Fast twisty road, cold weather & pavement. FJR VS tricked-out M5

[Leskid]

I can't wrap my brain around this.

Yesterday was a balmy 12 degrees (53F) so for a late season sunday ride, instead of showing up on his R1200S, my riding buddy shows-up in his car :glare: . Not that this is a drag for a ride up north, he has an 04 BMW M5 with a pile of $$$ thrown-in on the suspension, lowering, wheels, pirelli zeros etc... He regularly takes both his car & bike to the track to have fun. While I'm a respectable shredder on my feej, on cold roads where I won't get hard parts touching down like they tend to when it's nice out, I'd think that a car of that caliber with a driver who can actually use it should definitely walk away from me anywhere except in a straight line.

That's what I always thought.... right? This is my question.

We headed-up north to one of our favorite 20-ish km stretches of tight, fast twisty road and started running back & forth. Good times.... After a couple of runs on the bike, I parked the FJR and had him take me through there in the M5. It was actually frightening. As expected, those tires, suspension, brakes, 400+ HP and an experienced owner pushed that cage through there with G forces in all directions that I was 'very uncomfortable' with. I was torn between thrill and fear. As I silently prayed to make it back to my bike, there's no way I could imagine coming through there on the feej as hard, even on warm pavement.

Whenever the road was at all straight for a couple hundred yards, even an M5 is no match for the FJR as expected. Where it got confusing was taking the curves. I was only riding at 7-8 out of 10 because of the cold asphalt (ie leaving around 1/2" of chicken strip). Compared to shitting my pants from the lateral Gs in the passenger seat of the car, riding the FJR at that pace felt like sitting in my lazy boy at home???? Bringing the FJRs pegs to the ground (on roads I know well) isnt even remotely intimidating, just fun. I don't feel Gs like I do in a fast car in the corners. So based on the visceral experience, I always thought a real 'car' can ride fast curves, faster than a bike.

I'm convinced that next spring, if we repeat that excercise on warm pavement, I could stretch-out a lead and lose him (or not. Right now, he's in the process of trading-up to the newer M5 - the E60 SMG with the 507hp V10)

Is it just a comfort thing? The bike just doesn't thrill me anymore? It certainly doesn't bring-about the same thrill/fear as riding in a car. So back to my question: have I alway been wrong about fast cars in the curves being faster than bikes?

... and no, it's not friday yet

 

[Bungie]

Depends on the road.. er.. track

A car will out handle a bike, but the bike will take the car in acceleration and braking. Most important of all, is the rider and driver.

 

[FJRPierre]

>>>....experienced owner pushed that cage through there with G forces in all directions that I was 'very uncomfortable' with. I was torn between thrill and fear. As I silently prayed to make it back to my bike, there's no way I could imagine coming through there on the feej as hard, even on warm pavement.

aw you're just getting old. Wait a bit and you'll find yourself being queasy in a fast Sienna ... uke:

 

[UselessPickles]

The difference in feeling you describe is due the difference between 2 and 4 wheels. A motorcycle leans into the corner such that the combination of the lateral forces and gravity pull you straight "down" (relative to your perspective due to the lean angle) onto the seat. A car doesn't lean into the corner, so you you really get to experience the lateral forces as lateral forces (relative to your vertical seating position), and you have to fight to stay in your seat.

That's the main reason I enjoy riding a motorcycle so much.

As for which is faster through curves, it really depends on the car, the bike, how sharp the curves are and how much straight is between the curves (and the driver/rider, of course). Generally, between "equal" bikes and cars, the car will out-corner and out-brake the bike (due to the larger proportion of tire contact patch to vehicle weight), but the bike will out-accelerate the car.

 

[UselessPickles]

... but the bike will take the car in acceleration and braking.

A performance car will brake much better than a bike.

 

[Canadian FJR]

You know that this is going to end all bad.

Canadian FJR

 

[Leskid]

Depends on the road.. er.. track

well you know it. It's that stretch of the 347 between Notre Dame de la Merci and St Come that we took on the way to Mauricie this summer. So now that you know, it's all big fast curves, elevation changes and almost no straights. Plus, I consider my buddy Steve (one of the many Steve's, Steve, remember?) to be an infinitely more skilled driver / rider than me.

aw you're just getting old. Wait a bit and you'll find yourself being queasy in a fast Sienna ... uke:

LMAO

In your defense Pierre, there was a UK englishman at the wheel and you didn't actually lose your lunch. So you're not THAT old

Generally, between "equal" bikes and cars, the car will out-corner and out-brake the bike (due to the larger proportion of tire contact patch to vehicle weight), but the bike will out-accelerate the car.

