LAGO RUNNER
Well-known member
Anybody using this stuff, specificly formulated for the FJR. I was suprised when my local dealer did not know it existed.
final drive oil
- Thread starter LAGO RUNNER
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Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
Anybody using this stuff, specificly formulated for the FJR. I was suprised when my local dealer did not know it existed.
Jagermeister
Well-known member
ponyfool
Well-known member
IMO, a dealer is only as worthwhile as the tard you are speaking to.
Anybody using this stuff, specificly formulated for the FJR. I was suprised when my local dealer did not know it existed.
I haven't up till now, but will be next time. It is apparently some damn fine gear oil shizzat.
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
I use it. Have also used the Mobil1 75W-90 from your local auto parts store. Much cheaper.
The Yammie special whale **** specifically forumlated for the FJR is pricey, and unfortnately, it's not uncommon for dealers to not even know it exists, much less stock it. Many a forum member have been sold the normal Yammie gear oil, not knowing any better.
I've gone back to using the special whale **** for no particular reason. If you follow the maintenance schedule, which is like 12k for a change IIRC, then it really doesn't cost all that much in the great scheme of things. I buy some when I make a parts order from my preferred online discount vendor (ZanottiMotors.com). That's when I also get oil filters, air filters, fasteners, and so on. I believe I last paid about $18.50 for a pint the last time I made an order.
The Yammie special whale **** specifically forumlated for the FJR is pricey, and unfortnately, it's not uncommon for dealers to not even know it exists, much less stock it. Many a forum member have been sold the normal Yammie gear oil, not knowing any better.
I've gone back to using the special whale **** for no particular reason. If you follow the maintenance schedule, which is like 12k for a change IIRC, then it really doesn't cost all that much in the great scheme of things. I buy some when I make a parts order from my preferred online discount vendor (ZanottiMotors.com). That's when I also get oil filters, air filters, fasteners, and so on. I believe I last paid about $18.50 for a pint the last time I made an order.
Toecutter
What would DoG do?
Go pound sand, copper!
I use Mobil 1 and change it every other motor oil change. Four changes to a bottle.
I hear if you don't use the Whale **** it will void your Y.E.S.
:lol:
I use Mobil 1 and change it every other motor oil change. Four changes to a bottle.
I hear if you don't use the Whale **** it will void your Y.E.S.
:lol:
RAVENRIDER
Well-known member
I made the mistake of using RED LINE OIL MTL Manual Transmission/Transaxle Lubricant Gear Oil in my 08 FJR and it leaked out past the seal and all over the rear wheel. Not all gear oils are created equal. Replaced it with Yamaha spec and no problems since.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
I was told by a famous dealer in Alabama that Yamaha was now recommending their standard 80W90 final drive lube as used in their ATVs. He did not have any service bulletin or anything. The materials from Yamaha that are available to me recommend the special FJR final drive lube, and so that's what I use.
As pointed out above, the recommended service interval is quite long. I believe that the Gen II interval is to replace it at the 600 mile service, and then again every 16000 miles. So your first bottle of the stuff will last you until 32000 miles at which time you'll need another bottle to take you to 64000.
SkooterG's price on the stuff is the best that I've seen anywhere. I bought a couple of bottles at the $32 retail price and set them with my 10 gallons of Yamalube 20W40 on the shelf in my shop. Same dealer told me that the Kawasaki 20W50 will reduce FJR engine noise and vibration. He said that Kawasaki uses a lot more of the additive that helps the oil stand up to shearing. I dunno.... This one's destined for NEPRT anyway.
As pointed out above, the recommended service interval is quite long. I believe that the Gen II interval is to replace it at the 600 mile service, and then again every 16000 miles. So your first bottle of the stuff will last you until 32000 miles at which time you'll need another bottle to take you to 64000.
SkooterG's price on the stuff is the best that I've seen anywhere. I bought a couple of bottles at the $32 retail price and set them with my 10 gallons of Yamalube 20W40 on the shelf in my shop. Same dealer told me that the Kawasaki 20W50 will reduce FJR engine noise and vibration. He said that Kawasaki uses a lot more of the additive that helps the oil stand up to shearing. I dunno.... This one's destined for NEPRT anyway.
I use it.
Anybody using this stuff, specificly formulated for the FJR. I was suprised when my local dealer did not know it existed.
My local dealer has full shelf of it for about $28 per bottle.
I'll order online next time along with other maintenance supplies.
johnny80s
Turtle Gears
I use the whale ****. Had the dealer change the tires and the final drive fluid at the same time. They charged my 17 bucks to change it so I had them do it. I had more money than time. I think you need a new dealer.
Glad to see you posting again.
Glad to see you posting again.
jim oneill
triplex
couple bucks for a bottle of "Super Tec" gear oil at walmart been using it for 3 years no problems
Spook
Well-known member
Spook
Well-known member
FJRay
Well-known member
You sure can tell Iggy is out riding. This horse is beyond dead. 
my2dogs
Active member
Never use MTL in rear gear. It's a wonder the seals did not swell up and blow lube all over the place. Also the viscosity is very low !!
