Garmin BaseCamp

[RossKean]

I had tacked this on to a thread about mapping programs started by wfooshee https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=118469 Thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread that specifically discusses this product.

Since many users of this forum use Garmin GPS and MapSource (MapSucks), I thought the comparison between the new(er) BaseCamp and MapSource might be of benefit to a number of individuals. It appears that Garmin is no longer doing any development on MapSource and is focusing their attention on BaseCamp. From what little I have read, this was developed to be used on both PC and Mac where Mapsource is a PC product only. Also, from my understanding, BaseCamp is a product that may be used for GPS applications other than road-specific.

Anyway, I would be interested to see what real-world experience people have had with this product and comparison with MapSource.

Looking forward to the discussion.

Ross

 

[Fred W]

I have it. Came with a lifetime maps upgrade to my Zumo 660, I think.

I've looked at it. It seems to be pretty much the same thing as Mapsource in a slightly different wrapper.

Being an old dog, I still use my old tricks, on Mapsource. I really don't see how Mapsource is/was so bad. You just need to learn all those tricks.

 

[RossKean]

I have it. Came with a lifetime maps upgrade to my Zumo 660, I think.

I've looked at it. It seems to be pretty much the same thing as Mapsource in a slightly different wrapper.

Being an old dog, I still use my old tricks, on Mapsource. I really don't see how Mapsource is/was so bad. You just need to learn all those tricks.

MapSource isn't too awful. Just a little "clunky" without the polish we all seem to take for granted on modern software - seems to have the appearance of software from the '90's. Not a problem for me (I have used much worse) but I am thinking that since Garmin is not going to continue supporting Mapsource, I should find out what I can about their "new" product.

Ross

 

[UberKul]

I am using both products for on and off road route mapping on Macs and PC's. I think the biggest difference is the way files are saved in MapSource (MS) and imported in BaseCamp (BC) where they are saved on close. Once you get used to having all your information open all the time in BC it gets easier to wrap your head around. BC feels more Mac and seems to be more track oriented as apposed to MS and routing. That works pretty well if building information downloaded from the GPS. I think there is more functionality built into BC that can be used I just haven't figured it out yet to include the most efficient way of using the filing structure. Neither product is what I would call user friendly. I have found I jump into Google Earth a lot more using BC to look at real world details and route checks. I tend to use Zumoforums.com as the go-to source for GPS info.

This will be a good thread to subscribe to. :good:

 

[wfooshee]

I looked at BaseCamp briefly, but not enough to "review" it in my mapping programs thread. Some initial observations would include:

Better selection of avoidance categories, like ferries, u-turns, Interstates, etc.

Ability to specify average speeds for road types, making time estimates potentially better.

There's no Save/Load process, it just picks up where you had it last. You can export or import .gpx files freely to keep your workspace as clear or cluttered as you like.

It uses the map files installed from your GPS device's installation, just like MapSource, and I'm given to understand it can get the maps off of your GPS to work with the more basic models that don't install from CD or download.

Still too much tool-switching, for routing, waypoint creation, panning, etc.

I'll play with it some more, see what wonderful discoveries I can make....

 

[LAF]

As long as I have owned GPS. using the trip/route has ALWAYS been the most frustrating! Seems to me it should be the most intuitive!

I too usually use MapQuest or another Web based map tool.

I mean I can go point A-B on pretty much the roads I want, and can find my way if I get off track.

It is a tool I love but feel I under use. However it is nice in BFE to press Home, or Recent Finds which I use for "Home" on the road, and get there!

Look forward to the information that people who seriously use GPS, contribute to this knowledge base, this could help us all.

 

[Fred W]

My comments embedded in your quote below.

I looked at BaseCamp briefly, but not enough to "review" it in my mapping programs thread. Some initial observations would include:

Better selection of avoidance categories, like ferries, u-turns, Interstates, etc.

That is also in Mapsource. From the menu bar: Edit / Preferences / Routing tab.

Ability to specify average speeds for road types, making time estimates potentially better.

Also in Mapsource: Edit / Preferences / Routing tab, Driving Speeds button

There's no Save/Load process, it just picks up where you had it last. You can export or import .gpx files freely to keep your workspace as clear or cluttered as you like.

To open a route file for the first time you still have to "import" the route. I guess it does automatically save it in the background. Not sure if this is a benefit or not. I like the ability to abort whatever I'm doing without overwriting the saved version of the route. Mapsource works just like nearly any windows program in that you have to save your work, and until you do all edits are only temporary.

It uses the map files installed from your GPS device's installation, just like MapSource, and I'm given to understand it can get the maps off of your GPS to work with the more basic models that don't install from CD or download.

