Gen I vs Gen II Comparison

[Warchild]

Skooter, you crack me up.. 45 pounds? BFD. What it is good at is long distance riding. When taken to extremes the IBA members and wannabees only add weight to the platform.

Allow the following observation that might provide a new perspective.

What you state is correct insofar as those that wish to be competitive in these Long Distance events are absolutely going to add fuel cells, aux lights, hydration systems, etc. to their platform of choice. These are, in fact, critical items for what we do.

Fuel: Without 11.5 gallons of on-board fuel, you'll waste precious time refilling at the gas station, or worse, have to forgo crucial points when plotting your bonus-gathering route because you don't have the fuel to meet the necessary Time-Distance-Fuel equation to catch a ferry, get to a time bonus, etc.

Aux Lights/Water: These are actually critical safety items. At 3AM in the mountains (on a moon-less night, in the rain, etc) without powerful lights to spot the deer early enough for a controlled panic-braking exercise, you could find yourself in a Bad Way. Similarly, if you're blasting along in the 110-degree heat trying to reach Hell's Canyon for a photo, or blazing along Death Valley to get to Dante's View in time, etc, etc, if you don't carry enough on-board water keep yourself hydrated, you could start to have vision problems, or starting having issues controlling the bike, etc, etc.

So competitive Endurance Riders are GOING TO be adding these systems to their mount. This is simply a given.

The DIFFERENCE is.... even after adding all that gear, that 2006 AE rider is *still* going to have to haul around 45 additional pounds that the 2003 rider is not going to have to haul around.

Which could be very significant....

 

[twowheelnut]

Oh, goody! A model year and ABS v. non-ABS war!

 

[sprint_st]

The comment on the ABS is aimed at the extra weight involved in the system (valving and computers). Extra weight=longer braking distance all other things equal.

Sorry, but the weight difference between ABS and non-ABS is as close to a non-factor as you can get. Maximum braking is achieved at the point just before traction is lost and you start to slide. Very few humans can keep in that zone, that's what makes the ABS superior. The added weight of ABS is more than offset by the ability to stay in the zone of max braking. You can achieve more variation in stopping distance by changing tire brands or pressures than by the small amount of weight difference between ABS and non-ABS. Additionally, although we may fancy ourselves as master riders, very few of us are capable of taking advantage of whatever advantages manual braking methods may have. As far as MCN goes, they don't enjoy a universal reputation for objective and scientifically correct testing methods on most motorcycle lists that I have been on.

When it comes to brakes, there is a lot of BS out there. There is the tale of HD drivers who believe that you should never use the front brake on an HD. There are lots of guys who think a motorcycle can brake shorter than a car. The list goes on.

 

[madmike2]

NEPRT....here we come. It lasted, oh, 4 hours before degenerating from discussion to flame throwing. Too bad.

Bone stock, same mileage, same gas, same rider, same day, same track. It just isn't possible. everything else is opinion and conjecture.

IMO, the extra weight, the change in final drive gearing and the wider/different fairings could account for somewhat slower 0-60 and 1/2 mile times. In the world in which we ride and/or compete on these bikes there isn't "that much" difference. Probably not enough to keep me from buying another, newer FJR. Someone that absorbed into 1/4 mile elapsed time as THE criteria is probably going to jump to the new Connie---it just has to be quicker and faster. (Can you see all the eyes beginning to glisten, the pupils constrict? The heart rate increase?)

Of course the Gen II has a bit more pork....so what? Non-ABS..ABS..Linked..non-linked? Buy what you want and ride what you bought. Why does this have to be about dividing the FJR ownership experience into sub-groups with the attendant identity issue of "MY tribe is better than YOUR tribe"? Sheesh, give it a rest. Or....the next time you are all together, have a braking contest...then switch bikes and do it again...oh, wait a minute....make sure you all have the same tires. You know that might affect the stopping distances.

Besides, everybody knows that the best combo is an '03 with '04 front forks and brakes and an '04 or aftermarket rear shock. Besides, it's "Classic Liquidsilver" rather than Cerulean or any shade of blue. :lol:

Now, back to our regular program.

 

[trmn8er]

FWIW, Motorcycle Consumer News -- January, 2007

 Yr    RW HP    RW lb/ft    Wet lbs  Top Speed  0-60 mph   ¼ Mile Sec     ¼ Mile MPH      60-0 ft.
2003  120.7    87.6          637      153        2.97        10.68         126.8        117.8
2006  121.2    87.4          682      152        4.05        11.85         117.7        130.5

Edit: For you quick clickers, I had a bit of formatting to clean up -- preview and acutal post spacing is different.

I'd take another look - the 2006 tested in MCN was an AE.

+1. These numbers mean nothing when comparing an A to an AE.