I use Redline 75/90 REAR GEAR Synthetic lube and never a problem. Has additive for positve rear gears as I use this in late model Corvettes.
I had heard the same thing from a "A" tech at a local Yamaha dealership in Houston. The spec for the viscosity on the ATV oil is 80W90. A quick lesson for those who aren't up on the nomenclature is the "W" after the first number signifies the maximum viscosity permitted at a temperature of 0 degrees F. The upper number is the viscosity at or 212 degrees F.
Someone above asked what the significance was of the latter number and it has to do with film strength at the higher temperatures. Big rigs that haul a lot of weight and experience long pulls see differential temperatures upwards of 300 degrees F. These higher weight formulations guarantee a minimum viscosity at the elevated temperatures. The oil contains extreme pressure additives that contain sulfur and chlorine. These additives react with the steel under high temperature and pressure. The addives are sacraficial in that when they react with the steel surface, they are depleted from the solution. Thus, the reason for changing the differential oil on occasion. They can also become corrosive to yellow metals in the presence of water. The byproduct of the reaction is sufuric and hydrochloric acid. Most formulations counter this with the addition of some detergent which offers some basisity to neutralize any acids formed over time. Thus, another reason to change the differential fluid if you live in a humid climate. Bringing a cold bike into a warm garage will also induce sweating, thus the oil gets wet from condensation formed inside the housing.
There are other forumuations that do not use sulfur and chlorine for the extreme pressure capability. They are usually based on boron chemistry and it is extrmely hydophilic. It will literally scavenge water directly from moist air. I believe Formula + Harley Davidson transmission oil is based on such chemistry. The oil has to be hospitable for wet clutches for use in the Sportster transmission. Sulfur and Chlorine are too strong to guarantee proper friction characteristics for wet clutch systems. I have analyzed new Formula + oil poured directly from a new quart container and fouind it to have in excess of 600 ppm water. 0.2% water in oil ruins the lubricity. Water is an enemy of proper lubrication.
One other thing to clarify, always opt for the higher vis oil if flow at low temperatures isn't a concern. For example choosing a 80W-140 will only cause the differntial to run at a higher temperature which self corrects the viscosity concern since at the higher temperature, the oil becomes less viscous. The one thing you won't have to worry about is insufficient film strength, thus metal-to-metal contact.
Someone above asked what the significance was of the latter number and it has to do with film strength at the higher temperatures. Big rigs that haul a lot of weight and experience long pulls see differential temperatures upwards of 300 degrees F. These higher weight formulations guarantee a minimum viscosity at the elevated temperatures. The oil contains extreme pressure additives that contain sulfur and chlorine. These additives react with the steel under high temperature and pressure. The addives are sacraficial in that when they react with the steel surface, they are depleted from the solution. Thus, the reason for changing the differential oil on occasion. They can also become corrosive to yellow metals in the presence of water. The byproduct of the reaction is sufuric and hydrochloric acid. Most formulations counter this with the addition of some detergent which offers some basisity to neutralize any acids formed over time. Thus, another reason to change the differential fluid if you live in a humid climate. Bringing a cold bike into a warm garage will also induce sweating, thus the oil gets wet from condensation formed inside the housing.
There are other forumuations that do not use sulfur and chlorine for the extreme pressure capability. They are usually based on boron chemistry and it is extrmely hydophilic. It will literally scavenge water directly from moist air. I believe Formula + Harley Davidson transmission oil is based on such chemistry. The oil has to be hospitable for wet clutches for use in the Sportster transmission. Sulfur and Chlorine are too strong to guarantee proper friction characteristics for wet clutch systems. I have analyzed new Formula + oil poured directly from a new quart container and fouind it to have in excess of 600 ppm water. 0.2% water in oil ruins the lubricity. Water is an enemy of proper lubrication.
One other thing to clarify, always opt for the higher vis oil if flow at low temperatures isn't a concern. For example choosing a 80W-140 will only cause the differntial to run at a higher temperature which self corrects the viscosity concern since at the higher temperature, the oil becomes less viscous. The one thing you won't have to worry about is insufficient film strength, thus metal-to-metal contact.
428Cobra
Well-known member
[SIZE=12pt]Dang pacoonass, that was a hell of a lesson on gear oil! [/SIZE]
I take it your in the industry or you needed to educate yourself to protect your equipment.
Do you analyze oil for a living?
:huh: for the most part, but I learned something!!
Thanks
I take it your in the industry or you needed to educate yourself to protect your equipment.
Do you analyze oil for a living?
:huh: for the most part, but I learned something!!
Thanks
mech 1 twa
Well-known member
I've been using Amsoil 75-110 for a little while. Wanted something a little thicker at higher temps.
Full syn. oil. Can't say anything bad about it. Price $13 a quart. Ordered 2 qts. saved a bit on shipping.
Rear wheel used to have small spots of oil, on it. Spline lube or oil I don't know. After switching to thicker stuff no more spots. My $.02 Works for me.
Full syn. oil. Can't say anything bad about it. Price $13 a quart. Ordered 2 qts. saved a bit on shipping.
Rear wheel used to have small spots of oil, on it. Spline lube or oil I don't know. After switching to thicker stuff no more spots. My $.02 Works for me.
