FJR>C14>K1200GT>ST Comparison

[stevec677]

The group I ride with consists of a 2008 BMW K1200GT, a 2009 Kawasaki Concours 1400, a 2005 Honda ST1300 and my 2009 Yamaha FJR1300. We like to switch bikes just to see what the other bikes are like. It really helps to be able to get off one bike and immediately get on a different bike to see the subtle differences. To start, I am 44 years old, 5'7" & 200lbs (insert fat joke here). They are all great bikes, but by far the FJR is the easiest to ride well. It has the lowest seat height and the most comfortable seat for long rides. The BMW and the C14 have more power, but you need to wind them up to get to the power. The ST has the best wind protection and is incredibly smooth, but I find it boring. I don't feel involved in the ride. It's like I'm watching the ride on TV. I could see how the ST might excell on very long trips. The C14 is definitely more on the sportbike side of things. The BMW is not worth the extra money, but some of the features (ie. cruise control) are real nice. The separate right and left blinker switches take some time to get used to.

Overall, if any of you were second guessing your choice of buying an FJR, don't. It has the best combination of power, handling, and comfort (at least for someone of my size).

 

[user 17459]

Steve,

I think it's great that we have such good choices in the sport touring sector, and all of these bikes have the strengths and weaknesses. There will always be a lot of healthy debate about these sport-tourers, and the best bike is the one that suits your needs the best and turns you on. They're all awesome machines!

I had an '03 Honda ST1300 ABS for about 3 years which I sold about 6 months ago out of necessity. I had farkled up the bike and had it pretty much right where I wanted it, and it served me well for 30K miles. Smooth and powerful V4, good handling, good wind protection, and flawless reliability.

I'm now looking at another bike and I've pretty much decided on the FJR this time. I have not ridden one yet, but I've been reading up on everything I can find on it. I love the styling of the bike and think it's going to be a better choice for me now that my wife rarely rides with me any more. Reasons for now wanting another ST? The number one issue is the weight. While it sheds it weight once you're rolling, pushing around or backing 700+ lbs was hard! The FJR is also pretty heavy, but quite a bit lighter than the ST. The ST did everything well, but I think I was a bit bored with it. To me the styling appeared dated when compared to the FJR, K1200GT and the new Concours.

I'm looking for a bike that will turn me on a bit more, while providing all the great functionality that we expect out of our sport-touring bikes. I think the FJR is the one. I'd like to be able to get a Gen II, but it looks like a Gen I is all I can afford right now.

Ride safe,

Rick

 

[wfooshee]

(insert fat joke here)

Not gonna get any of that from this crew!!! Most of us don't even remember 200 pounds!

Nice comparison. You get any burns on any of them other bikes? (Meaning, how's the heat management compare to each other? You know, fat guys gotta watch what kinda heat sources they get close to . . . .)

 

[stevec677]

The ST1300 is an interesting bike. As far as I can tell they have not changed anything (except colors) from 2003 - 2009. If I had to come up with one thing to change, I don't think I could. There are no glaring faults in the bike and I don't understand why the other manufactuers haven't incorporated tip over guards into their machines.

On a side note, I can see the sport touring market getting much bigger in the near future. As all of the sport bike riders get older they are going to need something more comfortable to ride (while still being exciting to ride). I guess we are all trend setters.

 

[stevec677]

Oh, the heat issue........

The last two rides we were out on were 59 degrees and 85 degrees (you have to love the Northeast). These temp swings made it real easy to evaluate the heat. The FJR and the BMW have no noticeable heat issues. The Kawi does give off quite a bit of heat, but it was welcomed on the cold day. I didn't get to ride the Kawi on the hot day. I did ride the ST on the hot day and it was very noticeable. It was more noticeable with the windshield up. I like to have the wind in my face, so I usually keep the shield all the way down, but we ran into a brief shower so up went the shield. I am not that sensitive (ask my ex-wife) about temperature, so the heat was definitely bearable. I could see if you rode in a hot climate, the heat issue with the ST or the C14 could be a factor. We don't have very many days above 85 degrees, so I don't think it is a big issue. We have one guy in the group that is very sensitive to heat issues and really has a problem with the ST on hot days. Oh yeah, he is the one that owns the ST. The guy that owns that owns the C14 is coming off a GSXR, so he is used to heat issues.

