FJR will not run.

[Judd]

Welp, good news {at least for me}. The bike is running again but the bad news is we don't really know exactly why it crapped out. The mechanic decided to de-carbon the interior of the ports with some carb cleaner type of stuff pretty much like Sea Foam and left it to soak overnight. The next day he squirted some oil in each cylinder, buttoned everything up, cranked it over with 24Vs and hit it with some ether. It started and ran,,,,, and will do repeatedly as normal.

Honestly I don't think anyone knows exactly what happened but I think I've got a decent hypothesis. The previous owner had installed a gear indicator and a some crazy looking woo loo lights {green neon lookin crap} and he tapped into the harness right before it connects to the computer and he did the tapping with some hooky no solder wire taps. He also busted the little clip thing that keeps the wiring harness connector attached to the computer. Possibly,,, possibly one those taps grounded, lost continuity or whatever and killed the electrical. Possibly,,, {once again with that possibly thing} the connector pulled ever so slightly loose from the computer just enough to make an open circuit. I asked the mechanic to de-install that crap. In any event,, the engine shut completely down so I'm pretty sure it was an electrical problem preventing ignition or fueling.

I think that continually cranking the thing scrapped all the oil from the cylinder walls and that contributed to the low compression possibly {remember, that has actually happened to me so I know it happens}. The mechanic still stands by his assertion that it was losing compression past the valves? His assertion was that carbon build up ran down between the valve and the seat while we were doing all that cranking and that is what held the valves off their seat resulting in low compression. Which opinion is right??? Dunno,,,, prolly a bit of both maybe????

Maybe sometime during the trouble shooting, the electrical problem went away due to me or him wiggling wiring trying to check fuses and connections and that is why it had both spark and fuel when he got around to checking it. Then,,,, possibly the lack of compression reared it head and Murphy had a field day with me and everyone else that was trying to figure this crap out.

I'm still not buying the deposit thing as the initial problem because it started and ran as normal. No way deposits could have made it's way to each cylinder and held at least one valve open because the engine shut down completely as if you hit the kill switch. Now possibly,,,,, sometime after the initial problem shut the engine down, deposits made their way down and did indeed throw a monkey in the wrench. Aggravating and confusing as all get out and I hope I don't have this again. For some reason, I have a knack for having weird, complicated mechanical problems jump my arse. Oh, well,,,, ya live and ya learn. Well,,,, didn't learn much this time, at least nothing concrete and that sorta sucks. I was hoping to have some grand remedy to give ya'll and be able to help the next FJR owner out but I honestly think that this whole ordeal was a result of a multiple issues and I can't really point to any one of those issues with any degree of certainty and say that was the problem.

I have to hand it to the mechanic, this was a hair puller and even though he had his opinions he also was willing to keep an open mind and kept trying to fix the problem no matter where the ideas came from. Not many mechanics will do that and I think that is what makes the difference between a mediocre mechanic and a really good one.

It still needs some gaskets and a few other things done but at least it is now cranking and starting. Should get it back by the middle of next week. Oh, BTW,,,,, the valve clearances were fine. So,,, after 37K miles the Yamaha valve train was still in tolerance. Not too shabby I reckon.

 

[C&C]

Connector at the ECM gets my vote. Open circuit there is just like an open switch. This makes the most sense. The low compression was a symptom of the original condition (as you asserted). Glad you're back on the road.

 

[fjrinbc]

Judd, I am happy for you that your FJR is back in running condition.

BUT...........

If your 'ace' mechanic in fact

cranked it over with 24Vs and hit it with some ether [unquote] then he is a "poo-poo head". [Edited on 13Aug07 to replace harsh words. "Harsh words cause bad feelings", Momma says. I did not mean to offend. ]
He is a lucky mechanic and not a good one. I find it amazing the ECU (and other electrics) didn't puke out a little puff of death smoke.

Happy riding.

 

[Judd]

He is neither a ******* idiot nor is he lucky.

I never said he was an "Ace mechanic". I will say the he and another Yamaha mechanic that was voted a "Yamaha Mechanic of the year" both talked it over and couldn't really come to a absolute solution. As for the "cranked it over with 24Vs and hit it with ether" bit,,, the starter system is segregatted fron the rest of the elctrical system so 24Vs did not in fact go through the computer. Had it did,,, it probably would have smoked it. It may not be "text book" but the bottom line is that it worked. I have done it myself when initially starting high compression engines {especially the old school stuff with rope seal} and as long as you are not sending 24Vs through the computer it's not detrimental.

Look,,, if any of you have never been stumped by a problem {or as in this case, maybe a couple of different problems} then either you have not been a mechanic for very long, you are ful of sheit or you are god. Like I said, I;m not saying the mechanic is a jewel nor am I going to run him in the ground. I'm a decent mechanic and I;m in QA where part of my job is root cause analisis and I can tell you right now this was no simple easy diagnostic. It's easy as hell to arm chair quaterback from behind a computer, something else when it's happening to you and you are the one trying to figure it out.

