Fully Synthetic Oil Filter...

[Scoobyvroom]

So after reading this: Ducati Oil Thread

To paraphrase:

Oil; Synthetics have less containments which = better cooling and longer life.

Filter; Synthetic oil filters filter down to 10-15 micron where paper filter only go down to 30, most are rated to 30 micron at two passes. Also synthetic filters flow much better than paper.

I wanted to see if Amsoil made a fully synthetic filter for the FJR. I checked Amsoils website. They do not list a filter that fits the FJR. Today I called Moon Motorsports my closest Yamaha dealer to find out how much an oil filter was. I think it was 10$. So after getting off the phone with them I did a search for "synthetic oil filters" and found Mobil's website. While looking there I found this: Show Me the Parts

Which after putting in Yamaha's OEM part number for the filter: 5JW-13440-00

It gave me the the Mobil filter that would fit. If you click on the part number it lists all the other vehicles that take the same filter. So I went back to Amsoils website and did a filter search for a 2007 Acura MDX 3.7L V6 and guess what they make a filter that fits it.

So I purchased three filters, two EAO12 and one EAO13. Why three? Well my Subaru Outback and my Wifes Subaru Impreza take the same filter, which was the EAO12. The EAO13 is a taller filter more like the OEM filter about 3.375 in overall length. I plan to take lots of pictures and document the OEM filter size VS this EAO filter.

I guess the only thing that concerns me is if there is any difference between oil pressure in a car vs a motorcycle? Higher flow anything that would warrant not switching to a fully synthetic filter? The only thing that sucks is the price at 16$. However after 100,000 miles that only another 200 bucks in maintenance costs.

Not gonna have time tonight to do the oil change but will post pictures and stuff in a couple days. Just wanted to see what people thought.

Scoobs

 

[worldbound4now]

I think monkey juice tastes better when you're wearing comfortable pants....

and I think you're on to something..... maybe. Can you really get better flow rates through a filter with smaller holes? I guess you could, but you'd need to have quite a bit more filter surface area within the same sized canister.

worldbound4now.

 

[FJR-RemingtonRider]

Whoa!

Don't spend much time on other forums, you mean they have oil threads also..???

 

[FJRay]

I sure hope this goes for awhile. If syn oil has less contamination does that mean my delo 400 is precontaminated from the refinery??? If the syn filter filters twice as good it seems it should be twice the size to do the same job as the filter that is recomended for the engine. Are syn microns a different size than regular microns??? I will have more questions later but I need to finish a valve check on a Goldwing. OH, Is it ok to use a standard feeler guage if I am putting syn oil in the engine????

 

[FJRBluesman]

While it is an interesting post....

Do you plan on using the vehicles for say the next 500K miles? Do you really think it'll reduce wear that much that it's the shizzle? Will you still change the oil and filter just as often? Will the engine performance improve? Will the FeeJ no longer vibrate at 4K RPM?

I think regular maintenance intervals will also do the job and save some coin. Maybe change your oil more often to keep out those nasty contaminants.

Just sayin' I don't think I'd run out and sell the farm for all those new synthetic thangs.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

I have been using AmsOil filters for over 20 years and now the EAO series type that replaced the compressed cellulose versions.

Just have not put them on the FJR yet since I did not want any questions/challenges/excuses during my Warranty period.

Actually, the OEM Yamaha filters shown below, are not paper and of a Synthetic construction for your review:

Cut Open

 

[dwpools]

Be careful:

I purchased an 013 filter from Amsoil. The filter was not concaved enough to seat on the gasket, it bottomed out on the threaded portion of the case. I have been using the Mobil 1 filter and compared and there was a noticable differance in how deep the dish portion of the filter was. I may not be using the correct vocabulary on this post, but I think you should get the meaning.

Let us know if you find the same issue

 

[Scoobyvroom]

I sure hope this goes for awhile. If syn oil has less contamination does that mean my delo 400 is precontaminated from the refinery??? If the syn filter filters twice as good it seems it should be twice the size to do the same job as the filter that is recomended for the engine. Are syn microns a different size than regular microns??? I will have more questions later but I need to finish a valve check on a Goldwing. OH, Is it ok to use a standard feeler guage if I am putting syn oil in the engine????

Paper elements get clogged right from the very first use. If you read that article George explains why synthetic filters are so much better.

While it is an interesting post....
Do you plan on using the vehicles for say the next 500K miles? Do you really think it'll reduce wear that much that it's the shizzle? Will you still change the oil and filter just as often? Will the engine performance improve? Will the FeeJ no longer vibrate at 4K RPM?

I think regular maintenance intervals will also do the job and save some coin. Maybe change your oil more often to keep out those nasty contaminants.

