From Avon's to Pilots

[Scab]

I just (a couple hundred miles back) changed my Avons with a set of Pilot Roads. Originals were stones and, aside from the front cupping, weren't a bad tire. The Avons took a little getting used to as they were very quick responding tires. They were always planted, though. Very stable wet or dry, except when I got to the wear bars on the rear and hydroplaning came fairly easily. Now, the pilots are on. Completely different than the Avons. While the ride is good, the tire is a little "neutral" or "non-committal". It takes more effort cornering. It is not really a negative for the way I ride, but there. (I am not that aggressive) What is a negative is the straight-line handling when in the draft of another vehicle. The front is nowhere near as "planted" as was the Avon or the stone. The bike is MUCH more suseptible to negative air, to the point that it is somewhat un-nerving by comparison to past tires. For those of you with experience with the pilots and others, is this just a characteristic of the pilot tread pattern and shape or perhaps something else? What pressure is the concensus with the front pilot? I am currently running at 42 psi as I did with the avons and stones.

 

[jimbemotumbo]

No experience with Pilot Roads on the FJR as I'm still on my cupped OEM BTs. That's what I planned to switch to though.

I ran through several sets of the roads on my Guzzi V11s. A much lighter bike, granted. I loved the tires. Best I ever had on the V11. I could get alot more lean on them, and the handling was perfectly neutral, turning in as quickly as I wanted, or not. Good long wear too. Can't recall a negative air scenario, though I did note that high speed or downhill decel caused things to get a bit flighty. I always thought that was the incredibly short wheelbase of the goose.

Alot of words - not much help Scab. Just throwing what I know to the wind, hoping some might make sense.

 

[chickey191]

I went from Stones to Pilot Roads. Some say that putting Pilot Power on the front and Roads on the rear is the way to go. Wear out about the same time and give a better feeling to the front end. I have roads on both ends.

Never noticed any susceptability to negative air - not really sure why a tire would contribute to this. But I'll take your word. If mine are susceptable... then the Stones were too as I can't tell any difference.

As for air pressure - I've been running about 44F/46 Rear and that has worked out well.

my test for tire pressue is this.

test them cold

run them to hot. If the pressure goes up more than 10%, then add air. If like 12 or 15% then I would start with 2 PSI. If around 10% I would probably start with 1 lb.

Check pressure again when cold and repeat as often as it takes to keep the pressure from increasing more than 10%. I usually settle for somewhere between 5 and 10 %.

This almost always means that I'm running 2 to 4 psi more than listed on the tire wall. I have found that the tires a perhaps a little hard on rough pavement, but they will cup considerably less - wear considerably better and handle a tad better. They also improve gas mileage a tad.

 

[Bounce]

2 sets of roads (oem was BT). 1 set of avons. Will be going back to roads when this set of avons is worn out.

PR: A little slower to turn in but less "twitchy" in straight line (just the trade off for the tire profile). Good wet and dry handling on both. Price not an issue since I barter for mine. I got around 9000-10,000 miles on a rear PR and will be getting about 7500 miles on the avons.

 

[twowheelnut]

I just spooned on the second set of PR's. For me, this is definitely the best tire I've ever run on this bike and I'm not having the issues you describe. Might I suggest you look into tuning your suspension? I'm finding that subtle tweaks to the front end makes vast differences in handling traits. The first thing I would suggest is to increase your preload 1/2 to 1 bar and go from there. Make sure your sag is set properly first, before making changes.

I'd toss up the link on suspension tuning, but I don't have it bookmarked here at work and my memory holds squat anymore. I put it up tonight - the link, that is.

 

[Bounce]

Shock Adjustment (link) on this page

 

[radman]

I'd toss up the link on suspension tuning, but I don't have it bookmarked here at work and my memory holds squat anymore. I put it up tonight - the link, that is.

Is this the one? Very good guide I've used.

 

[twowheelnut]

Nope, but that is a good one as is bounce's. I'll post it up tonight, then we can all watch Scabadabadoo's head exploded from all the info! :wink:

 

[zzzzip]

Noticed some of the things you mention when I went to Roads. Also noticed they felt like they "slipped" when in a curve and you cross the centerline, or when doing a lane change and you cross the painted line. Nothing drastic-- just enough to get a slight pucker for just a second. Wear was pretty good. Not sure I would go back to them, but I haven't had that many brands under me. B)

 

[Fabone]

Tire profile, tire pressure and suspension set-up, all play a role in the matter.