I do not think the mechanic is negligent in this no more than I thought the mechanic was at fault when my Buick GN had an agonizingly irritating electrical problem that ended up being an almost broken cam sensor wire. Had the wire broke completely, it would have been no problem figuring out. But it was not completely broken and that little wire cost me hours of flustration and two different GM mechanics hours of irritation. Wasn't their fault no more than I think this cluster ***** can be layed on this mechanics door step. Bottom line,,,,,,,,,, crap happens and sometimes it's not really anyone's fault.

 

[Judd]

Update.

The mechanic lobbied for and got Yamaha pay for new valve guides. After roughly 2-3K miles all is good. No more "self starting" problems and I have purposly pressure washed it at the car wash several times. No more "no start" conditions,,, run perfrectly as before. All I can say it that if I had to guess,,, the connector at the computer was the culprit. Just wish I knew for sure what caused this fiasco.

 

[Bounce]

And the moral of the story is? Never wash your bike with a high pressure washer or while the engine is hot.

+1 (with my personal corrections)

The previous owner had installed... and a some... and he tapped into the harness... with some hooky no solder wire taps. He also busted the little clip thing that keeps the wiring harness connector attached to the computer.

tapping into the OEM harness can lead to weak points in your system that are subject to weathering, vibration, and (as you mentioned) high pressure water. best to keep the OEM harness as pristine as possible to avoid such risks. hopefully the dealer sealed things up right and tight when he removed the mods.

 

[Zorlac]

"I have purposly pressure washed it at the car wash several times."

You're truly a brave man.

When I have a problem, it's usually related to the last thing I did.

Hope it stays fixed for ya.

 

[Judd]

"I have purposly pressure washed it at the car wash several times."
You're truly a brave man.

When I have a problem, it's usually related to the last thing I did.

Hope it stays fixed for ya.

Not brave,,,, just don't think the sky will fall if I wash the bike. I've been washing bikes, cars,

engine bays and interiors when the grime call for it for over 20 years. In that twenty years of using a pressure washer the worst damage I've cause is the odd wet distributor or sparkplug boots.

I mentioned washing the bike because some thought the problem could have been caused by the ignition switch getting wet from the car wash. Ignition switches just don't "get better" on their own and considering that I've purposely gotten it wet just to see if that was it,,, I really don't think that was the issue. Like I said, it was most likely the computer harness connection that got loose.

 

[painman]

Judd, glad you're riding around now with no major problems. I like many here don't like to wash the bike under any type of pressure. Although I know that Harley, don't know Yamaha's testing, but HD runs their bikes under high pressure water in an enclosed booth for 24 hours with the engine running to make sure the electrics are sound on their test bikes. So really the belief of not washing the bikes at the local car wash, while for 5 minutes probably won't hurt. Though I still won't do it. The only other thing I might mention is the starter switch on most any FJR seems to me to be weak in construction and durability and something to keep an eye on. Just food for thought for future reference. Just enjoy the ride and nice write up......PM. <><

 

[Geezer]

The problems that can be caused by power washing do not end with electrical components. The grease used on the wheel bearings and pivot points is water soluble.

 

[Judd]

The problems that can be caused by power washing do not end with electrical components. The grease used on the wheel bearings and pivot points is water soluble.

Yep, I would suppose that would be a problem IF you took the wad and pointed it directly at the wheel bearings {they are fairly well sealed} or pivot points from something like a couple of inches away, same with the instrument cluster. I don't do that and I don't think most people would. To me, there is not enough of a problem to beat the convenience of the coin wash. If I had repeatedly had water intrusion/corrosion problems over these twenty years I would probably rethink that but like I said earlier. I have been using car wash/pressure washers for over 20 years and the worst problem I've had is a wet distributor cap or spark plugs. The sky doesn't catch fire when I go to the car wash,,, least for me. If you don't use em, cool by me.

 

[evilmedic13]

The problems that can be caused by power washing do not end with electrical components. The grease used on the wheel bearings and pivot points is water soluble.

Yep, I would suppose that would be a problem IF you took the wad and pointed it directly at the wheel bearings {they are fairly well sealed} or pivot points from something like a couple of inches away, same with the instrument cluster. I don't do that and I don't think most people would. To me, there is not enough of a problem to beat the convenience of the coin wash. If I had repeatedly had water intrusion/corrosion problems over these twenty years I would probably rethink that but like I said earlier. I have been using car wash/pressure washers for over 20 years and the worst problem I've had is a wet distributor cap or spark plugs. The sky doesn't catch fire when I go to the car wash,,, least for me. If you don't use em, cool by me.