 

[user 17459]

The ST1300 is an interesting bike. As far as I can tell they have not changed anything (except colors) from 2003 - 2009. If I had to come up with one thing to change, I don't think I could. There are no glaring faults in the bike and I don't understand why the other manufactuers haven't incorporated tip over guards into their machines.
On a side note, I can see the sport touring market getting much bigger in the near future. As all of the sport bike riders get older they are going to need something more comfortable to ride (while still being exciting to ride). I guess we are all trend setters.

There have been no significant changes in the ST. (In '03 only the ABS model had the electically adjustable windshield) The ST community is anxiously awaiting the "next" model, but it's always just a color change! The bike really doesn't have any glaring faults, but could afford to shed a few lbs. It's interesting that the heat issue has started up. Like the Gen 1 FJRs, the ST is supposed to have a serious heat issue and it's often debated on the ST forum. My '03 initially had an aftermarket seat with a significant gap between the seat and the tank, and I was getting cooked. I bought a Sargent seat which seals up nicely aganst the tank and the heat issue was gone for me. Mine also had the wind deflectors that helped out. I never felt that there was a significant heat issue and didn't feel compelled to do anything about it.

Now, I'm looking at buying a Gen 1 Feejer and am reading about the heat issue which sounds similar to the ST issue in that some feel it's horrible and others haven't even noticed it. Makes it tough for an outsider like me to ascertin if there really is a significant issue or not.

I think the Honda engineers have struck a home run with the tipover wings though! I wish the FJR had something like that. I never dropped my ST, but MOST owners do drop them.

Rick

 

[stevec677]

Rick, you mentioned wind deflectors. Do you remember where you got them? The ST owner was talking about trying to make something. I couldn't find anything this morning on the internet.

 

[mmonroe]

Would you mind expanding on this portion of your thoughts:

The C14 is definitely more on the sportbike side of things

How would you compare their handling on the curvy roads?

How would you compare the "heft/weight" of the bikes?

Thanks!!

 

[stevec677]

The C14 handles great. Very easy to carve into the turns and very fast in the straights. Your feet are a little higher and a little further back. Not uncomfortable, just a little different. The engine also like to be up higher in the RPM range. I can't remember the exact red line, but it is somewhere north of 10,000. The bike seems to come alive above 5,000 rpm. The gearing is very nice and it does have an interesting Over Drive. 70mph = approx 2000 rpm. There is no power in OD, but the mileage must be great. The front brakes are very strong, but they come on a little too quick. The rear is average at best. The suspension is real nice. The bike tracks all corners real solid and quick transitions are fluid. Compared to the FJR, the cornering requires a little more effort, but not by a lot. As far as the weight goes, it feels heavier in parking lots, but once under way you don't notice it. It does have the least wind protection of the group. You can actually feel wind on the top of your legs.

 

[RadioHowie]

(insert fat joke here)

Not gonna get any of that from this crew!!! Most of us don't even remember 200 pounds!

Speak for yourself, Walt.

I remember 200 lbs. That's about what I leave in the commode every morning. :blink:

 

[MCRIDER007]

The C14 handles great. Very easy to carve into the turns and very fast in the straights. Your feet are a little higher and a little further back. Not uncomfortable, just a little different. The engine also like to be up higher in the RPM range. I can't remember the exact red line, but it is somewhere north of 10,000. The bike seems to come alive above 5,000 rpm. The gearing is very nice and it does have an interesting Over Drive. 70mph = approx 2000 rpm. There is no power in OD, but the mileage must be great. The front brakes are very strong, but they come on a little too quick. The rear is average at best. The suspension is real nice. The bike tracks all corners real solid and quick transitions are fluid. Compared to the FJR, the cornering requires a little more effort, but not by a lot. As far as the weight goes, it feels heavier in parking lots, but once under way you don't notice it. It does have the least wind protection of the group. You can actually feel wind on the top of your legs.

As a C14 owner with 7500 miles to date, I have a slightly different perspective on a couple of issues. First the heat...yes, the C14 has a heat issue that is caused by the 4 into 2 into one header system (that has 2 small cats) that runs under the right side of the engine and dumps a lot of heat on the riders right leg. It is noticeable at 80 degrees, annoying at 85, and gets pretty hot by 95. I don't notice the heat on my ankle because of my boots but my calf gets pretty hot...one solution is to wear riding pants that will insulate you from the engine heat...my solution is to park the C14 and ride my 2008 FJR. The C14 does not have any heat issues with the left leg or the tank. It does have really good leg protection from wind and rain (which also holds in the engine heat) and it is possible to adjust the stock windshield so that wind is routed across the top of the legs.

