FJR vs Connie C10

[Coyote Chris]

see you and raise Phredd
FJR

C14

I cant argue with this one at all! First time I saw the C14 in person, I said, "What a pig!"

 

[rushes]

I rode a 2000 C10 before my 08FJR.

It's like comparing a 55 Chevy to a new Corvette.

The 55 Chevy was and is a great car!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I think the first two responses you got pretty much sum up the whole truth. Fred just used pictures which should have been simple enough for everyone to understand.

I will add a couple thoughts though.

You mentioned that you are 66 and that the ST1300 was "too much bike". My Dear Old Dad is 70 and is very comfortable on his '07 FJR. Do not let age be a deciding factor as to what bike you ride. The ST1300 is about 80 pounds heavier than the FJR but you will rarely notice it. The big Honda carries most of its fuel under the seat so it actually feels light and easy steering at parking lot speeds. If you want more weather protection, the ST has that. You will notice the weight difference when you are pushing the cornering limits of the ST. It will drag its pegs and struggle to follow the FJR in the twisties.

What you are really looking at is moving up to current technology. The FJR is a great bike to replace the old style Connie.

 

[Steve in Phx]

I'll throw in 2 more cents... If I was in your shoes I'd probably seek something a bit smaller/lighter. I think a lot of this decision depends on your health and your fitness and your ability to handle a bike this big.

I had a C10 for about 6 years and absolutely loved that bike. I sold it for a Honda ST1300. I loved my ST1300 for low-speed maneuvering and was pretty darn good at it but the heat issues were too uncomfortable for me and it wasn't something I could fix.

After a couple years I sold the ST1300 for a VStrom 650. Great bike but a bit under-powered for my long highway journeys.

After a couple more years and I sold the VStrom for a 2007 FJR1300AE (electric clutch model).

I'm not as proficient (or practiced) at parking lot speeds with the electric clutch FJR but I'm OK. The FJR feels more top-heavy to me than the ST but that's subjective. Both are heavy. Both are also excellent, reliable machines.

 

[MrZappo]

That c14 from the picture obviously hasn't had its pumpkin lubricated often enough.

It might be a good buy if you can get it for cheap though. If it sat for a while, it's tank might be full of crap. Check that out.

Might have been a nice bike a long time ago.

 

[RaYzerman19]

On the idea that you might want a lighter bike, too bad this one was never brought to the USA, the Honda CBF1000..........smooth...... but here's one going dirt cheap, about $4000 US.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Honda/CBF1000/Quebec/Quebec/5_25423093_20141223110530810/?ms=motorcycles_atvs&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=4_15_6

If you want a perty red one, they're out there, with those nice factory bags.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/Honda/CBF1000/Whitby/Ontario/5_25865126_ON20080312091306937/?ms=motorcycles_atvs&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=5_15_6

 

[Fred W]

And those are selling in the lower value Canadian bux.

 

[blassoff]

I've owned and ridden a couple of C-10's before moving to the FJR.

I had an ugly green 1998 Connie and an 04. For me the comparisons are:

A) The connie was more comfortable ergonomically.

B) Weight difference between the two is pretty insignificant (fjr holds 6.6 gallons, connie holds 7).

C) The FJR definately handles better than the older connie and I found the new C14 to be a squarrely mofo - wouldn't consider buying one.

D) I loved my old C10, really did. but the FJR is sooo much better. Turn in, handling, fuel injection, POWER, jees.

E) If I remember correctly the connie packed about 100 horses, FJR is about 130. Once you get used to FI it's freaking awsome.

F) Buy the FJR and you'll never have to worry about a leaking petcock destroying your engine (the dreaded hydro-lock).

 

[JamesW]

Rode C10s for 22 years, with the european edging and a rifle fairing it was the most weatherproof bike I have ever seen or ridden, biggest mistake I made was taking an FJR for a test ride. Person that bought my C10 wanted a weatherproof commuter bike for here in the PNW, they have that reputation.

 

[roger dodger]

C10 = A fine ride (for many decades)

FJR = A (near) perfect ride for a Sport Tourer!!!

FJR adds FI, elec shield, and 17" tires to a monster engine and (5 spd) tranny! All the things I was wishing for in an improved C10. Don't think too hard, buy the FJR!!!

 

[bergmen]

I'll throw in my $0.02 here (BTW, I'm 66 also). I bought a 2003 C10 Concours brand new in August, 2002. Rode it for 70,000+ miles until the gorgeous red 2014 FJR was introduced. I got one of the first 2014 A models to arrive in Northern California (in November of 2013) and have put close to 23,000 miles on it so far. I eventually sold the Concours in August of 2014.