I just purchased an '08 FJY last weekend. I know little about the bike, thus the reason for joining the forum. I usually drain the engine oil in a new vehicle between 100 to 300 miles. I've had the oil analyzed and it is usually wet with in excess of 1000 ppm water. I have also noticed, at least down here in Texas, many dealers keep the crated new bikes outside. I never understood how rust would develop on bare metal parts on new bikes on display in the showroom; now I know.
A couple of answers for the previous questions. I've been involve in lubrication chemistry while attending Penn State and actively managed lubrication activities in two lubricant additive manufacturing plants in Houston. I learned much of the chemistry involved in making the different additives, and learned how to apply the additives with the benefit of the research department. They would let me spec the base oil while they specified the additive packages for gather field test data. The test packages were used in plant equipment such as flooded screw compressors, gear reducers & increasers, engines, etc. I was responsible for doing elemental and ferrographical analysis of the used oils for predictive maintenance purposes.
One comment on oil seals. A rubber lip seal typically has a design life of 2000 hours. Having a few spots show-up on the rear wheel signifies that traces of oil are making it past the lip seal. That is a good thing to prolong the life of the seal as long as it isn't making a mess. There are additives that swell buna-N (common rubber used for making lip seals). Synthetic oils are comprised of different types of basestocks. The most common and inexpensive are PAO (Polyalphaolefins) or Group III oils. PAO's are more expensive since they are truly synthetic oils manufactured by reacting decene monomer. Group III oils are mineral oils that are highly refined and hydrogentated to remove double bonds to decrease reactivity. Manufacturers will not state on the synthetic oil containers the type of base stock. In fact, they won't even tell you over the telephone if you call their tech line. PAO is chemically more stable because it is more homogenious (closer in molecular weight) than a Group III. The higher priced oils such as Amsoil are probably PAO's. I suspect the cheaper variety of synthetics such as Shell Rotella are Group III's. Mobil used to never cut quality for price, but they are now owned by Exxon. Mobil still owns probably 90% of the industrial lubrication market even though Exxon is now driving the bus. Exxon's basestock used in their motor oils years ago (Uniflow) used to darken within 1000 miles after an oil change. The dark color is due to the lack of stabilty in the presence of oxygen. It has also been legislated in court that Group III oils can be called synthetic oils even though they are worked over mineral oils. PAO's due exhibit a small degree of seal shinkage. Thus, companies like Amsoil will not sacrifice performance over price and will fortify their PAO packages with proper additives to neuatralize the seal shinkage issue. The same additve used for neutalizing the seal shrinkage makes the buna-N softer and more pliable; thus better sealing. Amsoil published a really good technical paper on "gear oils" recently. One can check it out by going to their site. It compares about 8-10 different brands of mineral and synthetic GL5 rated gear oils. B)
A couple of answers for the previous questions. I've been involve in lubrication chemistry while attending Penn State and actively managed lubrication activities in two lubricant additive manufacturing plants in Houston. I learned much of the chemistry involved in making the different additives, and learned how to apply the additives with the benefit of the research department. They would let me spec the base oil while they specified the additive packages for gather field test data. The test packages were used in plant equipment such as flooded screw compressors, gear reducers & increasers, engines, etc. I was responsible for doing elemental and ferrographical analysis of the used oils for predictive maintenance purposes.
One comment on oil seals. A rubber lip seal typically has a design life of 2000 hours. Having a few spots show-up on the rear wheel signifies that traces of oil are making it past the lip seal. That is a good thing to prolong the life of the seal as long as it isn't making a mess. There are additives that swell buna-N (common rubber used for making lip seals). Synthetic oils are comprised of different types of basestocks. The most common and inexpensive are PAO (Polyalphaolefins) or Group III oils. PAO's are more expensive since they are truly synthetic oils manufactured by reacting decene monomer. Group III oils are mineral oils that are highly refined and hydrogentated to remove double bonds to decrease reactivity. Manufacturers will not state on the synthetic oil containers the type of base stock. In fact, they won't even tell you over the telephone if you call their tech line. PAO is chemically more stable because it is more homogenious (closer in molecular weight) than a Group III. The higher priced oils such as Amsoil are probably PAO's. I suspect the cheaper variety of synthetics such as Shell Rotella are Group III's. Mobil used to never cut quality for price, but they are now owned by Exxon. Mobil still owns probably 90% of the industrial lubrication market even though Exxon is now driving the bus. Exxon's basestock used in their motor oils years ago (Uniflow) used to darken within 1000 miles after an oil change. The dark color is due to the lack of stabilty in the presence of oxygen. It has also been legislated in court that Group III oils can be called synthetic oils even though they are worked over mineral oils. PAO's due exhibit a small degree of seal shinkage. Thus, companies like Amsoil will not sacrifice performance over price and will fortify their PAO packages with proper additives to neuatralize the seal shinkage issue. The same additve used for neutalizing the seal shrinkage makes the buna-N softer and more pliable; thus better sealing. Amsoil published a really good technical paper on "gear oils" recently. One can check it out by going to their site. It compares about 8-10 different brands of mineral and synthetic GL5 rated gear oils. B)