Just sayin' I don't think I'd run out and sell the farm for all those new synthetic thangs.

A car is one thing where you don't have clutch material going through the oil, a motorcycle I think could use all the help it can get.

George also states that in his years of being a lubrication engineer that the number one reason for failure is contaminated oil.

I have been using AmsOil filters for over 20 years and now the EAO series type that replaced the compressed cellulose versions.
Just have not put them on the FJR yet since I did not want any questions/challenges/excuses during my Warranty period.

Actually, the OEM Yamaha filters shown below, are not paper and of a Synthetic construction for your review:

Cut Open

I am wondering is those are a blend. While doing some looking there are lots of blended filters, but it seems that the Amsoil EAO filters are right now the only fully synthetic filters.

 

[Scoobyvroom]

Here is a snippit of the thread.

Georgecls:A bit of a quanry. I just completed comparative, real world testing of Amsoil's new EaO oil filter and it provdes a level of performance/filtration far, far beyond any engine oil filter I have performed analysis & particle counts. The problem is, as before, Ansoil does NOT make an EaO filter for our Ducati engines. They WILL but it will require a good number of inquiries from their web site or phone calls to initiate the run. They say they need 500 to initiate a run... They have had 2 inquiries since August.. One was mine...

Amsoil lists an oil filter for the Ducati but it is *not* the new EaO filter medium, is a simple paper/cellulose element, thus does not provide any better performance than the Ducati or K&N oil filter.

So, if we can collectively get Amsoil off dead center by e-mailing/calling there really is a much better mousetrap in the Amsoil EaO oil filter. It would provide a level of oil cleanliness that would be actually cleaner than new oil right out of the bottle... Yes, that clean........

George Morrison, STLE CLS

(NOTE: I am not now, nor ever have been, an Amsoil Dealer: however, that may change with the advent of this new EaO oil filter!)

anzalone22:

Make that 4.

The amsoil makes this statement on their web page:

https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/eao.aspx

"AMSOIL EaO Filters are guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, when used in conjunction with AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil in gasoline and diesel vehicles in normal service, 15,000 miles in severe service."

George is this possible? Would you recommend running a car 25,000 miles before a filter change? I know the Amsoil page recommends changing the filter and oil at the suggested auto manufacturers intervals.

One last question. Would it make a difference if I used Mobil 1 and an EaO instead of the Amsoil synthetic in my car?

Georgecls:

Any group IV or V synthetic would be fine with the Amsoil EaO filter, but yes, I have a bit of a problem with 25,000 miles... I run 10,000 mile ODI's on my personal vehicles using Mobil 1, regular oill analysis and Mobil 1 filters. The only aspect I am looking at with the EaO filter is a much, much cleaner oil for the 10,000 miles.... i.e. improved lubricant performance, component longevity...

I should have the complete results for my oil analysis later today or tomorrow at the latest. Emperically the EaO filter has no current equal for oil filtration....... Not even close....

George Morrison, STLE CLS

(And, again, I have no affiliation with Amsoil: just seeking the Holy Grail of oil filter for our Ducati engines) (we found it!)

Georgecls:My utmost thanks for securing and sectioning this filter. Superb work...

Unfortunately, you have exposed a "blend" filter medium.. A true synthetic medium has no "body" and requires stainless steel mesh backing to provide its form. Your disection exposed that this filter medium will "stand by itself", which no true synthetic/microglass medium will do. This medium is similar to the blends used by Mobil 1 and others, which provides some level of increased performance compared with cellulose but not close to the capabilities of a pure synthetic/microglass element. It is as a chain with the weakest link being the bottom line strength of the chain. With synthetic cellulose blends we are stuck with all the drawbacks of paper: inconsistent structure (as much as 40% of a cellulose filter does not flow anything: blocked totally due to the limitations of paper manufacture), inate limitations of filtration size of 30 microns absolute; the microglass blend improves it somewhat, but nowhere close to a full microglass medium.

We need to embark on the Amsoil web site campaign to get Amsoil producing our Ducati filter......

Again, thank you for your excellent work in exposing this less than EaO level performance filter.

George Morrison, STLE CLS

Georgecls:

Another aspect of the "synthetic blend" which, amazingly, I do not think we have discussed is that there are no "regulations" governing just what constitutes a "synthetic blend". Thus, we go from a "weak link" to a very weak chain that has maybe one strong link in it. A synthetic blend can be formulated with 99.999% mineral base oil and .0001% synthetic base stock and legally can be labeled a "synthetic blend".. Soooo, oil company marketing and accountants for GreedOil Inc. can smile all the way to the bank as they charge near synthetic prices for what is for all intent and purpose, a mineral base oil. Synthetic blend is simply marketing (genius) that generates huge profits for those companies who produce them. I just happened to be in a blend plant one evening that was in the process of making a batch of "synthetic blend'; the technician stood there shaking his head and grimacing as he passed the synthetic wand over the tank of mineral base oil and walahh, synthetic blend.....

