Finally Happened -- Bike = Dead (Coma?)

[JimLor]

2005.5/38k miles/no previous problems. Numerous electrical farkles. All connections soldered, dielectric grease, and heat shrink. I don't think it's one of my connections, but will check.

- Today, left house at 0645, approx 15 minutes later sat at a light and the engine died - gauges stayed on. Hit starter and she started right up.

- Hour later pulled out of the parking lot at work. Engine died after ~50 meters. Hit starter - bike started.

- 20 meters later I pulled over to answer phone, turned bike off. Ended call, turned the key - nada, nothing, zippo. No power anywhere.

- Pushed bike back to lot and called towing service.

Cycled the key repeatedly with no results.

Datel - voltage readings normal upon startup at house at 0645.

At work, may, repeat may, have seen 19v when I turned the key (also may have been the sunlight reflection), immediately went to normal 12.8. Started normally and went to 14.1 - both normal. About 1.25 hours after pushing bike back to lot, tried key one more time; lights on, fuel pump pumped, gauges started to cycle - speedo made it to 120mph and then all died. Repeatedly tried key with no results.

I have the extended warranty and will take it to Blalocks - if this will cost!

Here's what I think:

1. Ignition switch shit the bed

2. Ground corroded

3. The connection that others have cleaned is corroded - I can't think of the part and haven't found the thread via search.

One thing bugs me with the above - why did the gauges stay on the first 2 times the engine died, then all electrical gone?

So, whaddya think?

Oh yeah, the Master Gunny Harley guy watched me push the bike on the truck - shamefull!!!!

 

[dcarver]

Jim,

Sounds similar to my problem - solution = new wiring harness due to bad 'spider' ground located under fuel tank, LHS as sitting on bike.

Some threads to look at

First thread from Airhead

My Thread

Good Luck, hope you have YES, the bill was ~800 IIRC

Edit - then again, you're a gen 1? If it's the same issue, IIRC you'll be the first. Given that, the 'spider' ground may not be the problem.

 

[mdisher]

I'm going with a shorted battery if it isn't one of those spider connections.

(Oh and is your PC3 ground good?)

Keep us posted.

 

[brazos parker]

Jim, I hate to hear that abt your bike. As you know, I have a 2005.5 as well. It has done something similar, but, not quite the same.

My problem usually occurs after I've stopped. When I go to start the bike, I push the starter and nada...zip...nothing. IIRC, the guages cycle but I get no starter engagement and no fire.

I typically cycle the ignition, shift in & out of neutral, check the sidestand switch, etc....all the easily doable things on the side of the road. It has always started and continues on as if nothing ever happened...even if I stop and start again.

It's disconcerting, at best, as I am now pleasantly surprised everytime the bike starts normally. But, I'm always anticipating the "towable incident."

I've never determined the cause of the problem. I just ride on in blissful ignorance.

Good luck.

 

[slapnpop]

Mike, I was actually recalling our experience on the side of the road in NC just this morning. It occurred to me we only got the bike to start in Neutral, and I just this morning thought it might be the clutch switch or associated wiring.

If the bike won't start in neutral, I doubt this is the issue.

Jim, the ignition switch has two circuits. If the problem occurred with only one of the circuits first, it could explain the engine running and the dash on. I'm not familiar enough with the wiring to say for sure. Any other of the items you mentioned could be at fault.

 

[dcarver]

Where, oh Where is IonBeam?

 

[user 6393]

Where, oh Where is IonBeam?

probably rebuilding his flux capacitor

 

[JimLor]

Sorry to hear of your problems Mike. With mine the starter cranked away and the bike started after the stall - as long as the gauges were powered.

Would be nice to hear from Mr. Beam, he always has suggestions that help, along with many others on the forum.

Forgot to add that Lorie and I were out about a week or so ago and while tooling up route 1 it felt like the engine quit then immediately started again - I thought I was in too high a gear as I was accelerating (I was) and it was a lug, but now I'm pretty sure it was the harbinger of things to come.

Slappy - guy at work also said there are a bunch of contacts in the ignition switch and I suspect that might explain engine stall but gauges still on -- and finally nothing on and nothing running resulting in the humiliation of having a Harley guy watch me push the bike on a flatbed, just friggin' priceless. Then again, sometimes stuff just breaks or flat wears out and in light of what else is going on in my life this is a minor burp.

You know, I keep going out to the garage and turning the key hoping this is brain fart, nope - just tried again and nothing.

Guess I'll finally get to try out Blalock's in Warrenton and use my YES before it's up next May. I will check all of my connections and the battery connections. I meant to clean and dielectric grease the battery ground last time I had the bike apart, but couldn't find it and actually didn't look to hard. Where the heck does the battery ground connect to the frame?

Thanks to you all offerring suggestions.

 

[cota95]

As a victim of 2 failures, my vote is with the ignition switch. Try cycling on/off while moving the wires underneath the switch.

 

[sparked]

jimlor

hey; try this ignition switch fix... if it works, get a new ignition switch [fixing the problem only worked twice for me].

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=103354

 

[ionbeam]

Man, I go to bed early (10:00 pm EASTERN time) and get up early to run a mission of mercy for my brother this morning (his truck dead IN the road)...

