FJR arrival vs BMW K1200GT

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BamaCop

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Okay, room here for a soon to be BMW K1200GT guy who will be riding with a soon to be new FJR rider. Okay I changed my post a lot. Your replys before I changed my post showed you seem to be reasonable here.

I just told my buddy his bike is here! He is as eager as I am to get mine. He too is a member here! Happy April fools from a FNG!

I know it was a cheap way to feel this place out changing my post so much and I wont do this again!

 
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What exactly is it you want us to say?

I'm sure most people care more about the people they are riding with than bike brands. That being said, most people are here because they like the FJR and own one.

 
Hey BamaC., from what I`ve read, the new GT is a formidable machine and more than worthy to compete head to head with our beloved FJR. Our only legit qualm is the price. Anybody who is quick to bash another brand (just because, they cannot fairly identify with something else they do not possess), may not be worthy of a reponse. Those who have experience with said brand and who have had a bad go of it, can rightly criticise the product...for what it`s worth! :assasin:

 
BamaCop....

I'm not sure there is a point in your post. Is there a question in your post to which we can respond? You can keep your flame retardant suit in the closet.... at least so far. But, BTAIM....

I don't ride Yamaha's exclusively either..... and yeah, I've ridden with other folks on other brands. Harleys, Wings, VTXs, Brits.... and others. Personally, I don't care much to ride with a group of folks. The Harley groups I've ridden with were the worst. :angry:

Many folks don't know the 'etiquette' of riding with others.... or the safety rules. That puts me off BIG time with groups.... even a group of 3! Even single riders are all over the road. Bugs me, man...

BMW makes great bikes. I like 'em a great deal. But, so does Honda, Yamaha, and ... well.... maybe.... ahhh..... Harley. One rides what one wants to ride. I may even buy a BMW at some point as well. I do drive BMW cagers.

But, all this said, I don't think I'd sell my car and bike to buy a BMW motorbike. There are many other bikes that are fun and powerful that fill the bill without selling everything to buy one. They are pricey. I was thinking of buying a Porsche GT3, but I'd have to sell my house. Ouch...!

So, ride what you want and ride with who you want. I'm sure many folks on FJRs may be happy to ride with you, bro. And, who is faster is not a real plus on my side of the card.... faster is often equated with unsafe. But, not always. :erm:

BAGGER

 
I've owned 3 BMWs over the years. I can only say I hope your experience with the BMW is better than mine was. They were not nearly as maintenance free as my Yamaha and the cost of their maintenance was outrageous. The lack of a large dealer base and the crappy attitude of many of their dealers were the main reasons I dumped the brand. Enjoy your new BMW....and if you get tired of the same things I did, we'll welcome you over to the FJR world.

 
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I've thought long and hard about either a FJR1300 or K1200GT.

Since I went with the FJR (on order), I'll just post my concerns about the KGT.

1) Maintenance. You are bound to the BMW dealership. Even simple procedures such as a brake fluid change require the BMW dealership computer. I simply feel uncomfortable paying $300.00 for a brake fluid change (the procedure is quite involved and labor intensive and cannot be safely done at home because there is no way to check proper bleed down without the computer). BMW's diagnostics are dealership based. The Japanese tend to use on-board diagnostics, so I can troubleshoot my bike at home. If you aren't a DIY'er then this point doesn't really matter.

2) Parts pricing/long-term maintenance. I've got 26,000 miles on my Goldwing. The rear shock is shot. Most bikes will go through their rear shock between 25,000 and 35,000 miles. Since I'm planning on using my FJR for a 94-mile, round-trip commute, I will need to replace the rear shock fairly quickly. The rear FJR shock is a normal shock and I will be able to replace it with an aftermarket item cheaply. The BMW ESA shock is only available through BMW. I don't know the price of this shock, but my bet is that it'll be between $2,000.00 and $3,000.00. For $2,000.00 I could replace the front AND rear suspension on the FJR with Traxxion front fork cartridges and a Penske rear shock -- extremely premium compenents (I didn't even go that high spec on my track bike).