The Gen III FJRS are light years ahead of every aspect of the C10 Concours. Yes, the C10 has excellent weather protection but that comes with a price. The windshield is not vented like the FJR is and there is serious buffeting that accompanies your protection from the weather. I much prefer the smooth airflow of the FJR and with proper gear, I feel just as protected and much more comfortable.

Having said that, the C10 is an outstanding motorcycle but in this day and age it is SO yesterday. The fantastic benefits of modern throttle-by-wire (YCC-T) and outstanding computerized EFI, not to mention the fabulous drive mode choices, ABS, TC and the excellent integrated electronic cruise control added to the stump pulling torque has revuniated my love of motorcycling. Climb on, turn the key, push the starter and ride off. No choke (or enrichener), no worries about hydro-lock, no need to warm it up before you can get out of the driveway, nuthin'.

I would highly recommend it.

Dan

 

[Coyote Chris]

I think the first two responses you got pretty much sum up the whole truth. Fred just used pictures which should have been simple enough for everyone to understand.
I will add a couple thoughts though.

You mentioned that you are 66 and that the ST1300 was "too much bike". My Dear Old Dad is 70 and is very comfortable on his '07 FJR. Do not let age be a deciding factor as to what bike you ride. The ST1300 is about 80 pounds heavier than the FJR but you will rarely notice it. The big Honda carries most of its fuel under the seat so it actually feels light and easy steering at parking lot speeds. If you want more weather protection, the ST has that. You will notice the weight difference when you are pushing the cornering limits of the ST. It will drag its pegs and struggle to follow the FJR in the twisties.

What you are really looking at is moving up to current technology. The FJR is a great bike to replace the old style Connie.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts.....I have had some physical issues but everything is pretty well healed and I can work on my ranch for many hours a day and walk/work 13 miles....I know what lays ahead for all of us but I think I might easily be able to ride an FJR for five years before stepping down to a smaller bike, even smaller than the NT if necessary. Never give up!

 

[Coyote Chris]

I'll throw in my $0.02 here (BTW, I'm 66 also). I bought a 2003 C10 Concours brand new in August, 2002. Rode it for 70,000+ miles until the gorgeous red 2014 FJR was introduced. I got one of the first 2014 A models to arrive in Northern California (in November of 2013) and have put close to 23,000 miles on it so far. I eventually sold the Concours in August of 2014.
The Gen III FJRS are light years ahead of every aspect of the C10 Concours. Yes, the C10 has excellent weather protection but that comes with a price. The windshield is not vented like the FJR is and there is serious buffeting that accompanies your protection from the weather. I much prefer the smooth airflow of the FJR and with proper gear, I feel just as protected and much more comfortable.

Having said that, the C10 is an outstanding motorcycle but in this day and age it is SO yesterday. The fantastic benefits of modern throttle-by-wire (YCC-T) and outstanding computerized EFI, not to mention the fabulous drive mode choices, ABS, TC and the excellent integrated electronic cruise control added to the stump pulling torque has revuniated my love of motorcycling. Climb on, turn the key, push the starter and ride off. No choke (or enrichener), no worries about hydro-lock, no need to warm it up before you can get out of the driveway, nuthin'.

I would highly recommend it.

Dan

I actually have another in-line petcock to avoid the dreaded hydrolock...but everything you said is true...(I do have an NACA vent in my C10's windscreen and I cant complain about buffeting....my only task now is to find an FJR to sit on and decide if I want a 2014 or 16. Money is now in the checking account. (BTW, Just wondered why you have the RedBull P-38 as your avatar. My favorite plane. I attend the Reno National Air Races every year (by motorcycle of course) and camping out in the high desert watching airplanes go around in circles for 9 days is the best part of my year....and there is a guy who rides his FJR straight through from Seattle and camps next to me....

 

[bergmen]

My Dad was an aircraft tooling specialist for Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank during WWII and did a lot of work on P-38 tooling (as well as most Lockheed aircraft at the time). I also got to meet Tony LeVier several times and had nice conversations with the gentleman. Yes, my favorite aircraft as well.

Dan

 

[Coyote Chris]

My Dad was an aircraft tooling specialist for Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank during WWII and did a lot of work on P-38 tooling (as well as most Lockheed aircraft at the time). I also got to meet Tony LeVier several times and had nice conversations with the gentleman. Yes, my favorite aircraft as well.
Dan

Hey, that's way cool! I have a pilots license and an aircraft mechanics license...kind of an airplane/warbird groupy. I go to Oshkosh every year for the warbirds....Tony LeVier was and is a legend for sure.....dont know about this forum but over at the NT forum, we have found that there seem to be a way higher than normal amount of members who are pilots who like sport touring bikes....

