my standard 2007 fjr after fitting the powercommander.

Second mapping session was after the Holeshot headers were fitted.

Ive attached three dyno sheets indicating afrs, power and torque. It was very illuminating the results I attained.

My bike has stock airfilter and stock silencers. The only new parts fitted were Power commander III USB and decat headers.

Mpg after mods 35mpg @ 80 mph motorway cruising.

The throttle response is fantastic with no hesitation, which was my primary demand from these modifications.

I understand even from my laymans perspective what the Dyno printouts indicate, discuss if you wish.

Dyno printouts

Dyno

Dyno1

Andy

 

[UselessPickles]

Leave that air box alone!! :dribble:
WhatRya? Crazy??

What of - people carving up that air box with reckless abandon?

I might agree that Wicked Webby carved his air box up with reckless abandon because he didn't know what the results would be. But now that he's proven that there are significant gains to be had, it's quite purposeful to carve up the air box

 

[UselessPickles]

Here is some data from my two mapping sessions from Dynojet on the same day.
First mapping session was to demonstrate the power improvement over my standard 2007 fjr after fitting the powercommander.

Second mapping session was after the Holeshot headers were fitted.

Ive attached three dyno sheets indicating afrs, power and torque. It was very illuminating the results I attained.

My bike has stock airfilter and stock silencers. The only new parts fitted were Power commander III USB and decat headers.

Mpg after mods 35mpg @ 80 mph motorway cruising.

The throttle response is fantastic with no hesitation, which was my primary demand from these modifications.

I understand even from my laymans perspective what the Dyno printouts indicate, discuss if you wish.

Dyno printouts

Dyno

Dyno1

Andy

Could you explain the 3 different dyno charts? The first looks like it's from a cruiser. What are the two runs on each chart? To me, it looks like each chart is showing before/after results for custom PCIII mapping. Do you have one that compares your custom-mapped stock bike to your custom-mapped bike with Holeshot headers? You later mention "decat headers". Are you referring to the Holeshots, or a de-catted stock header?

 

[UselessPickles]

I read the description of each run more carefully now.

Looks like the "Dyno" link is showing before/after custom PCIII mapping with Holeshot headers: https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1133/082602.jpg

This shows that the bike is running too rich with stock fueling and Holeshot headers (not enough airflow), so mixture was leaned out by the custom mapping.

The "Dyno1" link is comparing stock + custom mapped PCIII vs. Holeshot header + custom mapped PCIII: https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4618/082618.jpg

This shows that Holeshot header + stock pipes makes less power at almost every RPM as compared to a stock bike with a custom mapped PCIII.

The "Dyno Printouts" link looks like a Harley ridden by someone with Parkinson's Disease: https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5773/082543.jpg

Looks like the conclusion is that the Holeshot headers were not designed to be used with the restrictive stock mufflers.

 

[Skully]

Leave that air box alone!! :dribble:
WhatRya? Crazy??

What of - people carving up that air box with reckless abandon?

I might agree that Wicked Webby carved his air box up with reckless abandon because he didn't know what the results would be. But now that he's proven that there are significant gains to be had, it's quite purposeful to carve up the air box

Well, somebody had to do it! :yahoo:

After reading the Wicked 1s post, My bike's air box starting making a strange moaning sound. It got worse ya know, and after a time I did see that the only answer was surgery.

All better now.

 

[Andyfjr]

I read the description of each run more carefully now.
Looks like the "Dyno" link is showing before/after custom PCIII mapping with Holeshot headers: https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1133/082602.jpg

This shows that the bike is running too rich with stock fueling and Holeshot headers (not enough airflow), so mixture was leaned out by the custom mapping. The basic map for a totally standard header and exhaust is not suited at all to the holeshot headers and alot of adjustment is required to achieve the 13.8 afr, but there is no significant improvement anywhere across the rev range over stock setup. I conclude that the standard setup is pretty good and all that is required to make the FJR a good responsive bike is to have a custom PCiii mapping session, nothing more. However it will be interesting to see if a custom map with a full aftermarket system gives significant improvements over what my bike did in standard trim with a custom map.

The "Dyno1" link is comparing stock + custom mapped PCIII vs. Holeshot header + custom mapped PCIII: https://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4618/082618.jpg

This shows that Holeshot header + stock pipes makes less power at almost every RPM as compared to a stock bike with a custom mapped PCIII. The way I understand it, is the decat (Holeshot headers) dont perform aswell as the original downpipes across the rev range, especially at low rpm where a great deal of torque is lost. I didnt want noisy mufflers, just wanted to unleash a few more horsepower, unfortunately that didnt work. Nothing really lost, it was an experiment which will hopefully help others going forward.

