Gear Question

[TheZsdad]

It was daytime (about 4:45pm) and I was going north, she was going south and decided to turn left right on top of me. I had zero time to react, and according to the police report - it's the most famous line in motorcycle history. "I never saw him..."

Hence, my new found interest in Hi-Viz instead of flat black.

Nothing against the Hi-Viz stuff but I think making the the bike more conspicuous with lights would be more effective with left turners.

BTW I'd go with Hi-Viz green helmet to match my eyes.

 

[BikerGeek99]

After a negligent driver plowed into me in May, I need replace my bike and all riding gear.

Damn!! Glad you're here to talk to us, and good for you to get back on a bike!! Where in Michigan are ya?

the helmet is the highest point on the bike and hi viz most effective up there IMHO

I've gotta agree with Mikey.

My gear is an Aerostitch Transit Suit which comes in any color you want as long as it's black. So I wanted something that would stand out - I went with the hi-viz yellow Scorpion EXO700. The wife did as well. I cannot tell you how many times over the last few years when complete strangers have approached us at rest areas / gas stations to tell us how well they could see us coming and going. My response: "Good! That's the whole idea!!" Some of 'em "get it," some don't, but at least they saw us.

It seems to me that even a hi-viz jacket is going to be mostly hidden by the bike's faring from the front, and if you're running a tail case (like me - I've got one ugly-ass Givi out back; it has "patina") it would mostly block your hi-viz jacket. To me, it seems to make sense that since the helmet is the highest point on the bike, and has 360-degree visibility, it makes the most sense to have the helmet stand out as much as possible. But, that's just me.

Another contributing factor to me getting a can-you-see-me-now helmet was the experience of our own Old Michael. He decided to see what'd happen if you ride an FJR off a cliff. They spotted him in a tree because of his solid-yellow helmet.

I think additional lighting - front and rear - is helpful as well. I don't have any running lights up front (yet; I wouldn't mind some of the fork-mounted lights some day), but I have the Admore kit for the side bags. They seem to really help.

 

[Brobee]

After a negligent driver plowed into me in May, I need replace my bike and all riding gear.

Damn!! Glad you're here to talk to us, and good for you to get back on a bike!! Where in Michigan are ya?

the helmet is the highest point on the bike and hi viz most effective up there IMHO

I've gotta agree with Mikey.

My gear is an Aerostitch Transit Suit which comes in any color you want as long as it's black. So I wanted something that would stand out - I went with the hi-viz yellow Scorpion EXO700. The wife did as well. I cannot tell you how many times over the last few years when complete strangers have approached us at rest areas / gas stations to tell us how well they could see us coming and going. My response: "Good! That's the whole idea!!" Some of 'em "get it," some don't, but at least they saw us.

It seems to me that even a hi-viz jacket is going to be mostly hidden by the bike's faring from the front, and if you're running a tail case (like me - I've got one ugly-ass Givi out back; it has "patina") it would mostly block your hi-viz jacket. To me, it seems to make sense that since the helmet is the highest point on the bike, and has 360-degree visibility, it makes the most sense to have the helmet stand out as much as possible. But, that's just me.

Another contributing factor to me getting a can-you-see-me-now helmet was the experience of our own Old Michael. He decided to see what'd happen if you ride an FJR off a cliff. They spotted him in a tree because of his solid-yellow helmet.

I think additional lighting - front and rear - is helpful as well. I don't have any running lights up front (yet; I wouldn't mind some of the fork-mounted lights some day), but I have the Admore kit for the side bags. They seem to really help.

Thanks - not entirely sure what did in order to survive, but I guess I did something right. I am in SW Michigan (near Kalamazoo).

I ordered my Sonora yesterday and am leaning toward the White Sy-Max III to go with it now. The idea of mounting some LED lights on/near the forks would be really nice too.

 

[Top_Speed1]

+1 on the lighting

I got the (not chinese) but real Osram/Philips HID's in mine, wayyy more visible than the OEM halogen headlights. After having a friend drive mine up & down the road in daylight (as I was watching) I do not believe I need any additional LED's or additional lamp clutter.

 

[Chuck35]

I ride as if every vehicle on the road fully intends to kill me. It would be nerve racking except I don't have all that much to live for lol .

I'd like to add a pair of fork mounted lights, not only for visibility but to hopefully get a bit of "turn in" light.

