Fuel injector question

[Klubis]

I'm asking the same questions as James K. I'm off to Google now.

 

[Klubis]

It is more likely that ethanol loosened up splooge, and it won't dissolve it, that is, if any splooge was loosened at all. The naptha in Seafoam gently dissolves gums and splooge over time, but it's sounding like time to pull the injectors and have them cleaned. It's not that difficult if you're so inclined.
Another thought, check the plug wires at the coils to ensure they are connected tight, and at the plugs themselves.

To pull the injectors, it seems like all I have to do is remove the screws that attach the injector rail and unplug the electrical connectors, right? The injectors themselves kind of "smoosh" fit into the intake tubes as I recall? Then I just throw them in the Maytag on "regular"? Not. Where does one get ones injectors cleanified?

 

[Denver_FJR]

I recently had mine done by Fuel Injector Man out of Florida, but the Interweebs are chock full of folks providing ultrasonic cleaning and flow testing. While initially it appeared to help things and the results looked promising as a couple injectors were fairly clogged, the problem is essentially still there (although not to the extent your having).

 

[Denver_FJR]

No matter what you put in the tank (to absorb water), I would siphon out the original fuel and start with fresh (and run that 'puppy' on the hwy). If it won't run highway speeds then perhaps your troubleshooting will need to go deeper. Gut feeling is fuel (though we still are only guessing without seeing the bike and knowing the storing conditions, etc.).

Hear, hear! No matter what elixir you add to the fuel, once it has phase separated it's now low octane crap fuel and cannot be made "right" with an additive. Drain it and start fresh.

 

[mcatrophy]

...

To pull the injectors, it seems like all I have to do is remove the screws that attach the injector rail and unplug the electrical connectors, right? The injectors themselves kind of "smoosh" fit into the intake tubes as I recall? Then I just throw them in the Maytag on "regular"? Not. Where does one get ones injectors cleanified?

It's not hard. I took my fuel rail off to install my cruise control, took out an injector "just because".

Pictures of what I did around here.

Fuel rail removed:

(Click on image for larger view)



An injector, now easily removed:

 

[mavrik]

are you sure it is not running on all cylinders? did you test each header tube to see if they are hot or somewhat equal in temp?

 

[ionbeam]

Fuel injector rebuilding and cleaning involves some common elements of fuel injectors. The following injector is a Nippon Denso from a Yamaha boat engine. On the top left side, the item with the gold collar is a fuel filter, almost all injectors gots 'em. The filter can plug from debris but the tip orifices and pintles should be protected from the dirt. The tip orifices and pintles can clog from carbon or fuel varnish. Injector service should include the fuel filter, cleaning the tip and O-ring replacements.

Running fuel system cleaner through the gas tank is unable to take care of debris that collects in the injector filter but it can help with carbon and varnish on the tip.

 

[JamesK]

Thanks Ionbeam, I have to/will do this, I'm sure there is sufficient crud in the filter given my mileage.

 

[bluesdog]

The actual removal and reinstall of the injectors is simple and straightforward.

Be careful, especially during reassembly, with the injector 'doughnut' seals at the injector tips. They are made of a fairly soft rubber material, and if damaged will result in poor performance due to leaks.

I had mine cleaned, flowed and new screens fitted for @ $60 CAD. I removed and reinstalled, and replaced the o-rings, although the originals looked just fine.

iirc, injector #3 was partially clogged, and the symptoms were similar to what you've described: Stumbling coming off idle and pronounced lack of power. Initial attempts using injector cleaner only seemed to make things worse. After the injector service, the bike runs like it should -- no stumble off idle, and pulls smooth and strong like a freight train to redline.

I now do a ring free treatment every oil change, and for winter storage fill the tank with non-ethanol premium with stabilizer

 

[Klubis]

Silver Spirit, thanks for the advice and guidance. Was that price for all 4 injectors (I hope)? I have been fumbling for the right words for my problem, but you hit the nail on the head, "Stumbling coming off idle and pronounced lack of power". That is what I'm experiencing. What I expected, and what I know I'll get when this problem is fixed, is "pulls strong and smooth like a freight train". Thanks again.

 

[Klubis]

I'm bummed out. I was so busy this weekend with other stuff I did not get any time to try things on the FJR. I will have to wait until next weekend. sigh….

 

[NMRoadRunner]

Think you used too much Seafoam, regular dose is 1 tablespoon per gallon, it's not a fuel, it's a alcohol based lubricant with some added solvents. Drain the fuel and start over. No seaform this time.

 

[Klubis]

I think you're right.

