Fuse block confusion ?

[Fencer]

I have read through many of the posted threads on the fuse block and am a little confused. One on the tech site said they ran the neg gnd back to the battery to eliminate whine in the audio system due to the previous tech suggesting a frame floating ground. I may have misread another from Bounce that said, (short version) - if you neg back to the battery you will cause a short.(unless a 2nd ground only block is used.

So do you

1 ground block to frame with each item grned in block

2 ground block to neg bat for no whine with each item grned in block

3 do not gnd block to frame, instead free gnd each item to frame

I am (wishing) to use a blue sea 12 gange with a built in neg block.

Placement is also a pain. most are saying put under the front seat but I already have the air compressor there and it will fit no othr place. Back seat room is questionable as this thing is 6.5x3.3x1.5. No glove box here. If I understand my electronics correctly. I want to use as short of a wire as possible. If I run it all the way to the rear every Item I hook up will have a longer lead as well. Will heated gear/gps/grips etc cuase a prob if I use a 12 ga wire from the batt to the block or do I need to go bigger?

 

[JimLor]

Fencer,

I have a BlueSea also and ran the ground directly from the battery to the BlueSea. Positive from Battery - fuze - relay - BlueSea. I've got an intercom and don't have any whining or anything else with IC/IPod/Radio/cell phone. PM me if you want to talk thru the install.

Jim

 

[FJRocket]

Fencer, I have a BlueSea also and ran the ground directly from the battery to the BlueSea. Positive from Battery - fuze - relay - BlueSea. I've got an intercom and don't have any whining or anything else with IC/IPod/Radio/cell phone. PM me if you want to talk thru the install.

Jim

For the ground, my Blue Sea (only a 6 gang) went direct to the battery. I have positive power from the battery switched on by a relay.

10 gauge wire for heated grips is probably OK. 12 is probably adequate. Hope so, that's what I used.

 

[TheAxeman]

 

[Constant Mesh]

Really shouldn't make any electrical connections to the frame. The engine crankcase has a direct electrical connection with the negative post of the battery. Thus the engine is a valid part of the electrical system. But the frame offers an electrical connection only because the engine is bolted to it at various points. 'No' electrical connections should be made with the frame.

The factory wiring harness includes a grounding (negative DC) bus which is looped throughout the bike's components. No connections are made to the frame. But three components are electrically connected to the engine -- starter motor, neutral switch, and oil level switch.

 

[Fencer]

Thank you all for the replies. Battery it is!

Ionbeam Also sent me more or less the same answer in a PM with more info on Daisy chaining. I am posting for others to see for future ref.

Again thanks to everyone.

-----------------------------------

Hi Fence!
Option #2!

2 ground block to neg bat for no whine with each item grned in block

On the positive side + Battery to fuse to relay to Blue Sea.

On the negative side – Battery to Blue Sea, no stops, no splices or detours, make the run as short as possible and avoid routing it past high energy items such as the ignition coils or fuel injectors.

You won’t need a wire gauge bigger than 12ga. Use automotive wire, use the best crimpers you can find. If you are proficient at soldering, solder where you can, if not proficient then crimp.

Once the BS(!) is hooked up do not ‘daisy chain’ items together – daisy chain is where one wire goes to radar detector then the same wire continues on to the entertainment and then continues on to communications. Use one ground wire per item, radar detector has its own ground wire, goes no place else. Entertainment has one ground wire, goes no place else…

Avoid chassis grounding any time you can for active electrical devices. You can ground relays to the frame if you must, also you can ground heated grips. After market horns should go to the battery due to high current consumption.

Good luck and enjoy.

The 12 gange with ground block fits behind the seat ok

 

[Bounce]

I may have misread another from Bounce that said, (short version) - if you neg back to the battery you will cause a short.(unless a 2nd ground only block is used.

perhaps it was me saying something about not using the SAME block that is used for power to run back to the neg on the battery. that would cause a short. you have to keep the 2 independant of each other which is why i used a second block as a grounding block, which was then run back to neg on the battery because of the fjr's floating ground.

 

[madmike2]

+1 on a separate grounding block. I have a separate fuse panel to power my add-ons (small and located in my glove box), so I use a separate grounding block.

You could use a separate grounding block, with a #10 wire to the battery, for all your electrical farkles at the front of the bike, so that you don't HAVE to run your ground wires back to the Blue Sea. It might make it easier to select a location for the fuse unit......like under the tail piece so you can leave your compressor in the tool tray.

 

[git-r-dan]

I located mine under the rear seat. It is secured to that bar with double sided sticky tape (red stuff at Wal-Mart). That rubber strap is now used to (kind-of) protect anything from bumping the leads. My compressor is located to the far left, tucked in that tail light section sitting on top of the scorpio alarm. The seat goes down with no problem and there is no room for any movement once locked down. Also using 12 ga straight to battery +- with no noise on autocom. I used some insulation blanket type material to wrap around the wires after it leaves the jiffy pop and continues over the frame to the battery. Figured it could get a little hot there having those thin leads to the radar detector and autocom along with the battery leads.