The C14 has a shorter engine stroke than the FJR and almost begs the rider to rev it to its 10,500 redline. The power below 4,000 rpms is not impressive unless you remove the secondary butterflies or add a TRE and then it is very impressive.

Sixth gear has very tall gearing, 70mph is actually about 3000 rpms but if it improves gas mileage I have never been able to verify it. When I take trips with an FJR rider, he will usually take 10-12 percent less gas than I do, and I have to fill the C14 with premium. Sixth gear is nice for high speed cruising but I am just as happy with the FJR's 5th gear.

The front brakes are very strong and I like them that way but its probably a good idea to spend the extra money for ABS if you have to ride in the rain more than a couple of times a year.

The suspension is firm but the forks need a compression damping adjustment to be as plush as the FJR. It does seem to be dialed in pretty good for high speed riding.

The C14 has more ground clearance and lean angle than a FJR but carries its weight a little higher. The FJR is a little easier to ride through a corner but the C14 has more potential and you are less likely to drag hard parts.

I really like both of them but if I could only have one it would be the FJR.

 

[Wicked Webby]

I agree that all these bikes are great,

I am not very versed on the BMW but

know the Kawi and Yami very well.....

The point made here that the FJR isn't as powerful as the

C14 is a very mute one at that. In stock form, the FJR doesn't

come as hot from the factory. Though, even both bikes (in stock form)

compete very closely. Tenths of a second (1/4 times) mean a lot on the track

but not much on the street. The FJR "wakes up" tremendously by adding

exhaust, fuel and opening up the noise restrictions in

the air box. My buddy, Motor659 (on the C14 forum)

would tell you that the modded Feejer performs just as

well (even better in the low and mid ranges) than

the similarly modded C14 (exhaust, fuel tuner, flys

eliminated). Even though the C14 has a 6th gear, it still

gets less mpg than the FJR does in 5th. The C14 is pushing more

air (physically larger) and is 19lbs heavier than the Feejer.

My point is this.... It is pretty simple to add the C14 power to the FJR.

But try adding; a larger gas tank, adjustable handle bars, adjustable seat,

fully adjustable front suspension, reducing the engine heat, and give it

the 26,000 cheaper valve interval maintenance costs...... Or just get the FJR!

I like the C14 a lot. Though, it falls short to the FJR in too many instances.

WW

 

[GMAK]

I haven't ridden a 2009 FJR, like yours. But, do any of these other

bikes compared have any kind of on/off FI abruptness that plagued

the FJR a couple of years back?

Have those problem(s) been corrected on the '09's?

 

[MCRIDER007]

I haven't ridden a 2009 FJR, like yours. But, do any of these otherbikes compared have any kind of on/off FI abruptness that plagued

the FJR a couple of years back?

Have those problem(s) been corrected on the '09's?

The FJR problems you are referring to were corrected on the 08 FJR...and were never a problem on the C14.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Being a 2007 owner (also), I can tell you that the throttle abruptness issue was from the

stock FI map being too "Emissions friendly" (lean from the factory at the lower rpms).

It is a simple fix that can be done a number of ways. Some have been happy with adding

more fuel (over the whole map) by utilizing the barbarian mod. Others have done the throttle tube thing..

Some have liked the results of just simply unplugging the 02 sensor. A lot have also used a

fuel adding tuner (PWC, Techlusion/Dolbeck, Motty).

WW

 

[user 17459]

Rick, you mentioned wind deflectors. Do you remember where you got them? The ST owner was talking about trying to make something. I couldn't find anything this morning on the internet.

Steve,

When I bought my bike (used) it already had the wind deflectors on it, but I know that they come from HondaLine. Here's a link:

https://www.hondadirectlineusa.com/stores/p...mp;ID=577197653

I never rode the bike without them so I don't know how effective they were compared to a naked bike. However, a significant percentage of the STs have them. In addition to increasing the overall wind protection, you can see how they would deflect heat coming off the motor outward away from your legs. I was initially asking if the FJRs had something like them when I was doing my comparisons between the ST and the FJR, but it seems like there is no comparable product.

Rick

 

[JoBu]

The C14 handles great. Very easy to carve into the turns and very fast in the straights. Your feet are a little higher and a little further back. Not uncomfortable, just a little different. The engine also like to be up higher in the RPM range. I can't remember the exact red line, but it is somewhere north of 10,000. The bike seems to come alive above 5,000 rpm. The gearing is very nice and it does have an interesting Over Drive. 70mph = approx 2000 rpm. There is no power in OD, but the mileage must be great. The front brakes are very strong, but they come on a little too quick. The rear is average at best. The suspension is real nice. The bike tracks all corners real solid and quick transitions are fluid. Compared to the FJR, the cornering requires a little more effort, but not by a lot. As far as the weight goes, it feels heavier in parking lots, but once under way you don't notice it. It does have the least wind protection of the group. You can actually feel wind on the top of your legs.