 

[Aasland]

Think you used too much Seafoam, regular dose is 1 tablespoon per gallon, it's not a fuel, it's a alcohol based lubricant with some added solvents. Drain the fuel and start over. No seaform this time.

Yep. Do this first, Easy and cheap. If anything, you'll have eliminated fuel as the problem. Just running a 100 miles and filling with fresh fuel is only diluting the crummy fuel by 50%; do it again, and you've still got 25% crap.

Go here to find fuel w/o ethanol: https://pure-gas.org/

My wife has an SV650 with carbs that sits for long (2-4 weeks) periods (pregnancy and kids took precedence). Where the FJR doesn't seem to care, the SV650's narrow carb passages is more sensitive to ethanol goop. The warmer and more humid it is, the worse it is; last year I had to rebuild the carbs to get it to run right. Now I am religious about running pure gas in it, or using StarTron if she comes home with food (aka corn) in the tank.

My advice .. once you get this sorted .. is to do the same (i.e. no ethanol or StarTron) if you won't be riding it regularly.

 

[Denver_FJR]

I'm skeptical running "pure" gas will solve anything, unless you can be sure you will never run an ethanol blend in the future. Any "ethanol goop" is likely varnish, originally built up from running pure gas, but now dissolved in the fuel by the ethanol and being fed through the fuel injection/engine.

 

[Aasland]

I'm skeptical running "pure" gas will solve anything, unless you can be sure you will never run an ethanol blend in the future. Any "ethanol goop" is likely varnish, originally built up from running pure gas, but now dissolved in the fuel by the ethanol and being fed through the fuel injection/engine.

Correct - it won't solve the current problem, but it could prevent similar problems in the future.

My point regarding non-oxygenated fuel was to not let E10 sit in the tank for months at a time in a hot and humid environment. Most of us go through gas fast enough that this isn't a problem; the OP doesn't put very many miles his FJR and lives in a place with plenty of heat and humidity, so it seems to make sense that he would take the same precautions as us northerners take when we winterize our bikes for half the year.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I've read a lot on the subject, I'm not a chemist.... one of the theories is, gasoline itself (E10 or not) will leave a microscopic coating of varnish as it evaporates and ethanol doesn't 'dissolve' it very well, it loosens it up. These little flakes or gobs or whatever it is can get stuck in fuel system parts until they are dissolved. Ethanol also reaches a saturation point of water around 4.5%, then you get phase separation..... Naptha (and probably kerosene) will dissolve the varnishes better, and isopropanol will take care of water way better than ethanol....... that's why Seafoam works as it has both. So, if not ridden for a while, best put some in. I think a Seafoam treatment once in a while isn't a bad thing. StarTron won't hurt either, same kind of deal but has harsher solvents to clean injectors. Just use as directed, more is not necessarily better IMHO.

I have stored my Feej for months with E10 and Seafoam with seemingly good results, it fires right up.... but I will ride it to near empty on the first ride after storage and get fresh fuel in there. I have also my old Honda Magna V65 (carbs) with two year old E10 gas and Seafoam (which I meant to drain but didn't, oops) and it amazed me that it started up and seemingly ran well. Not perfect maybe, but OK to go.

Anyway, the OP is in need of an injector cleaning it seems now, unless fresh fuel fixes it up. Non-E10 is preferable, but there ain't much of it around here.........

 

[RichDoyle]

Just a side comment that is NOT intended as a recommendation for this problem. I've had occasion to clean the injectors on my airplane. The injector systems on the typical fuel-injected lightplane are laughably primitive compared to those on modern automotive engines, and the injector apertures are far larger (at full power, my 180 HP engine consumes 17.5 gallons per hour). But the injector manufacturer recommends simply applying a several hour soak of the injectors in Hoppe's #9 solvent. Given the crudeness of these systems, it seems to be sufficient.

 

[Klubis]

Guys, this is awesome. All it was, was the spark plugs. I changed them this AM and it transformed her! I mean, everything was the way it's 'posed to be. Easy launch, no stumbles, not quite a freight train but very nice. If i'd only done first what I had said I was going to do on my Feb 16 post, I think I would have been successful right off the bat, but there is no doubt that changing the fuel needed to be done too. The old plugs looked like they've been run in a 2 stroke after only 2,000 miles. I think it was a combination of old gas and too much Seafoam that fouled the plugs. Anyway, she's fixed. With all 4 cylinders firing, the PC 5 seems to be doing what ya'll said it would.

I am so happy to get it running right. Thanks for all your help!

 

[RossKean]

Plugs don't often foul like that, especially on a modern fuel-injected bike. (even with crappy fuel) I would check them in a couple of hundred miles and make sure there isn't an underlying problem.