Hadn't looked at this pic in a while but now has me wishing for another farkle to add another fuse to. GPS!!!

 

[BentAero]

On my ST, I have a Blue Sea box and it worked OK, but took up all the room under the seat. For the FJR, I'm going to *TRY* to locate these power strips somewhere up front.

My buddy and I are rewiring a house, and part of the job included taking out the 150 amp service and replacing it w/ 200 amp service. These blocks are from the old 150 amp breaker box. (think they have enough capacity? ) I'll use the isolated one for the hot side, and the one w/ the aluminum bracket for the ground. At least that's the plan...

 

[James Burleigh]

Please see questions posted this thread: Power Plate Questions

 

[Longrifle]

I wish I had read this BEFORE I LET THE MAGIC SMOKE ESCAPE! :angry2:

The Canyonchasers diagram was a little misleading? I used only one PDB and caused a short and melted the insulation off of the wires....man, that smoke is hard to breath. :dribble:

Tomorrow, I'm off to Rat Shack to buy another PDB for the ground side....F*%# !!!

Santa bought me a Widders Lectric Vest, chaps and gloves, but I turned a simple mistake into a major project.

 

[Longrifle]

After action report....

4 trips to Rat Shack later and half a day cussing trying to jam my fat hands into the fairing, and all is well.

Thanks to everyone else here on the forum for doing the homework. I used the left over left side horn wire (FJRandy's horn wire harness) for a switched power source for the PDB relay. Now I have a pair of PDB's resting on top of the computer under the saddle, easy to add more farkles. I tried mounting PDB's inside the front panels, but there just isn't much room to play with. The Widder heats up nicely and no funny cooking baloney smell. :yahoo:

 

[sprint_st]

I have seen several of these bus setups now using relays. It seems that the only purpose of the relay is make the bus live only when the key is on, correct????

 

[James]

I have seen several of these bus setups now using relays. It seems that the only purpose of the relay is make the bus live only when the key is on, correct????

Correct.

 

[slapnpop]

One extra bit of info.

When wiring anything dealing with audio (mp3 player, GPS, and autocomm together, for example), it's best to run ALL of the power leads from the same +12v and to the same ground. You would not want to use ... say... 1 bus bar in the front with the mp3 and GPS, then the autocomm on a 2nd bus bar under the seat.

Any time you introduce multiple power routes into connected audio equipment, you can set up a noise-causing ground loop. Basically, any audio equipment that gets connected at the audio level, should all have the same power and ground locations.

 

[weekend rider]

When you are chosing wire color black is code for ground in dc elect. systems.

You never parallel your grounding One continue path to ground

You may want to use shielded electrical wire to help prevent inference from other electrical components

The frame is the ground point not the engine. Trace your gound wire from your lal grounding should be through your battery ground post hooked to a terminal block .

You should never tap into any hot wires supplying power to an electreical component.

Every new piece of electrical gaget should have its own wiring and be fused correctly for safety reason and to help prevent electrical problem , like fuses blowing when you are out riding and it is the middle of the night and no help in sight.

there is no such thing as a floating ground......

Follow these simple steps and you will have a safe and problem free electrical problem

weekend rider

.

 

[sprint_st]

It seems to me that there are a lot of people saying similar things in different and sometimes confusing ways. Even electricians and electronics people can't agree on which way current flows. Also nothing is absolute either. Floating grounds, ground loops, frame grounds and the negative terminal of the battery all have to do with voltage potentials and ways some folks describe those potentials. The negative terminal of the battery should be considered the absolute ground of the bike. For the purposes of this email, think of it as zero volts. Nothing should be more negative than that terminal. That's where ground loops, floating grounds, etc come in. If you hook to the frame at point A, point A could be a positive 0.0001 volts. A second place on the frame, point B, can be 0.0002 volts. What that means is that some current can flow between A and B rather than all to the negative terminal. In essence the frame is not zero volts or absolute ground everywhere on the frame causing multiple paths for electrons to travel. So don't confuse the frickin' electrons by using the frame as a ground because it isn't a true ground. Also, if you are using radios, cell phones and other items like that, the use of shielding can also be a source of ground loops and act as an antennae for unwanted interference rather than the shield for which it was intended. In many cases it boils down to cut and try. Use shielding and if it works fine. If you start getting problems, you may want to pull it and see what happens. IMO the Blue Sea bus is the best option I have seen. It has both hot and ground strips with individually fused connection points in a nice compact package. I'm wiring mine directly to the battery and will take my chances with draining the battery because I forgot to disconnect or turn something off.

 

[MKO]

Great schematic! Thanks for posting it.