As a C14 owner with 7500 miles to date, I have a slightly different perspective on a couple of issues. First the heat...yes, the C14 has a heat issue that is caused by the 4 into 2 into one header system (that has 2 small cats) that runs under the right side of the engine and dumps a lot of heat on the riders right leg. It is noticeable at 80 degrees, annoying at 85, and gets pretty hot by 95. I don't notice the heat on my ankle because of my boots but my calf gets pretty hot...one solution is to wear riding pants that will insulate you from the engine heat...my solution is to park the C14 and ride my 2008 FJR. The C14 does not have any heat issues with the left leg or the tank. It does have really good leg protection from wind and rain (which also holds in the engine heat) and it is possible to adjust the stock windshield so that wind is routed across the top of the legs.

The C14 has a shorter engine stroke than the FJR and almost begs the rider to rev it to its 10,500 redline. The power below 4,000 rpms is not impressive unless you remove the secondary butterflies or add a TRE and then it is very impressive.

Sixth gear has very tall gearing, 70mph is actually about 3000 rpms but if it improves gas mileage I have never been able to verify it. When I take trips with an FJR rider, he will usually take 10-12 percent less gas than I do, and I have to fill the C14 with premium. Sixth gear is nice for high speed cruising but I am just as happy with the FJR's 5th gear.

The front brakes are very strong and I like them that way but its probably a good idea to spend the extra money for ABS if you have to ride in the rain more than a couple of times a year.

The suspension is firm but the forks need a compression damping adjustment to be as plush as the FJR. It does seem to be dialed in pretty good for high speed riding.

The C14 has more ground clearance and lean angle than a FJR but carries its weight a little higher. The FJR is a little easier to ride through a corner but the C14 has more potential and you are less likely to drag hard parts.

I really like both of them but if I could only have one it would be the FJR.

Very nice write-up on the C14. I've spent limited time on a couple and came away with the same impression. The smoothness of the C14 is VERY impressive. I also found it a bit more comfortable than my FJR and my g/f preferred the pillion accomodations over the FJR by a LONG shot. It was also more fun to ride at a spirited pace, although I can envision myself receiving a few "performance awards" on the C14. I'm afraid the deal breaker was the heat. Living in Central Florida, this is a major concern for me and even with First Gear riding pants, my right calf was still hot to the touch about 10 minutes after my ride. Good point about the cats though...a full system would probably go a long way in reducing that heat. But, for now, it is something I simply don't want to deal with during our seemingly endless summers.

Cheers,

Joe

 

[stevec677]

Rick, thanks for the info, I will pass it along to the ST rider.

MCRIDER007, Thanks for the insight as to the direct cause of the heat on the C14. I know the owner of the C14 is looking into changing the exhaust for looks/performance and if that will also help with the heat issue, that should make make spending the $ a little easier. From your comments, can I assume you suggest changing the complete system and not just a slip-on?

Last night I rode my FJR and the BMW and to sum it up: Now I understand why the magazines have such a hard time picking a winner. They are all great and there is not a clear winner or a clear loser.

 

[MCRIDER007]

MCRIDER007, Thanks for the insight as to the direct cause of the heat on the C14. I know the owner of the C14 is looking into changing the exhaust for looks/performance and if that will also help with the heat issue, that should make make spending the $ a little easier. From your comments, can I assume you suggest changing the complete system and not just a slip-on?

Area P (which is a company that makes after market exhausts) just developed a full system for the C14 using larger header pipes and exhaust which is supposed to run much cooler than the OEM system. It also makes a lot more power (about 160 hp at the rear wheel) and about 5-6 db more noise. I rode a Triumph Sprint ST a couple of years ago that had the same heat issue, maybe a bit worse, and I heard that Triumph later developed a shield that was quite effective but the Sprint does not have the C14's very wide faring that is cutting off all the air flow to the legs.

The C14's heat output on the legs is about the same as the first Gen FJR's, the C14 just dumps almost all of it on the right leg.

I have an Area P carbon fiber slip-on but I installed it in January after buying the C14 in November and it was too cold to tell if it helped the heat problem. There definitely was a performance increase and a 14 pound weight reduction.