And that is the source of confusion. There aren't many straight stretches to play catch-up with the bike's engine. With a better driver in a car of that caliber, I would have expected to be trailing behind further and further behind. But nope. Maybe I just don't suck as bad as I thought......

 

[wfooshee]

Contact patch is everything!! Cars have traction all over bikes, but bikes have power-to-weight. The only reason we can even think about riding hard is that our tires are soft enough (and thus grippy enough) to run just a few thousand miles, rather than the 20, 30, or even 40 thousand that cars expect to get on a set.

Now in racing, add aero downforce and you get a monstrous difference!

 

[Bungie]

aw you're just getting old. Wait a bit and you'll find yourself being queasy in a fast Sienna ... uke:

BAHAHA!

 

[Bungie]

well you know it. It's that stretch of the 347 between Notre Dame de la Merci and St Come that we took on the way to Mauricie this summer. So now that you know, it's all big fast curves, elevation changes and almost no straights. Plus, I consider my buddy Steve (one of the many Steve's, Steve, remember?) to be an infinitely more skilled driver / rider than me.

Mmmm 347. A hundred Steve's agree, that is a great road!

The only reason we can even think about riding hard is that our tires are soft enough (and thus grippy enough) to run just a few thousand miles, rather than the 20, 30, or even 40 thousand that cars expect to get on a set.

Pssst. Car tires are softer than bike tires.

 

[wfooshee]

Pssst. Car tires are softer than bike tires.

Not even remotely. Sidewalls are much softer, yes, but that's not where the traction is, or the wear. Tread compound is much softer on bike tires. That's not to say the carcass is softer, or the ride feel, I'm talking about the rubber at the road.

 

[Bungie]

Not even remotely. Sidewalls are much softer, yes, but that's not where the traction is, or the wear. Tread compound is much softer on bike tires. That's not to say the carcass is softer, or the ride feel, I'm talking about the rubber at the road.

Suggest you do the research.

 

[Auburn]

Pssst. Car tires are softer than bike tires.

Not even remotely. Sidewalls are much softer, yes, but that's not where the traction is, or the wear. Tread compound is much softer on bike tires. That's not to say the carcass is softer, or the ride feel, I'm talking about the rubber at the road.

Depends on the tires in use for both

 

[RadioHowie]

Pssst. Car tires are softer than bike tires.

Well THAT explains why I'm on my second set of tires on my 115,000 mile Del Sol, and go through tires on my bikes every 5,000-7,000 miles!

I need softer tires on my bikes!

 

[Fred W]

I'm inclined to agree with Bungie. Remember that the wear of a car tire is spread across the entire surface of the flat tread. A bike tire contact patch is relatively small, and so the friction is far more concentrated, causing the tire to wear faster. I think if you take a durometer to the rubber on a MC tire and a car tire you'd probably find that the rubber is harder on the bike tire.

But that is strictly a guess based on the above logic.

 

[RadioHowie]

I'm inclined to agree with.....

You always were an argumentative old coot on a bass boat blue scoot.

 

[Leskid]

you know what sucks?

I could post videos, shot from my bike and from the M5 and you could REALLY tell by the sound of my engine working and the car maintaining the lead that this BMW hauls *** And you can tell by the horizon tilting that he's also tearing through the curves.

Problem is both angles are filmed on gopro hero wides, whose resulting file format are AVIs. But with windows moviemaker, it crashes the instant I try to import one of the AVIs for editing.

So I can only upload long, unedited clips.... anyone know how to edit clips from a gopro hero?

 

[RadioHowie]

you know what sucks?I could post videos, shot from my bike and from the M5 and you could REALLY tell by the sound of my engine working and the car maintaining the lead that this BMW hauls *** And you can tell by the horizon tilting that he's also tearing through the curves.

Problem is both angles are filmed on gopro hero wides, whose resulting file format are AVIs. But with windows moviemaker, it crashes the instant I try to import one of the AVIs for editing.

So I can only upload long, unedited clips.... anyone know how to edit clips from a gopro hero?

Go HERE and download VirtualDub. It's free.

You can load your AVI into VirtualDub. It's a timeline editor, where you can mark "in" and "out" points and save segments, to edit out junk, then upload the segments, or use the program to re-combine the edited pieces together.

 

[Leskid]

Go HERE and download VirtualDub. It's free.
You can load your AVI into VirtualDub. It's a timeline editor, where you can mark "in" and "out" points and save segments, to edit out junk, then upload the segments, or use the program to re-combine the edited pieces together.

awesome - thanks! I'll check it out when I get home from the office.