The "Dyno Printouts" link looks like a Harley ridden by someone with Parkinson's Disease: https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5773/082543.jpg The standard bike has very lean fueling, then the power commander is fitted and setup, indicates 13.8 afr and the much improved power across the range. I dont know why the scaling is different, but there is some significant improvement.

Looks like the conclusion is that the Holeshot headers were not designed to be used with the restrictive stock mufflers. Reading other members posts on aftermarket mufflers, gave me the impression that they were more for asthetic appearance and noise over substantive performance gains, just my slant on the comments from other members.

Andy

 

[RadioHowie]

My bike's air box starting making a strange moaning sound.

Bustanut whisperin' dirty words in it's ear?

 

[UselessPickles]

I read the description of each run more carefully now. The "Dyno Printouts" link looks like a Harley ridden by someone with Parkinson's Disease: https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5773/082543.jpg The standard bike has very lean fueling, then the power commander is fitted and setup, indicates 13.8 afr and the much improved power across the range. I dont know why the scaling is different, but there is some significant improvement.

I figured it out... that dyno chart is for 20% throttle. That's why it looks like a dyno chart from a cruiser . The reason you got such big gains at 20% throttle is because 20% throttle was purposefully lean for fuel efficiency. You won't get such dramatic improvements at 100% throttle with a custom map on a stock bike.

 

[Fastfar]

Wheww...read through this thread with interest but don't have the background to truly understand it all...I did come away with some conclusions:

FJR riders like to farkle their FJR's...(no surprise there)

Performance farkles as noted do offer an increase in performance...(I certainly hope so)

Exactly how much performance increase is an open question...(a little, some, a lot???)

These farkles may or may not be legal in my state...(non-DOT exhaust, airbox mods, computer adjustments to Fuel Ratios)

I missed the part referencing how much these farkles cost in time and money...(a little, some, a lot, a lot more)

I also missed the part about WHY, but that's just me, I still can't ride this bike to it's max performance, not on the roads I prefer to ride where exceeding 80 mph is likely fatal...(on very twisty roads it's the rider not the bike...)

Final wet blanket comment: With some idjit Cali legislature member proposing to SMOG test motorycles, if the OP lived in Cali all of these mods would have to be reversed or the bike would fail SMOG inspection and would not be able to be registered in California...(bastids)

 

[UselessPickles]

FJR riders like to farkle their FJR's...(no surprise there)

Yes

Exactly how much performance increase is an open question...(a little, some, a lot???)

This will be solved in a couple weeks when I get back-to-back comparisons between my bike and a stock bike on the dyno.

These farkles may or may not be legal in my state...(non-DOT exhaust, airbox mods, computer adjustments to Fuel Ratios)

That's pretty much true of any mod that makes the engine respond more smoothly or powerfully.

I missed the part referencing how much these farkles cost in time and money...(a little, some, a lot, a lot more)

A lot, plus some more.

Holeshot header: ~$600

Ceramic coating: ~$240

Remus Hexacones: ~$950

Motty AFR Tuner + O2 sensor: ~$650

Air box mod supplies: ~$20

Total: ~$2460 :blink:

Total time installing all of the above is unknown because I did it in a couple stages with some other big mods mixed in, like Audiovox Cruise Control. Maybe a total of about 16 hours if you did it all at the same time at a relaxed pace? Air box mod and Motty installation are the time hogs.

I also missed the part about WHY, but that's just me, I still can't ride this bike to it's max performance, not on the roads I prefer to ride where exceeding 80 mph is likely fatal...(on very twisty roads it's the rider not the bike...)

Why not? Extra power is easy (and fun) to use in a straight line. Freeway passing power is much improved, so it's not all useless performance gains. It's also not all raw power, but also smoother power delivery (especially going from deceleration to acceleration) to make riding more enjoyable and make it easier to make use of the performance around corners.

As for the "money could be put to better use" argument, it all depends on what you want to spend your money on. I just happened to have quite a bit extra bike money due to an insurance payout from my accident last October. I was able to use the money to buy a new '08 FJR (got a good deal on it), replace riding gear that needed replacing, add all the mods, and I still have a small amount left over. I received insurance payout on some items (like my Garmin Zumo and riding pants) because they were lightly damaged. I got full retail price on them (didn't pay nearly that much for them), but didn't use the money to replace them because they're just cosmetically damaged.

Final wet blanket comment: With some idjit Cali legislature member proposing to SMOG test motorycles, if the OP lived in Cali all of these mods would have to be reversed or the bike would fail SMOG inspection and would not be able to be registered in California...(bastids)

Good thing I don't live in Cali

 

[Fastfar]

....