 

[Wemi]

(Uncle Hud suggested I re-post my original post on another part of this forum and he is right so here goes)
Hello, I am Coyote Chris from Spokane. I am 66 years young, have been riding for 50 years and touring for 45, ride about 8,000 miles a year, and currently own a 2010 Honda NT-700v and a 2003 Kawasaki Concours. The Connie is a nice bike but I find in my advanced years, I enjoy the NT (with the big panniers) as a touring bike also as it has great low speed handling, unlike the Connie with a full fuel load and 100 lbs of touring stuff. My old hands can still manage the Connie's clutch although I wouldnt want one much stiffer.....An ST1300 is just too much bike for me, mostly cause it weighs too much.

I have always admired the FJR but I tend to stew about bikes for quite awhile before I purchase them. And I'm not gettting any younger. The left over new 2014's have been speaking to me for a few months now. I really like red bikes. But as you all know by now, the 2016 will have a 6 speed tranny with an "assisted slipper clutch" which is geared taller.

I wish the M/C dealers around the Spokane CDA area had an FJR I could sit on and try the clutch force but everyone is out of them. I would value your opinions on a number of aspects of the bike, especially those of you that have cockpit time in a Kawasaki Concours.

1. Would you say that the FJR feels like it has more low speed stability than the Connie? I get various numbers about how much a wet FJR weighs....mostly around 640-680 lbs. The Connie isnt much more than that but it carries its seven gallons of fuel up high...I have never dumped the Connie in 40,000 miles but like I say, my body isnt getting any younger.

2. How would you charactorize the clutch force of the FJR?

3. If I got an FJR, I would get the canyon cages and the rear bag tip bars and a good soft luggage rack. I am six foot 2 inches and both the Connie and the NT fit me fine...maybe I will need a new wind screen like I have for the NT and the Connie?

4. There is no way I am selling the NT as I love it and as I feel in not too many years, I may need a lighter, smaller bike due old age, so this new bike would help keep the milage off of it....the Connie is a great bike but I would probably let it go as I just wouldnt ride it that much.....and you never know when someone will come up with a sport touring bike I just cant live without....but if anyone has anything to add in favor of the FJR, I would appreciate hearing about it...a number of our seasoned citizens over at the NT forum own and enjoy them....

There are leftover 2014 FJRs still out there but like the 2010 NTs, they will disappear....I probably have some months to make a decision here but not years....thanks to all in advance for your imput!

The old Coyote

 

[Wemi]

(Uncle Hud suggested I re-post my original post on another part of this forum and he is right so here goes)
Hello, I am Coyote Chris from Spokane. I am 66 years young, have been riding for 50 years and touring for 45, ride about 8,000 miles a year, and currently own a 2010 Honda NT-700v and a 2003 Kawasaki Concours. The Connie is a nice bike but I find in my advanced years, I enjoy the NT (with the big panniers) as a touring bike also as it has great low speed handling, unlike the Connie with a full fuel load and 100 lbs of touring stuff. My old hands can still manage the Connie's clutch although I wouldnt want one much stiffer.....An ST1300 is just too much bike for me, mostly cause it weighs too much.

I have always admired the FJR but I tend to stew about bikes for quite awhile before I purchase them. And I'm not gettting any younger. The left over new 2014's have been speaking to me for a few months now. I really like red bikes. But as you all know by now, the 2016 will have a 6 speed tranny with an "assisted slipper clutch" which is geared taller.

I wish the M/C dealers around the Spokane CDA area had an FJR I could sit on and try the clutch force but everyone is out of them. I would value your opinions on a number of aspects of the bike, especially those of you that have cockpit time in a Kawasaki Concours.

1. Would you say that the FJR feels like it has more low speed stability than the Connie? I get various numbers about how much a wet FJR weighs....mostly around 640-680 lbs. The Connie isnt much more than that but it carries its seven gallons of fuel up high...I have never dumped the Connie in 40,000 miles but like I say, my body isnt getting any younger.

2. How would you charactorize the clutch force of the FJR?

3. If I got an FJR, I would get the canyon cages and the rear bag tip bars and a good soft luggage rack. I am six foot 2 inches and both the Connie and the NT fit me fine...maybe I will need a new wind screen like I have for the NT and the Connie?

4. There is no way I am selling the NT as I love it and as I feel in not too many years, I may need a lighter, smaller bike due old age, so this new bike would help keep the milage off of it....the Connie is a great bike but I would probably let it go as I just wouldnt ride it that much.....and you never know when someone will come up with a sport touring bike I just cant live without....but if anyone has anything to add in favor of the FJR, I would appreciate hearing about it...a number of our seasoned citizens over at the NT forum own and enjoy them....