What wad are you talking about? I don't use it for THAT! That is one serious bladder

 

[protondecay123]

Bottom line,,,,,,,,,, crap happens and sometimes it's not really anyone's fault.

+1

People tend to forget that little fact of life. Alway's have to have someone to blame.

 

[FJRScorpion]

I can count the time on one hand when any motorcycle or car mechanic has actually resolved a trouble issue satisfactorily. This includes dealers and backyard mechanics. I've just come to accept it as a symptom of the complexity of the technology in our lives.

 

[Mr. Underhill]

Just wanted to add my $.02. I kind of had this same issue yesterday and today. I had done no recent changes to the FJR other than changing the front tire out, and it had set for about 30 days. (Yeah, I know, crappy weather) I went to start it up and it fired for just about 3 seconds and then died. First time it had ever done this. I immediately tried to restart it, cranked the starter for 3-5 seconds in intervals about 12 times. I then held the throttle wide open a few times and cranked it to see if it had flooded, no avail. All total, about 20 attempts to start it back again. Nothing would work to start it.

Let it sit overnight and put it back on the Battery Tender to refresh the tired battery. Tried it again today and same deal. Cranked it a few times and nothing. I was about to start pulling plastic and dive into fuses when I thought about trying starting fluid. I sprayed it as close as I could approximate the intake horn toward the rear of the bike without taking off plastic, then waited 30 seconds or so for it to "gas," and then cranked again several times. Still nothing.

Finally, I shut the key off, held the throttle wide open, turned the key back on, just touched the started and it roared. It was 7K RPM before I could even release the throttle. Obviously the ether had hit by this time. It was running great!

I let it warm up and then shut it down and restarted a few times to see if was a chronic issue, but no more problems starting.

Additional info:

New plugs in August, only 2500 miles on them, they are NGK Iridium.

Stock air filter, 11K or so on it. (It's due, but looks perfect)

Non-ethanol 87 octane fuel as best I can tell. Last filled in October, tank nearly full.

No ECM mods other than the Barbarian mod. Moved CO2 numbers all up 7 clicks per the general forum consensus. This was done 4K miles ago and no negatives.

Was 63 degrees temp yesterday during the 3 second run. Was 35 degrees tonight when it started.

So hope this might help anyone with similar issues in the future. I really had a hard time understanding why the heck this happened, I have routinely started the FJR and warmed the engine or ridden during the winters as I have in the past with all my bikes and, as I mentioned, this had never happened before on the FJR.

Weird, but all better now. :clapping: :yahoo:

 

[painman]

Not real clear Mr. Underhill. Did you wash your bike before the last storage and then it wouldn't start? Not sure what your problem was. Thanks. PM. <><

 

[radman]

Underhill, ya flooded it. The wide open throttle while cranking is the classic fix-it for a flooded engine, especially effective in injected engines because it shuts down the injectors while cranking. The trick is to not let it flood on a cold start. Try "flooded engine" in search and you'll find tons of advise available, some even contributed by me... :glare:

 

[Mr. Underhill]

Underhill, ya flooded it.

OK, I read a few of the flooding posts, still seems a bit odd that it would fire then die, and not restart. Most of the flooding posts seem to be about not firing at all. I didn't smell any gas either, so didn't think it would be flooded. However, a lot of the posts seem to indicate that this is a common problem, so must have been it.

Still a weird deal is that I tried holding throttle wide open for several tries over the two day period, but no luck until the ether.

Thanks!

 

[radman]

OK, I read a few of the flooding posts, still seems a bit odd that it would fire then die, and not restart. Most of the flooding posts seem to be about not firing at all. I didn't smell any gas either, so didn't think it would be flooded. However, a lot of the posts seem to indicate that this is a common problem, so must have been it.
Still a weird deal is that I tried holding throttle wide open for several tries over the two day period, but no luck until the ether.

Thanks!

On the other hand, there have been instances of air in the fuel rail causing starting problems, be it due to a fault in the pump circuit, or low fuel pressure caused by a regulator issue or what have you. If flooding is not suspected, try cycling the key on-off, pausing at the on for the 2-3 seconds the pump will run before shutting off. This will fully load the rail, if there's gas in the tank, and the pump works, it should light off. FJR's always seem to have trouble getting going if they don't start right off, for a myriad of reasons it seems-the foremost being starting it then quickly shutting it off before it has a chance to warm up. This leaves quite a bit raw fuel in the chambers, and promotes condensation there also, making the next attempt to start iffy at best, especially if the plugs have a lot of time on them.

 

[S76]

Underhill, ya flooded it.

Still a weird deal is that I tried holding throttle wide open for several tries over the two day period, but no luck until the ether.

Thanks!

I had no luck holding the throttle open either to clear the engine. I just raised the front of the tank and unplugged the fuel pump and it cleared in a few seconds and sputtered. Then I plugged it back in and it started right up.