FJRF009.0: Ground Spider Research

[Grumpy]

I think Grumpy has the right idea, replace the spider with a non corrosive one. I know almost nothing about electronics other than a HS class. Are they that uncommon that someone does not make replacements that would work?

My guess is that you can only get these from Yamaha. Looks like a they were made in a progressive sheet metal punch press die. Yamaha could make a run using brass stock thru the same die.

I've seen this kind of thing, tin plated steel electrical connectors, and it nevers turns out well. It was some engineer's wet dream that saved pennys.....dumb.

 

[RadioHowie]

C' mon, Jim....tell us how you REALLY feel. We're among friends.

(BTW, Frankenbike is one STRONG MOFO, and I haven't forgotten your parts...just procrastinating)

 

[Opelgt]

Katy Yamaha in Katy Texas, Service Manager said he has seen several cooroded and melted down connectorsm but only the one under the tank fwd-left side.

Just some info for you all.

 

[Fred W]

Very interesting.

In some of the pictures I have seen of the failed harnesses, the wire insulation and in some cases the metal conductors themselves appear to have been overheated and melted for quite a distance up the length of wire from the connector. That suggests that the spider is getting very, very hot. Perhaps to the point that there could be a fire in a most inappropriate place (near the fuel tank). Unless we are also trying to jam a whole bunch of current through those wires just having a bad connection shouldn't melt the wires.

It sure would be of great interest to know exactly what devices are getting their grounds through that one spider that seems to want to self destruct.

 

[Rogue]

Very interesting.
In some of the pictures I have seen of the failed harnesses, the wire insulation and in some cases the metal conductors themselves appear to have been overheated and melted for quite a distance up the length of wire from the connector. That suggests that the spider is getting very, very hot. Perhaps to the point that there could be a fire in a most inappropriate place (near the fuel tank). Unless we are also trying to jam a whole bunch of current through those wires just having a bad connection shouldn't melt the wires.

It sure would be of great interest to know exactly what devices are getting their grounds through that one spider that seems to want to self destruct.

As an electrician I have seen many cases of wires overheated and burnt up quite a ways from bad connections when the amperage is far below the rating of the wires.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Very interesting.
In some of the pictures I have seen of the failed harnesses, the wire insulation and in some cases the metal conductors themselves appear to have been overheated and melted for quite a distance up the length of wire from the connector. That suggests that the spider is getting very, very hot. Perhaps to the point that there could be a fire in a most inappropriate place (near the fuel tank). Unless we are also trying to jam a whole bunch of current through those wires just having a bad connection shouldn't melt the wires.

It sure would be of great interest to know exactly what devices are getting their grounds through that one spider that seems to want to self destruct.

As an electrician I have seen many cases of wires overheated and burnt up quite a ways from bad connections when the amperage is far below the rating of the wires.

As an accident investigator, I'd say the same. As the resistance increases, the heat increases. The copper oxidizes faster with heat, so you get into a loop (heat, resistance, more heat, etc) and this is a symptom.

 

[bramfrank]

<Edit>: December 24, 2009

[SIZE=18pt]Consider the potential consequences of a spontaneous engine shutdown while in high speed traffic.[/SIZE]

Consider the consequences of a complete lighting failure while negotiating a remote twisting road 'at speed', late at night.

Consider the potential fire hazard resulting from the overheated wiring.

Does someone need to die before this gets forcibly resolved?

[SIZE=18pt]Enough already. [/SIZE]

SOMEONE has to step up and take this to the authorities - over a hundred reportedly affected bikes and this is a serious issue with life-threatenning implications. I'd do it myself if I was in the USA, but I'm not, so . . . SOMEONE? ANYONE?

[SIZE=10pt]Merry Christmas - </edit>[/SIZE]

 

[Checkswrecks]

I hear a lot of belly aches and moaning, but just searched and found only three US NHTSA complaints. That's after going through all of the NHTSA complaints for 2006-2010 and the 4 ways that FJRs can be listed. There're lots of complaints about ignition switches, which this forum worked on to get a successful redesign and recall. There are a lot of NHTSA complaints filed for altitude & surge & sticking clutches, which are pretty well addressed by now. But for this grounding issue that now has five pages in this thread, there is currently only one single complaint for a 2006, a 2008, and a 2009.

Once again, if you have a problem and do NOT [SIZE=18pt]file a complaint at www.safercar.gov[/SIZE], then you have zero right to come here and demand that "somebody do something". If you think you filed a complaint and it's missing, FOLLOW UP and check on the ODI tracking # that your complaint got or even re-file it. But the SOMEBODY is YOU!!!