You can also pull the maps off your GPS with Mapsource. Not sure why you'd want to since you can have multiple versions of the maps on your PC's hard drive and select which one you're planning from on the menu bar.

Still too much tool-switching, for routing, waypoint creation, panning, etc.

This is true. But once you learn a certain "work flow" it becomes second nature.

I wonder if we sat down and I showed you how I design a route in mapsource there would be an Ah-ha! moment somewhere. I did that with FJRed last summer and he said that there were a few things we did that he didn't know about. Sorry I can't remember specifics.

 

[wfooshee]

On the "also in Mapsource," I was typing from memory and was thinking of Streets and Trips, not MapSource. Oops. Didn't mean to lie. Streets and Trips has a speed setup, but it's not specific, it's just "slower" or "faster." Slower or faster than what? The speed limit? Traffic? Fairlaner? And Street and Trips has a road preference setup, but it's only 4 types, and you can't specify it until you've actually built a route.

I'm not sure about the "pick up where you left off" myself. Now, if I've exported a route to a .gpx file, nothing I do in playing with that route changes that .gpx file until I export over it. Whatever is saved when I exit (so it can resume) is not overwriting anything I specifically exported. So for your abort, just re-import the .gpx file any time.

Pulling the maps: from what I'm given to understand on some other GPS forums, the basic Nuvi devices can't be used with MapSource, because there's no way to use the map in the device, or to transfer the resulting route except as a set of waypoints. Apparently BaseCamp can get those maps onto your PC so you can work with the "big" screen, but I don't know how. I don't have (or want) a Nuvi, so I can't check that out.

As for workflow, I found BaseCamp better than MapSource, but not by a whole lot. I still far prefer Delorme's Street Atlas for ease of use, although its map data seems to lag a bit behind the other apps out there. It's also had GPX export for years, another reason I preferred it when I started. I have not encountered any map, route, or data operation in that program that I couldn't do right on the map, without having to go click a tool for it first. Streets and Trips has almost caught up in that regard, but both Garmin programs are kind of 19th century by comparison.

As I posted yesterday in my mapping programs thread, Mapquest lets you load the entire route, not just the endpoint, from their site, so for now, Mapquest is the end-all be-all of online routing convenience.

 

[yamafitter]

There is a thread over on ADV Rider that is discussing BaseCamp vs MapSource. From what I can tell the main advantage is that BaseCamp runs better on a Mac whereas MapSource was developed strictly for the PC. If you want to do more reading here is the link on ADV Rider:

MapSource vs BaseCamp

 

[wfooshee]

Well, of course BaseCamp runs better on a Mac. There's actually a Mac version!!! Kind of important for the 1%.

 

[BwanaDik]

On the "also in Mapsource," I was typing from memory and was thinking of Streets and Trips, not MapSource. Oops. Didn't mean to lie. Streets and Trips has a speed setup, but it's not specific, it's just "slower" or "faster." Slower or faster than what? The speed limit? Traffic? Fairlaner? And Street and Trips has a road preference setup, but it's only 4 types, and you can't specify it until you've actually built a route.

The slower and faster are totally relative and also depends on the type of road you're routing on. I've chosen a 60 mile route on several roads in S&T to see what the "faster" and "slower" really meant. I think the top speed on an interstate (faster) is 70 MPH. That same setting on a U.S. highway would give closer to 62 MPH. It can really throw off your TSD calculations if you're not aware of it. I did a BB1500 routing once, one direction was mostly secondary roads, the other mostly interstate. Both were set at "faster" but the interstate route was like 3 or four hours less.

I have a 2002 version of S&T I use for IBA ride calculations where I can put in the exact average speed I figure I can make for my TSD figuring.

 

[Fred W]

Pulling the maps: from what I'm given to understand on some other GPS forums, the basic Nuvi devices can't be used with MapSource, because there's no way to use the map in the device, or to transfer the resulting route except as a set of waypoints. Apparently BaseCamp can get those maps onto your PC so you can work with the "big" screen, but I don't know how. I don't have (or want) a Nuvi, so I can't check that out.

I think that is more a factor of the capabilities of the nuvi in question rather than the routing program. I have a nuvi 765W, which is freakishly similar in look and feel and function to my Zumo 660 (only big differences are no IPX4 waterproof and no BT output) and that GPS accepts routes just the same as the Zoomer does. A lot of the nuvis run a defeatured version of software, keeping the overhead low so the units run quicker for all the "take me there" crowd. The number of people owning a GPS willing to actually plan and follow an intricate route is pretty small. Most people just want to search for a waypoint and then click: GO!