There are leftover 2014 FJRs still out there but like the 2010 NTs, they will disappear....I probably have some months to make a decision here but not years....thanks to all in advance for your imput!

The old Coyote

Interesting post. I am around 10 years older than you and have owned and sold a 2010 new Connie and four FJR"s of which I still own 2. Also had a 2008 Goldwing and currently own a BMW K16 as well. I also have had both hip joints replaced so I believe I am somewhat qualified to speak to heavy bikes and older riders.

First let me say that I do own a 2015ES purchased new with now around 9K miles on it. With canyon cages, pannier protection bars, Yamaha OEM top case and CB 21" dark tint windscreen, Yoshimura pipes, Corbin dual heated seats and on and on. The bike is flawless after much initial setup work from multiple TBS to replacing the entire clutch and pressure plate assembly with a Barnett system to fix the sticking problem associated with incorrectly assembled clutch systems from the factory. That said, the clutch pull on the stock FJR is simply notorious. I do have an assisted wet slipper clutch system on the K16 and it's a world away from the FJR. it's like a car with and without power steering.

The Connie's wet clutch system was NOT that much better than the FJR's. I sold it because they didn't get the electronic (fly by wire) throttle system right. No way to evenly apply the throttle from a starting position. Since fixed in 2012 with remapped ECU software. As for stability the Connie was fine. The DUAL rear fork with their patented anti lift shaft drive is a great system. Better than the FJR and IMHO much better than the paralever system on the single swing arm BMW. It tends to drift the bike to the left or right depending on load and road conditions and electronic suspension setup.

As to weight, all these bikes are in the family of heavy touring machines. Whether they weigh 650 or 925 pounds. When they start to go over you will not hold any of them. The only solution to that is another family of bikes like Yamaha's excellent FJ09 series. Etc.

IMHO the FJR represents the best compromise between agility, comfort, power, craftsmanship and reliably. Thanks to a robust aftermarket industry that bike can pretty much be set up to the individual owners taste. The others represent possible technical advantages, but one, Yamaha is catching up with the 2016 model year, and two seems to be listening to the owners group. For instance to this day the Connie does NOT have cruise control. On a 1400cc, 163 hp touring machine?? But it does have keyless go and TPMS. Hallo Yamaha, are you listening?

 

[El Toro]

My Dad was an aircraft tooling specialist for Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank during WWII and did a lot of work on P-38 tooling (as well as most Lockheed aircraft at the time). I also got to meet Tony LeVier several times and had nice conversations with the gentleman. Yes, my favorite aircraft as well.
Dan

My grandfather might have known him. He worked at the Gleason Works designing the machine tools that were used to manufacture gears, but when the war broke out he went out to work at Lockheed in Burbank. He told me that the prop drive for the P-38 had resonant vibration issues, and before they got it worked out, a few of the test planes were lost. He said that that was one of the projects that he worked on.

I remember building an Aurora scale model of the P-38. The twin fuselage idea made the model stand out, although obviously, since it wasn't duplicated in later aircraft, it was an idea whose time had not really come.

 

[Coyote Chris]

(Uncle Hud suggested I re-post my original post on another part of this forum and he is right so here goes)
Hello, I am Coyote Chris from Spokane. I am 66 years young, have been riding for 50 years and touring for 45, ride about 8,000 miles a year, and currently own a 2010 Honda NT-700v and a 2003 Kawasaki Concours. The Connie is a nice bike but I find in my advanced years, I enjoy the NT (with the big panniers) as a touring bike also as it has great low speed handling, unlike the Connie with a full fuel load and 100 lbs of touring stuff. My old hands can still manage the Connie's clutch although I wouldnt want one much stiffer.....An ST1300 is just too much bike for me, mostly cause it weighs too much.

I have always admired the FJR but I tend to stew about bikes for quite awhile before I purchase them. And I'm not gettting any younger. The left over new 2014's have been speaking to me for a few months now. I really like red bikes. But as you all know by now, the 2016 will have a 6 speed tranny with an "assisted slipper clutch" which is geared taller.

I wish the M/C dealers around the Spokane CDA area had an FJR I could sit on and try the clutch force but everyone is out of them. I would value your opinions on a number of aspects of the bike, especially those of you that have cockpit time in a Kawasaki Concours.

1. Would you say that the FJR feels like it has more low speed stability than the Connie? I get various numbers about how much a wet FJR weighs....mostly around 640-680 lbs. The Connie isnt much more than that but it carries its seven gallons of fuel up high...I have never dumped the Connie in 40,000 miles but like I say, my body isnt getting any younger.