As an accident investigator in another mode, I have to ask you... Without data, just what the heck do you think the NHTSA and Yamaha people are, clairvoyant?

:angry:

btw - While I direct this little rant at the US crowd, I know Canada and at least a couple of the EU countries have similar places to file complaints.

 

[yamafitter]

I know what I'll be doing this weekend...

Getting smart and trading up for a Gen I?

Trading, maybe. But not for a Gen I. Or even a Yamaha for that matter. Perhaps something Italian in black. Maybe red... :lol:

You appear to be unaware that the Italian electrics were the only thing that made Lucas electrics look good in comparison.

I believe it is the Italians' choice of using whole wheat spagetti as wiring.

I retired as a Instrument Technician repairing nuclear reactors and I am in agreement with the suggestion of removing the offending connector, twisting and soldering the wires together and protecting the wiring with heat shrink. If you use the 'nuclear grade' Rachem heat shrink it comes with inner liner of soft waterproof material that forms a completely watertight seal when the heat shrink is heated over the connection.

 

[vabrzn]

For what it's worth I checked around 6 or 7 ground spiders on my 07 ( 60,000 miles) and didn't find any corrosion or heat damage.

I run heated gear, magnum blasters, gps, and aux lights; off of a fuse block. Regularly ride in the rain too.

 

[bmwhd]

For what it's worth I checked around 6 or 7 ground spiders on my 07 ( 60,000 miles) and didn't find any corrosion or heat damage.
I run heated gear, magnum blasters, gps, and aux lights; off of a fuse block. Regularly ride in the rain too.

Same story on my '06 at about 18k miles. No issues even with all my farkles. However, I do run all farkle grounds direct to the battery but I don't know if that makes a difference in this case or not.

 

[JamesK]

Yep....have one gigantic, plodding, glacial bureaucracy instruct another gigantic, plodding, glacial bureaucracy on how to fix something.

And don't forget how many $%$@*# were caused by so many incompetent dealers replacing something as straight forward as the ignition switch, can you just imagine how many problems these useless SOBs are going generate if they had to change the wiring harness or at least install new termination blocks, I'd bet this is possibly one of the main reasons Yamaha is not willing to acknowledge the ground spiders as a problem.

 

[JamesK]

For what it's worth I checked around 6 or 7 ground spiders on my 07 ( 60,000 miles) and didn't find any corrosion or heat damage.
I run heated gear, magnum blasters, gps, and aux lights; off of a fuse block. Regularly ride in the rain too.

vabrzn, this post is not aimed at you per se, but please note my experience below:

I have, only a few months ago checked all the ground spiders on my '07 with 76k. All the spiders and their connectors were in perfect condition, the metal was shiny and the plastic nice and white. I spayed the inside of each connector with electrical contact cleaner spray and applied liberal amounts of dielectric grease to all the spiders and their connectors.

From what "we" knew at the time about this problem the above procedures were supposed to be the complete fix. Well today the front left spider (the usual suspect) decided to make my day more exciting than it was up to that point but "killing" my bike about 1/2 way through a left turn at an intersection. Luckily I didn't panic and had sufficient momentum to coast through the remainder of the intersection and to the side of the road. Also lucky is the fact that this happened today/now and not a couple of days ago when I was riding up in the mountains of GA/NC/TN.

For the record, I'm running the fixed ignition switch and the Broadie relay.

I will be performing the fix (and this looks to be the final solution) described by Bob/S76 documented here:

Ground Spider By-pass

And the Smitty solution of soldering all the spider wires I can easily reach, which I guess means all but the two under the front cowl that Mcatrophy showed.

 

[bramfrank]

I've just sent PMs to each of the posters in this thread who said they'd had issues asking that they file reports with the NHTSA - that is some 18 people.

But clearly, with 115 poll responses to date, and allowing for 'mispolls' from people who fill in polls before reading the instructions, there are probably 80 or so people who have NOT been contacted.

Someone WILL get hurt, if only because they drop their bike when the problem occurs, but it can be a lot worse. And if someone is killed, you can be certain that they'll never figure out that it was due to a grounding problem because bike accidents aren't investigated the way plane crashes are.

