Garmin Zumo 550 MP3 Random Play Algorithm

[HaulinAshe]

I've played around with directory structure, filenames, genre and most all the other associated metadata tags. I've read a bunch of threads on the Zumo forum and experimented a bit. Here's what I believe to be truths I've learned.

* The Zumo MP3 Random Play button/algorithm works off Song Title.

* The play order is determined when you press the Random/Repeat button. The order does not change unless songs are added/deleted or the unit is restarted without the Random/Repeat activated.

* It always begins with the first selection of alphabetical order. Song #1 is always the first played when the Random/Repeat is selected and Play is pressed for the first time. It never starts with Song #2 etc.

* Zumo does NOT like directories/folders with more than 250 files per folder. One would expect 255 to be the threshold, but 250 seems to be the magic number.



*** Edit/Note ***

After starting this thread, I've settled on using ten(10) folders with a maximum of 100 files each to reduce startup/load time. See the later post in this thread for specifics.

* Zumo likes all music files to be at the same level from the root of the SD card.

It likes...

/Music/A-F/songs.mp3

/Music/G-L/songs.mp3

/Music/M-S/songs.mp3

/Music/T-Z/songs.mp3

It does NOT like...

/Music/Rock/Artist1/song.mp3

/Music/moresongs.mp3

* Placing MP3 song files in different folder levels from the root, causes the Zumo to reset the player and often disables the Play button to Pause. This causes the entire Random/Repeat mix to reset and restart when you press Play again. Which in turn, causes the early selections to be played over and over, often without ever playing the selections in the later part of the random list.

If you want to see this in action for yourself, place a small group of 10-12 song files on a SD card in various folder structures. Set Random/Repeat, Play and press the FF/Next button and watch what happens. When you have all the songs on the same folder level, it will play the same song# order, over and over without fail.

If you place the song files in various levels that are 2 or more levels apart, it will reset frequently. This is especially true if you place a bunch of songs in a "deep" folder and single files in several "shallow" folders.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bottom Line is...

My advice is place all your MP3s in folders of approximately 200 songs each. Keep them balanced in count and at the same level of steps from the root. IMHO it greatly improves Random Repeat play.

It matters when you listen to the same SD card for 10 days straight!

 

[jmdaniel]

It matters when you listen to the same SD card for 10 days straight!

4 SD cards here, 10G total, no issues with getting bored.

 

[TriggerT]

I figured out that mine plays in alphabetical order of the song title the first time I used it. Between 2 gigs of MP3 files ,and the XM radio, I get plenty of variety.

 

[colin]

dayum, you are really getting value for money with that thing with getting to these types of observations.... !

How did you figure that 250 is an upper limit? what happens above that? I put all mine on one level, thousand or so songs. Haven't really paid attention to the randomness, mostly cuz I switch back and forth between the zumo for music and the iPod (mostly cuz there isn't a one-touch mute on the zumo, which is irritating at stop lights and wanting to chat with a buddy next to you....)

 

[HaulinAshe]

I have two 4-GB SD cards for the Zumo. I also spent hours and hours filtering through my music library and have collected 3.8 GB of my favorites. That's 720 songs x 3.2 minutes (average) each = 38.4 hours before a song repeats. At 10 hours/day on the bike for long trips, I'm starting to hear the same songs again by the end of Day-4, which was not bad.

The big problem was that due to the idiosyncrasy of the Random/Repeat resetting itself, I never made it anywhere close to the end of the list before everything would reset and start all over again. That's the main point of my post.

 

[HaulinAshe]

How did you figure that 250 is an upper limit? what happens above that?

What I have seen is the Zumo sometimes fails to recognize all the songs. I did the same thing a few times and put 700-800 songs in one folder. When you fire up the Zumo and engage the Random/Repeat, it would show something like playing 1/272 or playing 79/265. It would recognize more than 250 songs, but not much more.

So my 250 guideline is just that, a guideline, certainly not a hard science. I did try some tests at 255 and 256 songs, just to see if there was some sorta bug at the 8-bit level (256). I had the same problems with that count in one folder except it would show something like playing 1/183. So I backed it down to 250 and everything worked repeatedly and I always got my total song count displayed.

Make sense?

Then again, I could easily be confusing a perceived song count issue with a folder structure issue. I readily admit it has taken way more time to test things and try to make some sense of what's going wrong, than I ever wanted to invest.

 

[HaulinAshe]

dayum, you are really getting value for money with that thing with getting to these types of observations.... !

I've got 46,000 miles on my Zumo too.

 

[Aasland]

Hm, I've had 900 songs in a folder without issues ..

Well, one issue. The more tracks (audiobooks, songs, podcasts, etc) there are, the longer it takes for the Zumo to read them. And it won't navigate until they're all read, which can take upwards of five minutes.

How hard can it be to overcome this? The code on the Zumo is upgradeable - I wonder if we can put some pressure on Garmin to get these issues fixed?

 

[dcarver]

Wow, Jeff, you must have been thinking about the Zumo the entire trip. Did you see any trees along the way?

I've not messed with Random Play.