 

[Rheal]

Silver.

goes with whatever jachet you choose. Even if you go back to black someday

Its cool temp wise (though white is even cooler)

Looks great no matter what Colorado tout bike is

faster than white.

+1 and +1

Rheal (Kermit)

 

[Bounce]

+1 chuck.

For years I used to tell new riders to ride like they were invisible. Over the past 10 or 15 years, I've started telling them to ride like everyone sees them and is intentionally trying to kill them.

 

[RPrice]

+1 chuck.

For years I used to tell new riders to ride like they were invisible. Over the past 10 or 15 years, I've started telling them to ride like everyone sees them and is intentionally trying to kill them.

Yep!!!

 

[bucky]

During the early morning, daytime and at dusk, I ride with my brights on. Even the slight motion up/down of the bike on the road makes those high beams more visible. The fact that this probably really annoys others, shows it works.

 

[Toter]

After a negligent driver plowed into me in May, I need replace my bike and all riding gear. I plan on buying a 2011 or 2012 FJR in about a month and have decided to go with the Tour Master Sonora Hi-Viz jacket. My choice of helmet will be the HJC Sy-Max III, but I keep flip-flopping on what color to get that may compliment either color of bike. One option would be to go for the complete yellow power ranger look (Hi-Viz), but then I start thinking about silver or white.

Here's what the jacket looks like:

So...what color helmet would you go with if you were sitting on a blue or silver FJR with this jacket? I don't want to get black again.

Jacket and helmet color are not going to greatly impact your visibility in my opinion. Headlight and taillight flashers are far superior and present an out of the ordinary visual signal to oncoming and following drivers. They are not going to help you if someone blows through a stop light or sign and T-bones you. The only defense for that is looking left-right-left before entering an intersection. Old UPS space and visibility training there! Jacket and helmet should be selected on what you like.

Ed

 

[someguy]

Here's what the jacket looks like:

Jacket and helmet color are not going to greatly impact your visibility in my opinion. Headlight and taillight flashers are far superior and present an out of the ordinary visual signal to oncoming and following drivers. They are not going to help you if someone blows through a stop light or sign and T-bones you. The only defense for that is looking left-right-left before entering an intersection. Old UPS space and visibility training there! Jacket and helmet should be selected on what you like.

Ed

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Ed...

had to write, couldn't help it.

totally disagree in part...

and like you, this is generally my opinion, so FWIW,

having been riding for over 30 years (and worked plenty of vehicle crashes), and having been down twice due to drivers pulling into or in front of me, when in a cage i pay pay close attention, (study, if you will) what bikers are wearing and look for things that work. I can assure you that a high vis jacket (and even helmet) has a very significant impact on what drivers actually "see". I think there's a photo earlier in this thread that lends credence to the lights AND Hi Viz logic.

In a road full of silver, red, black, blue and every other color cars, along with shadows and light, you never see a 'hi-viz' vehicle unless it's a fire/rescue/EMS vehicle. just the nature of it being visually "different" from every other vehicle on the road will increase your odds of being seen.

And let's consider for a moment the legal nuance here... in the event of a crash, assuming you survive the crash and you go to court in a civil suit, Exhibit A being your Hi-Viz jacket/helmet will show you as a safety minded citizen rider who wants very much to be seen by other drivers. This cannot hurt your case or the case of your surviving family. You can be damn sure a jury will look more favorably on the victim wearing "safety" gear than the all black crowd.

Lights help!! i agree on this point, but every vehicle on the road has lights. Not every vehicle is sporting hi viz yellow or orange.

If "safe as possible" is the goal, then hi-viz AND lights set you apart and attract more attention.

JMHO...(with a little experience)

 

[TheZsdad]

I'm going to suggest that motorcycle riders are not the best judge of which is more effective lights vs. Hi-Viz for being seen

by left turners. Yeah we all drive cagers but we are riders driving a cage. Hell I've even banged my hand on the car door

trying to low five another rider.

We look for bikes because we are interested. We see the shape, colors, lights and gear because we are interested.

I would like to see a study using cagers that don't ride and don't know a rider. Of course this is my VHO.

 

[Neil San Diego]

I went with a yellow helmet this time around. I think it looks fine with a blue bike, but that wasn't the point of choosing the yellow. I have had several people make comments about how "shocking" the helmet is. Great! That's the point!

And yea, fookin' damned left turners! Glad you're OK.

 

[SacramentoMike]

I'm finding this thread interesting and useful--so far it's made me think about this subject in a couple of ways that I haven't really looked at too deeply before. First, I'd like to say that it shouldn't be--and isn't--a question of

". . . which is more effective lights vs. Hi-Viz for being seen by left turners,"

. . . because it's not H-V versus lights or anything else. Lights help. H-V helps. Add 'em up and it helps more. If you want max visibility, you'll do everything you can, right? And not to pick on any one post, but Z'sdad also said this:

We look for bikes because we are interested. We see the shape, colors, lights and gear because we are interested.

I would like to see a study using cagers that don't ride and don't know a rider. Of course this is my VHO.

I agree, but it didn't stop l this from happening to me a couple of weeks ago. I ride, and I was riding when I almost pulled out in front of an approaching scooter. You have to be aware of them, but you have to SEE them too, and this one just didn't show up very well in those circumstances. As I said in my post, it would have helped if she'd had better front end lighting. Or been weaving a bit, as was mentioned earlier.

OTOH, lights aren't always enough either. I have lots--3 sets of Hyperlites on the back end, a couple strips of stick-on LEDs, a very bright reflective strip all around my top case and side case reflectors too, but in the daytime, none of that makes a really huge difference. Night, yes. Day, not so much. Look at both pics Tom posted below.

I think lights are much more effective than Hi-Viz clothing. especially widely spaced lighting that gives motorists a wide enough target to detect motion and closure. Individual headlights, and even the FJR twin lights don't give this width. The bikes in the picture below show how a difference of 100 feet makes a huge difference in the visible target width..That is Sacramento Mike in front, Old Michael in the rear.

Compared to standard lighting:

The lit-up bikes in the top picture really jump out--and this picture doesn't even do the aux lights justice, since in person they show up WAY better than the headlights do. In the pic, they' hardly seem brighter at all. But if you compare the 3rd bike (OM) in the top picture to the bikes in the second picture (in full sun), the stock headlights show up much better. So I guess lights show up better in the dark than in the daylight. Not much of a surprise.

If there was one more picture that showed the LED-equipped bikes in full sun, they'd show up better than the ones without LEDs--at least they would if the pictures really showed what you'd see if you were approaching from the other direction. But it's pretty easy to imagine how the riders in any of these pictures would look with good High-Viz gear and helmets. The riders in those gray and silver outfits in the second pic, especially, would be SO much more visible in good bright colors.

Anyway, and finally getting back to the question raised in post no. 1--What About Hi-Viz Gear? Well, I like my gray Olympia Airglide jacket a lot. Also my black CyclePort gear that I use in the more temperate times of year, and the warm, black leather riding jacket I use in the coldest weather we get around here. I don't want to abandon any of them for a different jacket in Hi-Viz. Might replace one with H-V if it ever needs replacing, but not yet.

Tom's statement that "lights are much more effective than Hi-Viz clothing" is open to debate, but I don't think it's debatable that they BOTH help. So the answer for me is that I'm now looking for a good bright mesh vest with bright reflective strips all around to wear over the jackets I have--day and night. And keep my lights shining too. Looks like the best solution for me.

 

[TomInPA]

If there was one more picture that showed the LED-equipped bikes in full sun, they'd show up better than the ones without LEDs--at least they would if the pictures really showed what you'd see if you were approaching from the other direction. But it's pretty easy to imagine how the riders in any of these pictures would look with good High-Viz gear and helmets. The riders in those gray and silver outfits in the second pic, especially, would be SO much more visible in good bright colors.

Thanks for asking...Full daylight differences are not so much. These are about the same distance and angle in full sun with snow in the background. That's about as bright as you can get..

 

[RayW]

This thread got me thinking a bit...

<tongue FIRMLY in cheek here>

Since when we ride responsibly NO ONE ever sees us....

and...

Since when we do something wrong or stupid EVERYONE sees us....

how about...

We all do WHEELIES as we approach an intersection!!!

That way everyone would be sure to see us and not pull out in front of us!!

It would have the added advantage of having us all prepared to just drive over top of any car that did get in our way!

Honest officer...I was just trying to be SAFE!!

:yahoo:

Ray

 

[azitlies]

Here's one from Oz...

what do we have to do to be noticed? pretty funny!