FJRForum Official 2015 Iron Butt Rally Tracking/Analysis thread

[rPGoatBoy]

This Iron Butt Rally has been spectacular to watch, congrats to all who participated.

SO, if I understand correctly:

14 FJRs started the rally

15 FJRs finished the rally (thanks to Twigg's generosity)

The only reported problems I read about was a ****** deteriorated o-ring on the oil filler cap, and a fork issue solved in between legs #1 and #2 with some fantastic overnight support from local forum members.

Were there any other bike manufacturers that didn't have a drop out due to mechanical issues?

If that doesn't sell bikes for Yamaha, I don't know what will.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Was just thinking bout how tight Eric and Josh were in points. Wondered if Jim Owen had made the group photo, if it's have mattered. He was nearly 5,000 point behind Erik Lipps, so unlikely. Though I admit, I'm not sure what the bonus was worth. But after talking to a rider, it sounds like that would have been a very high point bonus that would have likely gotten more attention. But then it caught my eye how close in points some of these riders were. Two real close, gap, two real close, gap. Bertram bested Brooks by only 12 points!

By the way, very happy for Barry. He was one of the two riders (Alex Harper being the other) who started in 09 on the Suzuki rotary bikes. Both bikes died fairly early in the rally. Both riders secured other mounts, but only Barry finished. Great guy in general. He stopped for a friend of mine broken down in on I-90 in eastern MT on the ride home from Spokane. His brother correctly diagnosed the problem, but without the needed part, wasn't much he could do. He may have saved my friends from some hassle as well. A pick up truck had also just stopped, but when Barry and his brother stopped, the pick up truck made tracks out of there.

This was an exciting rally to follow and I'm so proud of my friends, all of the riders really, for displaying they got what it takes. Regardless of the final standing positions.

Edit: fine ride by Craig Brooks as well, he climbed in the standings consistently. His wife was fun in Pittsburgh in 09. It was nice to see a photo of her with Craig at the finish.

 

[2DFlier]

"Jewell’s ... fuel pump that had plagued him throughout the final night giving out in the last 200 feet with Eric coasting into the parking lot. Even his bike left it all on the field" - Chris Cimino

Given some of the excrutiating mechanical let downs, especially those on final approach, some things are meant to be. Having suffered his own in '13 I can't imagine what was playing on Eric's mind those final hours.

Great finish to a great rally. Many thanks to FJR Forum for hosting a bunch of FNG and the members for their insights and heroics. All y'all do yourselves and your venerable mechanical dance partner proud.

Back to our regularly scheduled lives...

 

[2DFlier]

Jerome Boyd, the guy with the electrical issues is riding an NT700V. The NC belongs to Hammy Tan.

Just so I know.... What's the difference? I saw both bikes at the start and they intrigued me.

The easier question is what they have in common which is limited to the 700 in their model designation. The motors are completely different.

 

[MCRIDER007]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

It's not clear at this point what went wrong with that phone call. Placing the call is not what gets the points, for those you have to leave the required information. Many of us have experienced difficulties with "Call-In" bonuses. Sometimes those problems are user-error, sometimes a network error and sometimes they might be the fault of the rally systems. I'm guessing that will be investigated later.

That said, giving the points to Josh would actually disadvantage all those riders who did leave the correct message at the appropriate time. On all three legs, virtually all riders did place successful calls to that system, and it recorded them correctly. It suggests quite strongly that it was actually a network error, and like everything else in the IBR, zero allowance is given for bad weather, accidents, traffic and any and all other problems.

To my knowledge Josh is not complaining about this issue. It's really a matter for him, and for the IBA to ensure that their equipment works as intended.

How.....exactly.....could Josh or any other rider.....ensure that the IBA's equipment was working as intended?

 

[NormKern]

So, how many FJRs in the top ten?

How many finished?

How many did not?

Saw that there weren't many DNFs this year, period...

Norm Kern

 

[Warren]

Third leg (final) results are now available on the countdown page.Not an easy task, these riders and this event are both amazing and the math and analysis has been intense.

Big thanks to the many, including Voni Glaves who contributed mathematical, spiritual and karma analysis.

Please don't view if you don't want to see final results, please continue to cheer *ALL* these amazing riders safely back to Albuquerque !

Countdown Page (results at bottom)

RenoJohn, Here is how well you did, Not to bad...

1) Jewell Correct

2) Mountain Correct

3) Slaton -10

4) Owen - 1

5) Schween -10

6) Loftus -6

7) Lilly -1

8) Glaves (Voni)

9) Lipps +5

10 Spaulding -4

 

[Teehaml]

Great Rally. My first to watch from afar.

Now... for that well used Gen1 to make it's way back to Owasso, OK. That bike deserves a trophy all by itself.

 

[Shemp]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Goodman4" data-cid="1244608" data-time="1436588297"><p>

I loved getting caught up in this event this year. Well done riders and IBA! <br />

<br />

The FJR's didn't fare as well as last year, but 2nd, 3rd and 4th is still worth bragging about. <br />

<br />

Top Ten Finishers by manufacturer:<br />

1 Honda<br />

2 Yamaha<br />

3 Yamaha<br />

4 Yamaha<br />

5 BMW<br />

6 BMW<br />

7 BMW<br />

8 BMW<br />

9 BMW<br />

10 Honda</p></blockquote>

 

[Shemp]

Previously stated

14 fjr's started

15 fjr's finished

 

[101stpathfinder]

I do not have time right now to catch up with this post, but I wanted to check in.