3) I've ridden the early K1200S and it had some truly wonky EFI. However, I've heard that the latest EFI reprogramming on the K-series has resolved all the old issues. I've heard that the FJR's have a lurchy on/off throttle transistion, but because the FJR uses an old-style analog wiring harness, it can use a Power Commander IIIUSB which will allow me to tune the bike to get rid of all the EPA fluffiness.

4) I can't stand the noise that the ESA brakes make.

5) Total costs for me breakdown as follows:

FJR 13000 (taxes+title+all fees): $13,500.00

3-Year Yamaha factory warranty extension (4 years total, unlimited miles): $450.00

Total FJR Cost: $13,950.00

K1200GT (ESA, Heated everything, Cruise): $21,000.00-$22,000.00 before taxes tiltle and all fees. So, a total of about $22,250.00-$23,250.00.

The difference is roughly $8,300.00-$9,300.00. That's enough to buy a 600cc sportbike!

---------------------

Points that favor the K1200GT

1) Heated everything on the BMW. You can get heated grips on the FJR, which I'll probably get later (~$300.00). Heated seats aren't available on the FJR.

2) Cruise control. Unavailable on the FJR. If any ride is going to need cruise control, I'll take the Goldwing, that way I can listen to the radio and drink my tea while straight-lining down the highway.

3) Duo-lever front end. For street use, I believe that the Duo-lever front end is better than conventional front forks (although it is unsuitable for track use). The paralever rear end on the BMW will always outperform any non-parallelogram rear suspension (such as on the FJR). Pushed to track speeds, I expect both bikes will wallow like drunk hippos, but for street use, the duo-lever is better able to isolate the rider from road shock and suffers less from bump steer than traditional forks.

4) ~20 more horsepower. On the street, this won't be too noticeable. Because street speeds are limited by poor road conditions, traffic and speed limits (which may not apply to you since you are a LEO), street bike performance is more limited by risk-tolerance rather than machine or rider capabilities.

5) No heat issue on the K-series bikes. The '06 FJR is supposed to be cooler than the earlier models. This is a big point for me, since I had a Honda ST1300 that roasted me alive. I'm glad I have a month to see how other USA riders find the heat on the FJR. If I see one complaint, I'm taking back my deposit on the FJR.

--------------------

Misc. Stuff

Brakes: I've read in MCN that the FJR ABS system is limited to ~0.75G of deceleration whereas the BMW Integral-ABS system is limited to ~1.0G of deceleration. Although the new Integral ABS is better than the ABS-II it replaced, I still find it to be quite jerky in its brake-release-brake algorithm. I have not tried the Yamaha system, but I am familiar with the Honda system which is much, much smoother than the BMW system. I'm also not fond of the electro-hydraulic actuation of the BMW system. It has very little progressivity or linearity and it has absolutely NO feel (plus it sounds horrible). It's a great system for inexperienced riders as it's can go to full braking power very quickly (thanks to the electric motors and computer supervision) -- even with a hesitant, novice rider at the controls. However, I have enough track experience that hesitation with the brakes is not an issue for me. Since I'm confident with my braking skills, I prefer the feel and feedback from normal, un-assisted hydraulic brakes.

Styling: Both bikes are a bit conservative. The FJR is bland. The BMW is "different". The '06 FJR has nice fairing openings for frame sliders. You will have to drill the BMW to fit the Power Cup sliders on it.

-----------------------------

Conclusion.

The BMW K12GT is probably the better bike in many ways. However for someone like me who will be putting serious mileage on the bike, it's simply too expensive to maintain. With the extended warrranty, the FJR actually has a one year longer warranty period than the KGT.

The performance difference between the two bikes is so small that rider risk-tolerance (and rider skill) will be the biggest differntial between the two in any contest of speed on the street.

The final issue is price. You can simply buy the FJR and a 600cc sportbike for the price of the KGT. The combination of the FJR and 600cc sportbike bests the single KGT in that you'd have a street bike and a track bike (that would absolutely destroy the KGT on the track). Or you could put the money towards travelling and vacation time on the FJR.