I missed the part referencing how much these farkles cost in time and money...(a little, some, a lot, a lot more)

A lot, plus some more.

Holeshot header: ~$600

Ceramic coating: ~$240

Remus Hexacones: ~$950

Motty AFR Tuner + O2 sensor: ~$650

Air box mod supplies: ~$20

Total: ~$2460 :blink:

Total time installing all of the above is unknown because I did it in a couple stages with some other big mods mixed in, like Audiovox Cruise Control. Maybe a total of about 16 hours if you did it all at the same time at a relaxed pace? Air box mod and Motty installation are the time hogs.

I sure don't begrudge you the time and money, wish I had more money and less time right now (recently unemployed) and as I like to ride fast I can relate to more power...but I can't use much more on the backroads, and I avoid Slab like it's the plague...around here slab means LEO and LASER, and performance awards, stuff like that...damn that Nominal Cruising Speed thing all FJR's seem to have, even in stock configuration...

Look forward to the final results when you get them...

 

[UselessPickles]

No official results yet (hopefully in another week or two), but I have some improved unofficial results. I think I was getting some false readings of the O2 sensor because my air injection block-off caps were leaking (allowing extra fresh air into the exhaust stream). Now that I've fixed that problem and tweaked the target AFR's a bit more, I have a new record for 80-100mph in 5th gear...

3.07s! (as compared to the 4.36s reported for stock)

I don't care how much anyone says that it's a completely invalid comparison due to different bikes/riders/weather/etc.; that's a huge difference! It's even about a half second better than my own previous best (and my previous best was on a cooler day, so it's not because of temperature difference). Most of that gain is likely from the Wicked Webby air box mod, which shows big improvements on the dyno in the same RPM range.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Pickles,

Looking forward to seeing the results of your Stock Vs Modified dyno pulls.

Ride safe,

WW

 

[Spook]

Wheww...read through this thread with interest but don't have the background to truly understand it all...I did come away with some conclusions:
FJR riders like to farkle their FJR's...(no surprise there)

Performance farkles as noted do offer an increase in performance...(I certainly hope so)

Exactly how much performance increase is an open question...(a little, some, a lot???)

These farkles may or may not be legal in my state...(non-DOT exhaust, airbox mods, computer adjustments to Fuel Ratios)

I missed the part referencing how much these farkles cost in time and money...(a little, some, a lot, a lot more)

I also missed the part about WHY, but that's just me, I still can't ride this bike to it's max performance, not on the roads I prefer to ride where exceeding 80 mph is likely fatal...(on very twisty roads it's the rider not the bike...)

Final wet blanket comment: With some idjit Cali legislature member proposing to SMOG test motorycles, if the OP lived in Cali all of these mods would have to be reversed or the bike would fail SMOG inspection and would not be able to be registered in California...(bastids)

That is the one thing that gives me the last laugh when they start rubbing it in that they are riding and I still got a ton of snow here.

 

[Andyfjr]

I decided to put the original downpipes back on and load the map that was done for my bike on OE exhaust. I now have the achieved 43 mpg with spirited riding. The bike still has excellent on/off throttle response

Andy

 

[UselessPickles]

It sounds like you have improved your power. Certainly you have done the basic things that should increase performance. I use a G-Tech in my car and on my FJR, the G-Tech is another fast sampling performance analyzer. It works fairly well in my car but not so repeatable or accurate on the motorcycle. I'm with 2WTigger, show me a time slip or two. If you can show a 1/4 mile slip with an ET of 10.7 or mph over 125 and I will

to you! That would be a really, really stout performance increase. A real, true 5% performance increase with just bolt-ons is major. A 0.5 second improvement at the drags would be huge and beyond most typical results -- 15% with just bolt-ons is approaching the Twilight Zone.
So, get thy butt to a strip and let's see what the real world serves up. And BTW, you will enjoy the shit out of the drag racing experience too. Call the track first and find out what kind of gear you are required to wear and what, if any modifications you need to have installed on your bike. My local IHRA track requires that I have a kill lanyard and certain types of riding gear. Awaiting results...

to me!

Today I got a 10.894s @ 126.75mph

That's and 0.466s (4.1%) and 6.75mph (5.6%) improvement over my previous almost-stock bike.

The larger percentage improvements I mentioned before were just within specific RPM ranges (mid-range), which probably contributed quite a bit to the overall gains at the strip (mostly with the launch and initial run up through 1st to the higher RPMs).

I'll post a separate thread about the today's drag strip experience with video later.

-------- edit ----------

Here's the thread I promised: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=119023