 

[yamafitter]

One of the added features in BaseCamp that was difficult to do in Mapsource is to convert a track to a route. For those of us that plan events for other riders it is very handy to be able to go out and explore an idea for a route and then then just download the track and convert it to a route with just a few clicks of the mouse. This was a very labour intensive task using Mapsource involving a lot of cutting and pasting.

Garmin has some videos that explains some of the features of BaseCamp:

BaseCamp Training Videos

 

[Fred W]

I'll probably take the time to sit through all of the training videos, but here's the very first thing that I don't like / can't find with BaseCamp:

When I have a route up on the screen and select it, in Mapsource you can just click on any point along the route and drag that route to a new viapoint. This feature doesn't seem to be available in BaseCamp, or at least I haven't found it yet.

 

[wfooshee]

Select the route from the list on the left. then get the insert tool at the top, then click on the route. You get the lines you can drag anywhere, just like MapSource then. Hit ESC to get out of Insert mode. I haven't found how to turn off the auto-recalc, which can cause significant delays while editing large routes.

One thing I think I'm liking is that all the data of your device is available while the device is connected. On the left is the folder under your device, and just copying and pasting between that and "My Collection" moves the data around. It was very easy to copy a route and its waypoints between 2 devices, just by copying from the first to My Collection, then connecting the second device and copying again.

Down side of that is that it reads that stuff onto the screen every time you connect the device, so a really loaded device will (again) have a significant delay.

(I'm starting to see a pattern, here . . . .)

 

[Willie]

I have it. Came with a lifetime maps upgrade to my Zumo 660, I think.

I've looked at it. It seems to be pretty much the same thing as Mapsource in a slightly different wrapper.

Being an old dog, I still use my old tricks, on Mapsource. I really don't see how Mapsource is/was so bad. You just need to learn all those tricks.

+1 on what you said

I have been using MS for 7 or so years, coming from the Streets and Trips world before that. MS, IMHO is every bit as good as S&T and no conversion problem. What I did find was coming from the StreetPilot world to the Nuvi/Zumo world was loading the planned routes from the PC to the Unit. Much different, but adaptable. What I have found that MS has gotten to be a resource pig over time. Ways around it, like dropping your detail level when zoomed in.

As far as MS being dropped, it may not be developed further, but I believe there is no intent to be dropped by Garmin. The product will continue to work, so that would not be a reason to not get used to MS.

Willie

 

[Fred W]

Select the route from the list on the left. then get the insert tool at the top, then click on the route. You get the lines you can drag anywhere, just like MapSource then. Hit ESC to get out of Insert mode. I haven't found how to turn off the auto-recalc, which can cause significant delays while editing large routes.

I see, said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

(yeah it's Friday)

Silly me... I was trying to use the "select" tool and now there is the new "insert" tool. I kind of like the new insert as when you hover over the route it shows how big the existing route segment is. I'll have to keep playing. IT might be worth learning all these new BaseCamp tricks afterall...

 

[wfooshee]

I have been using MS for 7 or so years, coming from the Streets and Trips world before that. MS, IMHO is every bit as good as S&T and no conversion problem. What I did find was coming from the StreetPilot world to the Nuvi/Zumo world was loading the planned routes from the PC to the Unit. Much different, but adaptable. What I have found that MS has gotten to be a resource pig over time. Ways around it, like dropping your detail level when zoomed in.

As far as MS being dropped, it may not be developed further, but I believe there is no intent to be dropped by Garmin. The product will continue to work, so that would not be a reason to not get used to MS.

Willie

S&T that long ago wasn't any better than MapSource. The 2010 version is light-years better, with better tool coordination, and gpx export (finally!) so no 3rd-party utility needed to get from S&T to the GPS. See my other thread for more comparisons. Working on BaseCamp to get it in there soon.

 

[Fred W]

I think my biggest issue with using any third party application which just send gpx files to the GPS is that you forgo the proprietary advantages of using Garmin "intersection points". When I format a route I insert lots and lots of via points to be sure that the route follows my every whim. By placing the via points on an intersection they become an "intersection point" which a modern Garmin GPS does not announce, and which it ignores when calculating the time and distance to the next turn.

When I'm developing routes for use by others, who may or may not have a modern Garmin GPS, I just make sure to place all of route shaping intersection points only on intersections that you will be going straight through, so if the GPS happens to announce the point it will not supercede it from giving the turn directions. This iseems to work out pretty well.

When loading a route from a generic gpx file, all via points become "map points" which are always announced, and which become the distance and time to turn markers on the GPS.