This rally just completely rocked!

Some fantastic riding and beautiful views. I was so blessed to experience this time. I will post more when I get back.

PS. HRZ- you are the man!

 

[Bounce]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was in the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens? Once you start making exceptions it gets very messy very quickly.

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the above example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

 

[HotRodZilla]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, **** does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

A glitchy system should not be allowed anywhere near a competition. What if the Olympic's timers didn't get that last race? "Oops, sorry everyone, please run it again." Or as in this event, "Sorry, our timer didn't work. You couldn't have known that, but since you didn't post a time, you're out of the race."

This was a problem that should not have been a problem, and if this IBR was run professionally, it would not have happened. I stand behind my opinion that taking a 1000 point bonus from a rider and then that rider losing by 600 points is bogus. ONLY because the problem was with the organization's equipment. There should be no question that their stuff works, and now there is.

 

[RenoJohn]

Added some new sorts and such.

If anyone wants to fill in the bike type, let me know off list and I'll throw you the spreadsheet and you can throw it back.

also, if you've visited this page before you might have to refresh to get the new .pdf to show ( PC guys ctrl+F5 if you need to )

HERE

 

[marcusorelius]

Was the phone system made by BMW?

 

[beemerdons]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, **** does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

A glitchy system should not be allowed anywhere near a competition. What if the Olympic's timers didn't get that last race? "Oops, sorry everyone, please run it again." Or as in this event, "Sorry, our timer didn't work. You couldn't have known that, but since you didn't post a time, you're out of the race."

This was a problem that should not have been a problem, and if this IBR was run professionally, it would not have happened. I stand behind my opinion that taking a 1000 point bonus from a rider and then that rider losing by 600 points is bogus. ONLY because the problem was with the organization's equipment. There should be no question that their stuff works, and now there is.

+1, Gunny; Extremely Well Stated AJ - 'Zilla, JSNS!

 

[Bungie]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

It's not clear at this point what went wrong with that phone call. Placing the call is not what gets the points, for those you have to leave the required information. Many of us have experienced difficulties with "Call-In" bonuses. Sometimes those problems are user-error, sometimes a network error and sometimes they might be the fault of the rally systems. I'm guessing that will be investigated later.

That said, giving the points to Josh would actually disadvantage all those riders who did leave the correct message at the appropriate time. On all three legs, virtually all riders did place successful calls to that system, and it recorded them correctly. It suggests quite strongly that it was actually a network error, and like everything else in the IBR, zero allowance is given for bad weather, accidents, traffic and any and all other problems.

To my knowledge Josh is not complaining about this issue. It's really a matter for him, and for the IBA to ensure that their equipment works as intended.

How.....exactly.....could Josh or any other rider.....ensure that the IBA's equipment was working as intended?

Have it send a receipt. Email/SMS/IVR/Smoke Signals...

 

[AndyCBR]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, **** does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

A glitchy system should not be allowed anywhere near a competition. What if the Olympic's timers didn't get that last race? "Oops, sorry everyone, please run it again." Or as in this event, "Sorry, our timer didn't work. You couldn't have known that, but since you didn't post a time, you're out of the race."

This was a problem that should not have been a problem, and if this IBR was run professionally, it would not have happened. I stand behind my opinion that taking a 1000 point bonus from a rider and then that rider losing by 600 points is bogus. ONLY because the problem was with the organization's equipment. There should be no question that their stuff works, and now there is.

No matter what anyone tells you, you will believe what you want. I know the rider in question was your horse in the race but that doesn't make what you state true.

I would state openly that you are out of line for claiming the rally is not run professionally. Nothing could be further from the truth.

With regards to the phone bank system I don't know all of the specifics but I do know that all technology is not 100% reliable. Ever had your computer crash? Ever have a cell phone call dropped? Ever gotten a gas pump receipt with the wrong time stamp?

The rules at the scoring table have to apply equally to everyone. The other rider in question who lost their call in bonus to a glitch adapted and made 3 calls the next leg to assure the bonus.

If the scorers start accepting "evidence" of the call as just the call log on the competitors phone then all you would have to do is dial the number.

The fact that one rider was treated exactly the same as another rider (neither were awarded the call as no evidence was in the phone bank) simply shows there was no favoritism and the integrity of the scoring process.

 

[Bungie]

The fact that one rider was treated exactly the same as another rider (neither were awarded the call as no evidence was in the phone bank) simply shows there was no favoritism and the integrity of the scoring process.

No favouritism and denial are hardly acceptable excuses. Competitors spend a lot of money and endure hardship and knowingly put themselves at risk in competing. But not accepting that thier is an issue and taking steps to rectify it, borders on negligence. Why not just have a roving rider with toy gun and that if he shoots you during the rally, your an automatic DNF.

Why not? It's fair and everybody gets treated the same.

Whatever, I have no horse, but I can see it for what it is. AJ is right.

 

[MCRIDER007]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total ********. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, **** does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

If it is the rider's fault for not making multiple calls to ensure they get credit for the call in, I'm failing to see how forcing the riders to make those multiple calls is going to make the call-in system more reliable. If the system can't handle 90 calls in an hour, how would it be able to handle 300-500 calls? Why do they even have a call-in recorder? I would guess so that the staff doesn't have to answer the phone and write down the information....which also can lead to to errors.

There have been multiple posts on this thread that the IBR is strictly for the participants, not the IBR staff, volunteers, or spectators.....if so, why are the riders penalized for errors that they have no control over nor a means to even be aware that an error has occurred?