The only thing that would make me change my mind on the FJR is if the '06 is a roaster. If that's the case, I'll pull my deposit and get a KGT.

 
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I completed a six year hiatus into the world of the BMW's on February 5th of last year. That was the day that I traded off the K12 for a new 05 GoldWing. I had traded the 02' R1150RT for the 2003 FJR the summer before. I enjoyed attending the BMW events as far as the people were concerned but grew weary of being talked down to by all the dealers. They would discourage even the simplest home mechanic issues and then rape ya naked when ya came to them for work? I had four of their bikes and three of their cars over that period of time and I can only say "Never Again."

The Wing is a great bike and so is the FJR. I can ride into damn near any town USA and there is a dealer of Honda's or Yamaha's nearby. On the other hand you don't have to try very hard to be a very long way from a BMW dealer?

It may come down to what really moves you? I am moved by a bike with long cycle durations of maintenance and then reasonable costs when they occur.

Flint

 
Bama Cop

Why don't you just carry your sorry BMW lovin ass back over to the OTHER site where it belongs! ;)

Oh, and if you had done a search of the FJ vs BMW you 'ld find that the comparrison had been played to death.

Sorry about the intrusion fellow FJ ers. My Ridding partner has appearently discovered my online forum. :agent:

Bama Cop a little FYI.... My FJ is gonna smoke your GT just like my little ol Katana dusted your RT :D

 
There are some good points in this thread, but many of the pricing comparisons cherry pick data. The BMW and Yamaha comparably equipped are about $19K vs. $14K. That's $5K difference, not $9K difference. Give it three-months and both bikes are going to be offered with similar discounts. Give it a year and I'd venture you might do better bargaining on the BMW, especially if you can take advantage of some of the cut-rate financing.

I won't venture into the treacherous waters of whether it's worth the extra (which is a personal tradeoff), but let's get the extra amount right.

- Mark

 
I have owned 3 Beemers all all had telelever front ends. I have not rode a new K-bike with the Duolever front suspension. I agree with a previous post stating the BMW's suspension is great for begining riders and it isolates you from the road, which is exactly what I grew to dislike. None of the Beemers provided front tire feedback to the rider and in my case gave me an unsafe feeling when the pace was turned up. With that said, I give BMW credit for making me a better rider through their bikes ability to absorb rider error.

 
I think BMW's are great bikes, and their riders not as gay as some would make them out to be.

 
I think BMW's are great bikes, and their riders not as gay as some would make them out to be.
uh, rad, i thought since bmw owners were anal, that they were then gay??? :erm:

 
I have owned 3 Beemers all all had telelever front ends. I have not rode a new K-bike with the Duolever front suspension. I agree with a previous post stating the BMW's suspension is great for begining riders and it isolates you from the road, which is exactly what I grew to dislike. None of the Beemers provided front tire feedback to the rider and in my case gave me an unsafe feeling when the pace was turned up. With that said, I give BMW credit for making me a better rider through their bikes ability to absorb rider error.
The telelever is an acquired test, but I've owned one BMW with a telelever and lots of bikes with forks, and there is no doubt in my mind that the telelever is a better front end for real-world bumpy roads. That lack of "feel" is just the front end going it's job, isolating the chassi from small pertubations and tracking over bumps without the usual changes in geometry that occur with fork bikes, especially under braking. It really is a more stable front end and I'm much quicker on a bumpy road on a R1100S than I am on a R6, let alone a FJR.

Feel is subjective and I've never been behind a duolever, but for bumpy roads I love the telelever.

YMMV.

- Mark

 
There are some good points in this thread, but many of the pricing comparisons cherry pick data. The BMW and Yamaha comparably equipped are about $19K vs. $14K. That's $5K difference, not $9K difference. Give it three-months and both bikes are going to be offered with similar discounts. Give it a year and I'd venture you might do better bargaining on the BMW, especially if you can take advantage of some of the cut-rate financing.
I feel that one of the reasons you would get the BMW is that the KGT has options unavailable on the Yamaha FJR.