Looks like I have something to do now on the way to NAFO!

 

[twowheelnut]

Note to self: Spend some time with the music collect.

Further note to self: Buy Ashe a beer.

 

[KillerMedic]

Good info as I just got my ZUMO 550 and am learning it.

Heads up for those that may need one....Best Buy has the SanDisk 4GB Ultra II SDHC card with included USB reader (needed if your current card reader cannot do SDHC) for $29.99 (it's in the digi-cam section.) The Zumo can read the SDHC after firmware 3.0 (current is 4.20) and the MP3 readable playlist was increased from 500 to 1000 so you can use all of the 4gb, and then some. I confirmed this last night...it is good to go!

Medic...out!

 

[Ignacio]

I think some of your observations apply to the 2730 as well. We're limited to 750MB of internal memory....so get a random that doesn't at all seem random....especially when one racks up 3000 miles in a long weekend.

External cards and up to 10GB.....I think I might forsee a Zumo in my future. Thanks.

 

[Herkypilot]

It matters when you listen to the same SD card for 10 days straight!

8 Gig HC card here - I think it works out to about 14 days of 24hr play. Should be good unless I try for a new iron butt record. :blink:

Thanks for the info Jeff.

Herkypilot

 

[6mmbr]

wow

I'm a piker when it comes to music

can I mail somebody some blank SD cards to get filled up?

(happy to throw in a couple or so jacksons too)

 

[Herkypilot]

It matters when you listen to the same SD card for 10 days straight!

8 Gig HC card here - I think it works out to about 14 days of 24hr play or something like that.

Thanks for the info Jeff.

Herkypilot

 

[gasportrider]

The big problem was that due to the idiosyncrasy of the Random/Repeat resetting itself, I never made it anywhere close to the end of the list before everything would reset and start all over again. That's the main point of my post.

Jeff,

Great post! I have 1,000 songs on an 8GB card in what I thought was a fairly flat file structure with an //garmin/mp3/artist/album/songtitle.mp3 format and encountered the same problem with shuffle resets as you experienced. I just bought two new 8GB Class 6 SDHC cards at $27 each at MicroCenter and look forward to implementing your suggestion as a solution to re-hearing Zumo's favorites.

One "twist" on the Zumo 1,000 song limitation is the use of MP3 Direct Cut or other similar software to create "albums" in which you combine songs by an artist or create your own "medley" in one large file that counts as only ONE song toward your 1,000 song count on the Zumo. My 1,000 songs occupy only 4.24 GB of my card. I hope to achieve a substantial increase in song density per card. While reading about MP3 Direct Cut, there were some suggestions to limit the "album" to 12 or so songs just like a vinyl record. I guess that will help to keep you from getting tired of the same artist playing a bunch of songs in a row and avoid some frustration in the creation process. Also, I expect to "lose" the display of individual song titles on each of my album creations. We'll see.

Another happy circumstance enabled by your 4 folder paradigm is the ability to group songs by type or genre so you can select according to your mood, all without changing your card. I anticipate there may be some speed improvements on loading, too.

Wouldn't it be great to have an MP3 "swap meet" at EOM or other large rallys? I'll definitely be bringing my laptop to EOM. We could all bring some extra SDHC cards and share a little music. Alternatively, we could download and burn some DVD data disks for storage.

I'll cross post on the EOM site and invite some "swaps" at the meet.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Another happy circumstance enabled by your 4 folder paradigm is the ability to group songs by type or genre so you can select according to your mood, all without changing your card. I anticipate there may be some speed improvements on loading, too.

I have used a 4-5 folder filing system with each folder a separate genre. Two things I can note about that approach.

1. It's harder than you think to get four balanced genre folders with approximately equal number of songs in each. This can result in a sloppy Random/Repeat order.

2. The Zumo still lists the genre according to the embedded tags in the MP3 file itself. So even if you only have four genre folders, it may display a bunch more if you Browse by Genre. You have to use a music editor program to replace the genre tags in order to minimize the variations.

I apologize for rambling on about this. As you can tell it has plagued me for a long time, and I found the Zumo forum to be completely freakin' useless.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Just for yucks, I just tested the startup time. Here's the specs:

4 GB SDHC card

3.8 GB MP3s (725 songs, 192 kbps data rate)

Four(4) music folders two levels from root (\Music\A-F, \Music\G-L...)

250 song maximum per folder

Bluetooth enabled and coupled to phone only

Clean database (no routes, no sizeable track log, only favorites)

Startup time to map display and music playing was 2:50.

I'm going to build another test card with 10 folders of 100 max. each, just to see if it loads any faster.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Okay, WOW!!!

What a difference more folders makes in load time!

Created ten(10) folders, all at two levels from the root. (\Music\0\, \Music\1\, \Music\2\...)

Loaded the same 725 song files into the first seven folders with a maximum of 100 in each. All files in the exact same order as when they were separated alphabetically.

Startup time from power-on to music playing reduced from 2:50 to 1:55.

With the current Zumo software limited to 1,000 songs, I think I'm sticking with this ten(10) folder arrangement.