 

[Scab]

First, mucho-grassy-ass for the replies. At first glance, I must admit I thought chickey was crazy. What? Jack-up the psi? PSI my eye. Second, I know TWN is crazy so I just skipped over his crap without even reading it. Then, I started exploring the finer subtlties of suspension geometry as per the generously offered links. Then I took Excedrin. Then came the epiphany. Well, actually it was gas, but my perspective changed as I peered through the water in my eyes that was welling from the noxious fumes. Why should the suspension have changed just because the tires did? And then I thought about poor chickey and quickly said 3 hail-mary's for the whole "psi my eye" comment. Chickey may be on to something here. What if it is just psi? That is easy enough to test and I don't have to think hard. So I reduced the air pressure to 36 psi in the front before departing on this morning's commute. (I know, chickey said up so this is kinda like the anti-chickey method, but he still thought of psi.) Presto, damn-near draft air immunity! Now, this was only the first 50 mile test but I am liking it. Very stable. Really.

Oh, and yama mama recommends 36 for the front, no? Coincidence, I am sure. What the hell do they know?

 

[twowheelnut]

If you think a simple air pressure change makes a big deal, fidget with those little knobs and screws on the fork adjusters. You'd be much surprised how close you can get to the 'Rossi Effect'. :wink: I have mine set to likey-likey 40/42 F/R. If it goes below 38 F, handling gets a bit oozie, less PSI in the rear tire has less effect.

Oh, I forgot this in my 1st post here: :****: Aaaah, I feel better now.

 

[Scab]

Granted, I am sure my suspension could be fine-tuned to a greater-than-it-is state, but at least the psi got me back into a recognizable neighborhood. I am really going to need a little more free time than currently available before I start fiddlin' in greater depth.

Crap, now it knows I read his f-ing post.

 

[chickey191]

First, mucho-grassy-ass for the replies. At first glance, I must admit I thought chickey was crazy. What? Jack-up the psi? PSI my eye. Second, I know TWN is crazy so I just skipped over his crap without even reading it. Then, I started exploring the finer subtlties of suspension geometry as per the generously offered links. Then I took Excedrin. Then came the epiphany. Well, actually it was gas, but my perspective changed as I peered through the water in my eyes that was welling from the noxious fumes. Why should the suspension have changed just because the tires did? And then I thought about poor chickey and quickly said 3 hail-mary's for the whole "psi my eye" comment. Chickey may be on to something here. What if it is just psi? That is easy enough to test and I don't have to think hard. So I reduced the air pressure to 36 psi in the front before departing on this morning's commute. (I know, chickey said up so this is kinda like the anti-chickey method, but he still thought of psi.) Presto, damn-near draft air immunity! Now, this was only the first 50 mile test but I am liking it. Very stable. Really.
Oh, and yama mama recommends 36 for the front, no? Coincidence, I am sure. What the hell do they know?

uh.... thanks,

I think.

 

[Scab]

Yep, that's what I meant.

 

[markjenn]

I've run BS 020s, Avon ST's, and Pilot Roads on my FJR.

They're all fine tires, but I'd give the edge to the PR's. I'd call it a tie between the Avon and PR's, but I wore out a front Avon in 1700 miles (albeit very hot and very hard riding) and while it was never a issue at speed, I found the low-speed (<10 mph) waggle from the Avon annoying. The PR's seem to wear better on the front, don't have the low-speed waggle, and are just all-around solid.

I've had none of the issues you mention with the PR. I'd be sure to ride a bit before drawing firm conclusions - when you replace worn-out tires, the handling changes abruptly and the compensations you made with the old tires may affect how the new one feels.

There's also a tremendous about of sample-to-sample variation in tires so perhaps you have a below-par set. I've had good and bad sets from every mfg, although Michelin seems to consistently have the highest quality control to me.

YMMV.

- Mark

 

[DocDanDC]

I like the PR's better then the BT020 stock tires. They are smoother, quiet and good in the pavement ruts. They track straight without any wobble at all speeds. Good tire in the rain also.

 

[DrEvil777]

BT oem, avons next and now PR's. The PR's have been the best but I do strongly agree with the tire pressure setting. Anything below 38 up front makes the front end feel as though the axel is loose. Not funny in a long sweeper.

Got 4000 on the new PR's and they look new. I need to spoon a new set for a track day coming up as I want to whip the FJR and give the R-1 a break. I will likely get another set of PR's and shred them on the Streets of Willow.

+1 on the suspension set up, most important to make the FJR handle like it's supposed to.

 

[Blueliner]

+1 on the suspension set up, most important to make the FJR handle like it's supposed to.

+2. It is amazing what "one click" can do, or more if yours is way off for your style and parameters. Many people have a tendency to set compression damping too hard to try to keep the nose from dipping under braking.