I agree with the previous posts, sure sounds like the ignition switch. As part of POST (Power On Self Test) the ECU is supposed to sweep the gauges. The ECU has to complete this task once initiated if all is well. The only way this won't happen is if power to the ECU is interrupted.

There may be an outlier problem that we overlook because it is outside the expected norm of the wiring system. There is a chance that a wire or wires have come undone, at first causing sparking and erratic symptoms and later taking out fuses. Or, the undone wires could be loose battery terminals <_< and loose batt terminals *may* have allowed the flash appearance of the 19 volts you (think you) saw.

Good luck, hope it is the batt terminals or ignition switch -- definite cause, definite fix.

Well, I'm on my way out for a ride up the coast

 

[3dogs]

Jim, I looked at my 2005 service manual's wiring diagram.

Check all fuses first especially the ones that go to the ign sw.

A relatively easy check for power from the ign sw to the ECU can be made at the ECU. Unplug the ECU harness from the ECU and look for a white with blue striped wire (it's the only one with that color combination at the ECU harness). Use a test light to probe that wire and turn the ign sw on. The test light should light up. The W/B wire goes directly to the ign sw (does not go through a relay or fuse). If you don't get power at the ECU on the W/B wire go back to the ign sw and start tracing power from there to the batt.

The ign sw is the most likely cause for your problem, however there are other posibilities including:

Ignition Main fuse burned or poor connection

Battery (shorted internally)

Battery connections poor

Other weird wiring problem

Bad ECU (very unlikely, they are most reliable)

Good luck, Tracy...

 

[JimLor]

Thanks folks. Intermitent internet problems at home so Lorie and I are here at a coffee shop - hence the late reply.

I'll go over the battery, connections, and fuzes (particularly the M728 long intrusion fuze - sorry, arty joke) and hope that's it.

Thanks again.

 

[Grumpy]

Thanks folks. Intermitent internet problems at home so Lorie and I are here at a coffee shop - hence the late reply.
I'll go over the battery, connections, and fuzes (particularly the M728 long intrusion fuze - sorry, arty joke) and hope that's it.

Thanks again.

James, sorry to hear about all your electrical problems. This is the kind of thing that happens to me so I've come up with a couple of electrical rules, namely: 1. Electrons: you can't see 'um; you can't trust 'um! 2. Electrons: you can't see 'um; but sometimes you can feel them! Good luck on fixing your problems.

jim

 

[ionbeam]

...fuzes (particularly the M728 long intrusion fuze...

If your FJR leaves the ground the air burst fuse goes off? Did you wheelie? If not, you are back to wiggling the ECU connector, checking for corroded connectors, checking battery terminals and the fuses. I doubt that your failure is from a MTSQ fuze because your problem was slow to develop.

 

[Jer]

I hope the kill switch is in the run position.

Jer

 

[JimLor]

Jer - Yes, even if it wasn't the gauges would still light up, but thanks, sometimes it is the easiest thing!

Ion - the M728 is a Variable Time (VT) fuze (as is the 713/714 and 732); MTSQ is not VT, but Mechanical Time Super Quick. The VT fuze emits a signal and when it's ~7 meters from the ground it detonates. MT is a set time, example 18.4 sec and detonates at the time set once the fuze is activated no matter where it is at that particular time. On a VT fuze the time set is the time that the fuze activates and begins to transmit. How great is this, I get to lecture Ionbeam!! All in good fun and I am very impressed that you know MTSQ - from a former life?

Tracy - if it is the battery or poor connection, why would the engine stall but the gauges remain lit? At least until the final death of all.

 

[Constant Mesh]

Don't know if the ECU controls the meter needle sweep at power on? It may be initiated locally at the meter panel when the panel is first powered.

The ground connection for the battery (-) is located on the lower right front portion of the engine crankcase. The connection bolt threads vertically up into the crankcase. You can see the connection through the slit in the lower right cowling. The battery cable and the starter motor cable pass down by the rear of the plastic coolant reservoir.

The power interruption is more than momentary otherwise the engine would refire before it stopped turning. Yet it corrects itself allowing a successful restart in a few seconds.

 

[ionbeam]

FWIW, the Yamaha Technical Orientation Guide states that 'instrumentation is driven directly from the machine's ECU' and goes on to say that the Electronic Speedometer and Electronic Tachometer are step-motor driven. The owners manual states that 'When the key is turned to "ON", the speedometer needle will sweep once across the speed range and then return to zero in order to test the electrical circuit'. This is what led me to believe that the ECU controls the speedometer sweep and my guess that failure to complete the gauge sweep is an indication that the ECU was unable to complete the POST routine. And the bigger guess that the only way the ECU can fail to complete the POST to the instruments is due to a voltage problem.

M728 is a Variable Time (VT) fuze and AFAIK is suggested for, but not solely used for timing air bursts, hence my 'in the air wheelie' comment. At one point ~10 years ago I was working on deployment and detonation controls for shaped charges and SDVA (SKEET weapons delivery). I was designing low cost, high reliability thin-film hybrid microelectronic triggers along with a bunch of other Good Shit for the military. Unfortunately, to do the work correctly required a mind melting read of military systems to edgukate a non military guy.