2. How would you charactorize the clutch force of the FJR?

3. If I got an FJR, I would get the canyon cages and the rear bag tip bars and a good soft luggage rack. I am six foot 2 inches and both the Connie and the NT fit me fine...maybe I will need a new wind screen like I have for the NT and the Connie?

4. There is no way I am selling the NT as I love it and as I feel in not too many years, I may need a lighter, smaller bike due old age, so this new bike would help keep the milage off of it....the Connie is a great bike but I would probably let it go as I just wouldnt ride it that much.....and you never know when someone will come up with a sport touring bike I just cant live without....but if anyone has anything to add in favor of the FJR, I would appreciate hearing about it...a number of our seasoned citizens over at the NT forum own and enjoy them....

There are leftover 2014 FJRs still out there but like the 2010 NTs, they will disappear....I probably have some months to make a decision here but not years....thanks to all in advance for your imput!

The old Coyote

Interesting post. I am around 10 years older than you and have owned and sold a 2010 new Connie and four FJR"s of which I still own 2. Also had a 2008 Goldwing and currently own a BMW K16 as well. I also have had both hip joints replaced so I believe I am somewhat qualified to speak to heavy bikes and older riders.

First let me say that I do own a 2015ES purchased new with now around 9K miles on it. With canyon cages, pannier protection bars, Yamaha OEM top case and CB 21" dark tint windscreen, Yoshimura pipes, Corbin dual heated seats and on and on. The bike is flawless after much initial setup work from multiple TBS to replacing the entire clutch and pressure plate assembly with a Barnett system to fix the sticking problem associated with incorrectly assembled clutch systems from the factory. That said, the clutch pull on the stock FJR is simply notorious. I do have an assisted wet slipper clutch system on the K16 and it's a world away from the FJR. it's like a car with and without power steering.

The Connie's wet clutch system was NOT that much better than the FJR's. I sold it because they didn't get the electronic (fly by wire) throttle system right. No way to evenly apply the throttle from a starting position. Since fixed in 2012 with remapped ECU software. As for stability the Connie was fine. The DUAL rear fork with their patented anti lift shaft drive is a great system. Better than the FJR and IMHO much better than the paralever system on the single swing arm BMW. It tends to drift the bike to the left or right depending on load and road conditions and electronic suspension setup.

As to weight, all these bikes are in the family of heavy touring machines. Whether they weigh 650 or 925 pounds. When they start to go over you will not hold any of them. The only solution to that is another family of bikes like Yamaha's excellent FJ09 series. Etc.

IMHO the FJR represents the best compromise between agility, comfort, power, craftsmanship and reliably. Thanks to a robust aftermarket industry that bike can pretty much be set up to the individual owners taste. The others represent possible technical advantages, but one, Yamaha is catching up with the 2016 model year, and two seems to be listening to the owners group. For instance to this day the Connie does NOT have cruise control. On a 1400cc, 163 hp touring machine?? But it does have keyless go and TPMS. Hallo Yamaha, are you listening?

Good report. If you can get the Japanese MC makers to listen, let me know....C10 Connie folk tried for years to get simple, no brainer stuff fixed on the C10 during its long production life...even talking to Kaw folk at the annual rallys, and it did no good..so we just ended up doing our own mods...American Honda refused to import certain NT accessories they offered in Europe for years...so we ended up ordering the parts from Europe....They pretty much seem to be "my way or highway" folk....

 

[Coyote Chris]

My Dad was an aircraft tooling specialist for Lockheed Aircraft in Burbank during WWII and did a lot of work on P-38 tooling (as well as most Lockheed aircraft at the time). I also got to meet Tony LeVier several times and had nice conversations with the gentleman. Yes, my favorite aircraft as well.
Dan

My grandfather might have known him. He worked at the Gleason Works designing the machine tools that were used to manufacture gears, but when the war broke out he went out to work at Lockheed in Burbank. He told me that the prop drive for the P-38 had resonant vibration issues, and before they got it worked out, a few of the test planes were lost. He said that that was one of the projects that he worked on.

I remember building an Aurora scale model of the P-38. The twin fuselage idea made the model stand out, although obviously, since it wasn't duplicated in later aircraft, it was an idea whose time had not really come.

Hadnt heard about any Electric prop issues on the Allisons as far as vibration but there could have been some...the elevator stabilizers fixed one vibration issue....just to show you how old I am, I used to get Comet balsa and tissue models of the P-38 with almost a 36 in wingspan (well, it was big!) for a dollar......circa 1960. I have seen that plane in your avatar, the old Lefty Gardner White Lightning, do aerobatics at the reno races as well as race....