[SIZE=18pt]We have to protect ourselves.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]So please get out there and file at [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]www.safercar.gov[/SIZE]

 

[Ignacio]

Once again, if you have a problem and do NOT [SIZE=18pt]file a complaint at www.safercar.gov[/SIZE], then you have zero right to come here and demand that "somebody do something". If you think you filed a complaint and it's missing, FOLLOW UP and check on the ODI tracking # that your complaint got or even re-file it. But the SOMEBODY is YOU!!!
.....

btw - While I direct this little rant at the US crowd, I know Canada and at least a couple of the EU countries have similar places to file complaints.

I have to +1/Gunny/yea verily this point. He knows of what he speaks. :fan_1:

I've been watching this thread and it seems increasingly obvious the thread starter and this community is on to something here. Accordingly, I've tweaked the title of the thread with issue number FJRF009...a number we've reserved for the few serious and recognizable issues of the bike.

As we learned from the ignition switch issue the resolution wasn't because people made calls to file lawsuits, questioning the moral fiber of bureacrats, or storming Cypress with torches and pitchforks....but because there was HARD data gathered in a thorough, methodical, and reasonably dispassionate method.

I also hope those that have been affected DO report it to NHTSA or whatever your government agency is.

 

[vabrzn]

For what it's worth I checked around 6 or 7 ground spiders on my 07 ( 60,000 miles) and didn't find any corrosion or heat damage.
I run heated gear, magnum blasters, gps, and aux lights; off of a fuse block. Regularly ride in the rain too.

vabrzn, this post is not aimed at you per se, but please note my experience below:

I have, only a few months ago checked all the ground spiders on my '07 with 76k. All the spiders and their connectors were in perfect condition, the metal was shiny and the plastic nice and white. I spayed the inside of each connector with electrical contact cleaner spray and applied liberal amounts of dielectric grease to all the spiders and their connectors.

From what "we" knew at the time about this problem the above procedures were supposed to be the complete fix. Well today the front left spider (the usual suspect) decided to make my day more exciting than it was up to that point but "killing" my bike about 1/2 way through a left turn at an intersection. Luckily I didn't panic and had sufficient momentum to coast through the remainder of the intersection and to the side of the road. Also lucky is the fact that this happened today/now and not a couple of days ago when I was riding up in the mountains of GA/NC/TN.

For the record, I'm running the fixed ignition switch and the Broadie relay.

I will be performing the fix (and this looks to be the final solution) described by Bob/S76 documented here:

Ground Spider By-pass

And the Smitty solution of soldering all the spider wires I can easily reach, which I guess means all but the two under the front cowl that Mcatrophy showed.

I'll be keeping an eye on that spider under the tank ! Thanks

 

[Harald]

Add me to the list of grounding spider failure riders! :angry2:

As I reported in THIS thread, my failed spider was the one above the left headlight. There's a picture in the thread.

Now I'm off to safercar.gov to file a report.....

 

[smitty141]

I've just sent PMs to each of the posters in this thread who said they'd had issues asking that they file reports with the NHTSA - that is some 18 people.
But clearly, with 115 poll responses, and allowing for 'mispolls' from people who fill in polls before reading the instructions, there are probably 80 or so people who have NOT been contacted.

Someone WILL get hurt, if only because they drop their bike when the problem occurs, but it can be a lot worse. And if someone is killed, you can be certain that they'll never figure out that it was due to a grounding problem because bike accidents aren't investigated the way plane crashes are.

[SIZE=18pt]We have to protect ourselves.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]So please get out there and file at [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]www.safercar.gov[/SIZE]

That is what I was hoping for in this thread.

poll

To remind guys to report this... But it looks like as long as Mother Yamaha gives them a new wire harness, there happy. There will never be a recall only a handful of riders file a report. :angry2: Just remember the motorcycle you love... you will hate when your in the middle of BFE and hundreds of miles from home when it quits... and watch those sorry *** BMW riders ride pass waving... :****: <_<

Smitty

 

[happyPuppy]

It might be a good idea to remind dealers to pass the info on to Yamaha also. In the thread Katy Yamaha is mentioned as having several issues they fixed and they may think it is just a few bikes they encounter, and unless they are under Y.E.S. they might never know of an issue otherwise.

 

[JamesK]

Six Seven that I know of.Under the tank, front left. The one that seems the most common to give a problem

Two more on the left under the tank (might be associated with the electric shift, not sure):

One front right of tank:

Two up front:

Any more, anyone?

I know there is one more ground spider near the ECU plug, it is clearly visible when you remove the left side "FJR" panel. Will add a picture of this one once I get the panels off.

Here it is: