Gen 1 Front brake claiper sticking?

[Bugnatr]

I noticed while preparing to remove my front wheel for a new tire that the rotor was making noise like it was rubbing the pads (left side sounded louder) more than usual and the tire would not rotate much more than a half a turn when I gave it a spin.

The bike has 76k with regular brake fluid changes and new Yamaha pads a while back when I replaced the rotors due to floppy floating rivets(?) but nothing done to calipers.

Looking for help as for what to check and how to rebuild the caliper if this is my problem plus part #'s, etc. - Thanks, Bug

 

[FJRay]

Even with regular fluid changes you will build up some crud inside the caliper. I have had good results with carefull disassembly and cleaning with brake clean. I have reused the original seals without problems. It's not a tough job just take your time and pay attention.

 

[Fred W]

Pads dragging is normal. The wheel should not spin freely with the brake calipers in place. Hell it doesn't spin all that much with them removed due to wheel bearing drag. Try to find another FJR owner nearby to compare with.

 

[Bugnatr]

Thanks Gents, IF pads were dragging would I see excessive wear on one set or feel a much hotter rotor after a ride?

May just take Rays advice if I weren't so lazy .

 

[SkooterG]

Pads dragging is normal. The wheel should not spin freely with the brake calipers in place. Hell it doesn't spin all that much with them removed due to wheel bearing drag. Try to find another FJR owner nearby to compare with.

Hmmmm.......

I guess everything is relative. Yes, pads dragging is normal, but the front wheel should rotate a lot more than half a turn with a good yank. Perhaps two or three? I think that is what mine does. And if the calipers are off, it will continute rotating for quite some time. 10-15 revolutions or so? I am pretty sure that on all my wheels you don't hear the pads continually drag, just the occasional rub where something is off slightly, be it rotor or wheel.

I think there is somthing wrong with the 'Natr's. Pistons probably just need a good cleaning.

 

[wfooshee]

Having been through this last fall I can state with absolute certainty that the OP needs caliper seals. The wheel should freewheel two or three turns at least, and not just the quarter turn he states.

That's what mine was doing, I knew I needed to do the work on the calipers, and kept puting it off. Well, the bike ate a set of front pads (OEM) in less that 20K miles, so the next set got a caliper rebuild, too.

The seal kits are expensive, well over a hunnert bucks for 16 round rubber rings. For the Gen-I there are two different kits, one part number for the large pistons and one for the smaller, and each kit does one pair of calipers, so you need 4 kits, 2 of each part number. ABS or not makes no difference to how many.

What happens in cases like his and mine is that the piston does not release fully, keeps too much pressure against the rotor, dragging the pad. Not enough to overheat the brakes, but enough to drag just a bit, and certainly enough to grind off some pad material and shorten the pads' life.

 

[madmike2]

I think there is somthing wrong with the 'Natr's. Pistons probably just need a good cleaning.

Yep!

 

[Dr. Bones]

just clean the pistons. If you don't the brake rotor will heat up and warp from continual friction causing you to need a new rotor. BTDT. Disassempling the calipers and changing the brake fluid is very easy. Yes pads drag on the rotor, but you will get more revolutions than a half. Just light friction.

 

[Bugnatr]

OK sounds like it's time to start with a good cleaning. I have the Yamaha shop manual and will start with Rays advice. After a good cleaning I'll see how they behave. Not really much for riding weather in these parts anyway, pucking rainy Kalifornia :angry:

 

[SkooterG]

My advice, if you are truly lazy like I am, is not to remove all the pistons as that makes the jobs somewhat of a messy PITA. But simply push three of the pistons in, which will cause the fourth to extend. Clean that piston with a toothbrush and brake cleaner, then push it in and move on to the next.

The first time I removed all the pistons, but the last two times I perfomed this maintenance I did it as described above.

 

[LAF]

My advice, if you are truly lazy like I am, is not to remove all the pistons as that makes the jobs somewhat of a messy PITA. But simply push three of the pistons in, which will cause the fourth to extend. Clean that piston with a toothbrush and brake cleaner, then push it in and move on to the next.

The first time I removed all the pistons, but the last two times I perfomed this maintenance I did it as described above.

+1

I have cleaned every brake caliper this way on every bike I have owned. I do it when I change tires every time. A toothbrush and Brake Cleen does it right up. You can see the "gunk" lines on the pistons and pushing them in, moving the other out reveals all of the dust build up.

Just don't get over forceful or you will pop a piston out and create a mess. I use a piece of plywood in the caliper so this does not happen, but I have popped a piston or three out in my day. I have never had a brake issue on any bike I have owned doing this maintenance at every tire change.

 

[wfooshee]

Cleaning is where I started and it made not a lick of difference. You're gonna be back in there, so ya may as well get the seals and do it right.

It truly sucks to do all that work cleaning those pistons with your wife's toothbrush and nothing changes.

 

[RadioHowie]

It truly sucks to do all that work cleaning those pistons with your wife's toothbrush and nothing changes.

So THAT'S what you did to piss her off, hmmmmm???

And think about it....things DID change.....I believe your house is a LOT quieter now??

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...my front wheel...would not rotate much more than a half a turn when I gave it a spin.The bike has 76k with regular brake fluid changes...but nothing done to calipers.

Looking for help...etc. - Thanks, Bug

Even with regular fluid changes you will build up some crud inside the caliper. I have had good results with carefull disassembly and cleaning with brake clean. I have reused the original seals without problems. It's not a tough job just take your time and pay attention.

...I can state with absolute certainty that the OP needs caliper seals.What happens in cases like his and mine is that the piston does not release fully, keeps too much pressure against the rotor, dragging the pad. Not enough to overheat the brakes, but enough to drag just a bit, and certainly enough to grind off some pad material and shorten the pads' life.

Cleaning is where I started and it made not a lick of difference. You're gonna be back in there, so ya may as well get the seals and do it right.

+ 1 ^^^ what 'wfooshee' said -- the main caliper seal "shape" functions to pull the caliper piston back into the caliper some (along with what little random motion the rotor might contribute).

What, sometimes, becomes an issue here is: corrosion caused by electrolysis (dis-similar metals -- caliper & piston) and any moisture that may be present in the, hygroscopic, brake fluid (or, moisture from ambient environment...?). That corrosion is evidenced in the form of white, powdery, deposits -- looks like blisters -- often found in the main rubber seal groove in the caliper. As the condition worsens, acidic corrosion applies more pressure to the caliper seal -- just makes things worse.

Cleaning should, therefore, include removal of the main caliper seal and inspection of the seal groove -- cleaning (scraping/sanding) if necessary.

Worst case scenario: wire brushing the caliper piston and honing the caliper bore. Sometimes, new caliper assemblies are required (absolute worst-case-scenario).

You're welcome -- good luck.

 

[dannymax]

I'm not a big fan of 'assuming' the seal grooves and piston bore are corrosion free....what's $100 when you're talking about your motorcycle brakes? That's not even the cost of a minor farkle.

Cleaning the pistons will probably help in many cases but when it gets to the point that the pads are dragging, get the seal kits and do it right. It's not that big a job.

 

[SkooterG]

I'm not a big fan of 'assuming' the seal grooves and piston bore are corrosion free....what's $100 when you're talking about your motorcycle brakes? That's not even the cost of a minor farkle.

Cleaning the pistons will probably help in many cases but when it gets to the point that the pads are dragging, get the seal kits and do it right. It's not that big a job.

Agree to disagree? I think it is a big PITA, messy job. I considered doing it, but with the cost of the seals and the PITA factor, I just cleaned, and not very often at that. They are just brakes. Not magic.

226,000 miles on those brakes on my first FJR.

 

[wnyfjr]

I'm having new shoes put on in a week or so and I think I'll have them check my front brakes. When I jockey the bike in or out of the garage I can hear the front pads dragging on the rotor. Not sure how bad, as I haven't tried to spin the wheel yet... No issues I can feel with braking action at all, but then, I have nothing else to compare it to. Bike has 10k on it ('06). I don't have the gear to change my own tires at this point, so I'll suck it up and see what the guy says when he changes my tires.

 

[dannymax]

I'm not a big fan of 'assuming' the seal grooves and piston bore are corrosion free....what's $100 when you're talking about your motorcycle brakes? That's not even the cost of a minor farkle.

Cleaning the pistons will probably help in many cases but when it gets to the point that the pads are dragging, get the seal kits and do it right. It's not that big a job.

Agree to disagree? I think it is a big PITA, messy job. I considered doing it, but with the cost of the seals and the PITA factor, I just cleaned, and not very often at that. They are just brakes. Not magic.

226,000 miles on those brakes on my first FJR.

Hell yeah, no problem. I don't really mind the PITA jobs, kinda enjoy overcoming the issues...couple dish pans, some denatured alcohol, brake clean, some rags....Pandora on the box....a fun afternoon! :yahoo:

Come to think of it, it may be more mental than mechanical with me, (after all, I DID get 'no-drill' sliders).

But there's no arguing with 226,000 miles worth of success either!!

 

[Bugnatr]

Another cold wet Saturday made for a perfect day to tear into the calipers. With the expert help from a friend (I was a motorcycle brake caliper virgin) we R&R the pistons.

While removing the pistons we found some a bit sticky and the usual road grime. No noticeable pits, corrosion or other signs of trouble were evident on the pistons, seals etc. so I cheaped out with just a cleaning.

So with a good cleaning of the pistons back in they go. All was well until we started to bled the brakes when a slight fluid leak was found at the banjo fitting because we tried to use the original crush washers on each side of the banjo.

Crap, Rosevile Yamaha has them for 2.83 each but they are 45 minutes away. Time to check the local Honda shop and with some luck I bought their last 4 for a 1.00 each

Brakes bled and the bike is all back together waiting for a dry time tomorrow for a test ride. What I did notice was the front wheel spins about the same or a little better than what made me suspicious. :blink:

Still I am glad I did this as some of the pistons were not as free as others prior to the cleaning and with over 76k on an 04 it was time. Now I'm sure it will stop faster too

Thanks for all the helpful tips on this.