 
Are there any BMW options not addressed by the aftermarket? And would the initial purchase price difference take care of any needs one might have? Aftermarket seat heaters, grip heaters, GPS, cruise controls, ets., have been in the motorcycling community for years. I suppose strict adherents to OEM equipment (a la' Goldwing and BMW) might be "put off" at less than OEM equipment, i.e., it might affect the resale value. Most others are acclimated to improvements made through the aftermarket.

 
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Greetings, I'm a LEO in NJ. I was very close to buying the BMW R1150Rt in 04, then started reading about the FJR. I took a shot w/ the FJR as no one in my area had one, just sat on it at the NYC m/c show and bought it. I'm very happy w/ my choice. A friend was going to do the same thing in 05 and I let him get familiar w/ the FJR and he bought an 05 as well. As I look back I'm doubly glad as the local BMW dealer went belly up last year which means service is about 50-60 miles away now. Yamaha-3 dealers within 15 or less miles. Good luck w/ your bike.

 
Are there any BMW options not addressed by the aftermarket?  And would the initial purchase price difference take care of any needs one might have?  Aftermarket seat heaters, grip heaters, GPS, cruise controls, ets., have been in the motorcycling community for years.  I suppose strict adherents to OEM equipment (a la' Goldwing and BMW) might be "put off" at less than OEM equipment, i.e., it might affect the resale value.  Most others are acclimated to improvements made through the aftermarket.
Some of the aftermarket stuff is good. Most is crap.

Grip heaters -- available OEM from Yamaha.

Heated seat from Corbin -- Corbin sucks so bad I refuse to damage my bike by putting their crap on any of my bikes.

Cruise control -- There used to be an Australian company who manufactured an electronic cruise control for motorcycles. I'm not sure if they're still in business. I've heard it worked well, but I don't have any info on reliability.

ESA suspension -- not available aftermarket.

Paralever -- not available aftermarket.

Duo lever -- not available aftermarket.

Power brakes -- not available aftermarket.

GPS - BMW uses a re-badged Garmin unit (with more keys).

I've never really been impressed by the aftermarket -- except when the aftermarket company is also an OEM supplier (eg. Givi, Hepco Becker, Ohlins, etc.) or a performance-oriented company which tests their products either in competition or inhouse (like Penske). With those exceptions, I find that most of the aftermarket makes poorly engineered, poor quality crap -- just look at the Harley aftermarket.

As far as resale value, most dealers will give you $0.10 - $0.25 / dollar spent on your goodies. My biggest concern is not so much monetary, but safety and reliability. I'm not sure if any of you remember the BMW aftermarket company (I forget the name) that went belly-up after one of their products severely injured or killed a customer due to a lack of engineering oversight.

 
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Some of the aftermarket stuff is good. Most is crap.
Heated seat from Corbin -- Corbin sucks so bad I refuse to damage my bike by putting their crap on any of my bikes.

I've never really been impressed by the aftermarket -- except when the aftermarket company is also an OEM supplier (eg. Givi, Hepco Becker, Ohlins, etc.) or a performance-oriented company which tests their products either in competition or inhouse (like Penske). With those exceptions, I find that most of the aftermarket makes poorly engineered, poor quality crap
Let me introduce you to Russell (https://www.day-long.com)

Oh, the list is longer, but I won't bore you with your biases.

 
Let me introduce you to Russell (https://www.day-long.com)
Oh, the list is longer, but I won't bore you with your biases.
I was able to harvest some of the aftermarket stuff from my totalled '04 and install it on my new '05. So the "crap" judgement seems a little short-sighted.

As to wanting duo-lever/paralever/power brakes/ESA, you didn't make it clear that you wanted to turn another brand into a BMW since all of that is specific to the German marque. So it seems your decision is made. Cool! Now lets go riding.

 
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