George Morrison, STLE CLS

Georgecls:Sieg,

I am totally in agreement with you regarding holding a negative impression of Amsoil. In fact, I initially set about the prove Amsoil wrong in its advertising of the EaO oil filter element performance! Finally I had an Amsoil product which I could easily, empirically disprove its performance in black and white with relatively simple & low cost testing. Lubricant performance comes down to total field performance and there is not one SAE test or bench test of any kind that is going to relate to real world performance in an engine/transmission.. It makes for great AD copy and "White papers", however... Good marketing... Amsoil does make excellent lubricants; it is just the marketing aspect Amsoil has used, from a conservative lube engineer point of view, a little over the top..

So, when the results of my oil analysis/laser particle counts with confirming pore blockage came back for the Amsoil EaO oil filter, I was very much taken back... My whole premise was to finally, easily, disproove an Amsoil marketing claim and I failed miserably....

Thus, yes, it is quite an accomplishment for Amsoil to have my oil filter data presented.. But the data is certainly unbiased. And the filter material, construction could/should provide this level of performance but if any one component of the filter was not of an excellent design, the bottom line filtration performance simply would not be there. It isn't just the use of the microglass medium alone. I have seen many microglass elemented oil filters fail miserably in real world applications do to a corner cut in a seal material, seal design, medium preparation, etc.. Filtering to this level *is* extremely difficult to achieve... Amsoil did it with the EaO filter....

For me the current oil filter crop we had to use on our engines was like having a Rolex watch with a Timex watch band... We now have the complete package...

George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[Big-D]

Here is some helpful information and interesting reading too! Afterward, drive to Wal-mart and buy a Supertech 7317 for about $2.50 ea. You can't go wrong and don't be surprised if they are almost sold out of that particular filter because they sell so many. I bought 10 at one time just to always have some on hand.

Click the links below!

Oil Filter Comparison

All About Oil Filters

 

[FJRBluesman]

Yep, I've read those Big-D good find again.

 

[Scoobyvroom]

Here is some helpful information and interesting reading too! Afterward, drive to Wal-mart and buy a Supertech 7317 for about $2.50 ea. You can't go wrong and don't be surprised if they are almost sold out of that particular filter because they sell so many. I bought 10 at one time just to always have some on hand.
Click the links below!

Oil Filter Comparison

All About Oil Filters

This is the diffrence, none of those are a true synthetic filter. Tommorow since I am home and the wife has to work for once I'll be doing this and some suspension mods.

Pics and numbers to show up soon.

 

[snikr]

I've been using the K&N oil filters with AmsOil 10w-40 and have had good luck with them. Then again, I have not cut them a part to see what was going on. Just my $.02

Tom

 

[08FJR4ME]

Shoot dang,

I never thought of cutting one open. I will cut off the bottom of one and check it out with the next oil change.

Supertech 7317 changed every 1,500 to 2,000 miles.

 

[krotchrocketgrampa]

I have been using AmsOil filters for over 20 years and now the EAO series type that replaced the compressed cellulose versions.
Just have not put them on the FJR yet since I did not want any questions/challenges/excuses during my Warranty period.

Actually, the OEM Yamaha filters shown below, are not paper and of a Synthetic construction for your review:

Cut Open

thanks for the pics,nice to see whats really in the filter :clapping:

 

[03HiYoSilver]

thanks for the pics,nice to see whats really in the filter :clapping:

You are welcome... just thought ones questioning the OEM filters should have something to look at. They are built very well and seem to have great filtering media which the best ones seem to possess.

 

[Scoobyvroom]

Ah forget it, the amsoil filters won't fit your bikes any how. It will however fit mine. It's good to be a machinist.. :yahoo:

 

[Zorlac]

I let an old disk drive magnet stick to the outside of my non-synthetic ST7317 to help trap any nefarious ferrous bits.

It also helps to rearrange the interdimentional molecular viscous tenacity of the oil thereby negating the the need for particulate filtration by synthetic media.

 

[Scoobyvroom]

I let an old disk drive magnet stick to the outside of my non-synthetic ST7317 to help trap any nefarious ferrous bits.It also helps to rearrange the interdimentional molecular viscous tenacity of the oil thereby negating the the need for particulate filtration by synthetic media.

Thanks for more worthless posting. I try to start a thread with some useful information and this is how I get thanked with BS posts. Awesome...

Admin want to lock this or delete this thread, obviously no one cares...