 

[slapnpop]

Man, people are stupid.

 

[madmike2]

Yuh think? :dribble:

 

[trmn8er]

Man, people are stupid.

And your comment is directed where?

 

[twowheelnut]

 

[slapnpop]

This thread in general, where most posters are simply repeating conjecture or opinion as fact. I'm tired of trying to discuss it. It happens every time the topic of ABS comes up.

 

[JSimon]

An abs fitted bike has a significant chance of saving your lift, I think it is hands down worth the insignificant decrease in performance.

I still don't get the endless debate over raw speed. If you want a really fast bike buy a busa, if you want a really quick bike buy and R1, if you want something in between buy and FJR and be happy already

 

[Warchild]

If you want a really fast bike buy a Blackbird, if you want a really quick bike buy and R1, if you want something in between buy and FJR and be happy already

Fixed your typo for ya...... now we have an accurate description! :lol:

Er... except my FJR isn't ABS....

Although my Blackbird has linked brakes....

Damn... this is so confusing.... at least my R1 is "normal".... :blink:

 

[mcatrophy]

The comment on the ABS is aimed at the extra weight involved in the system (valving and computers). Extra weight=longer braking distance all other things equal.

Sorry, extra weight does NOT mean longer braking distance.

Tyre adhesion depends on the weight of the bike pushing the tyre onto the road. More weight: more to stop, but more friction force. The two effects cancel exactly.

So long as the brakes themselves are good enough, stopping distances are the same for a light and for a heavy vehicle, all other things being equal (including, but not limited to, weight distribution, height of C of G). (OK, if you include wind resistance there is a difference, but not a major contributor at normal road speeds.)

As for the "ABS non-ABS" debate, most "experts" will tell you that a very skilled rider in ideal conditions can brake better on a non-ABS bike, but otherwise it's ABS every time (with some debate about thick gravel or snow).

I am not a "very skilled" rider, I rarely ride in "ideal conditions", I'm sure I couldn't hold my cool sufficiently to manually modulate both brakes at the verge of slipping whilst rapidly approaching my possible death.

Give me ABS every time.

 

[Slowdude]

Which is why an 18 wheeler stops quicker than a porsche...... :lol:

I think it was Colin Chapman that trumpeted the "light is right" philosophy and I believe he was dead on in theory. Now in full ATGATT mode I am pushing 300 lbs so its like I am riding 2 up all the time!! 45lbs I won't even notice.

John

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>Sorry, extra weight does NOT mean longer braking distance. Tyre adhesion depends on the weight of the bike pushing the tyre onto the road. More weight: more to stop, but more friction force. The two effects cancel exactly. So long as the brakes themselves are good enough, stopping distances are the same for a light and for a heavy vehicle, all other things being equal .....

"SAY WHAT?" Some numbers, please.... I suppose, if you got enuff horsepower -- you can accelerate same as a light weight vehicle, too? And, how about changing direction? Don't the 'Laws of Physics' apply anymore?

As for ABS -- it's a response to skidding tires and hyway users' inability to learn to stop (w/out skidding) -- it's not about 'better brakes'. Remember when the highway patrol used to measure skid-marks at the crash scene? It was good to have skid-marks, then!

I am not a "very skilled" rider

Get "skilled", please....

 

[JSimon]

I have no experience with the "Blackbird." I know that there was an occasion about 6 months after getting my FJR, back when I thought it was still quick and fast that a busa taught me otherwise in a big hurry

I have ridden both the 05 and 06 models, even though I can't fall back on an official 0-60 time I have a very hard time believing the 06 is as fast as the 05. When I drove my dealer's 05 you had to be very careful to keep his front wheel on the ground in first gear. The front end came off the ground with very little effort in first gear from a 15 mph roll on. My 06 doesn't pull anywhere near that hard, it certainly won't pull the front end off the ground. His bike will all but flip over if you don't let off the gas. Mine is probably a lot safer being slightly heavier, having linked brakes and ABS along with the longer swing arm. His is a little closer to the edge, less refined, more fun

Warchild what do you think of your R1/FJR combo? How much do you ride the R1? I know the 2007 R1 looks really good in red. I was thinking of getting rid of my FZ6 for one.

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

If I bring some beverages can I sit and watch too? :drinks:

 

[Ignacio]

I like cheese. :dribble:

In fact, I like cheese so much I bled my brake system and filled it up with Cheddar. Just the DOT 3 Medium Cheddar....not the DOT 4 Extra Sharp or the Vermont aged as I understand that's not compatible with ABS bikes.

It's decreased my stopping distance by at least 3 feet! I tested it and confirmed....so there's not use disputing this fact.

...don't know if it affects linked systems at all, but I do notice fresh grill marks on the brakes lines nearest the header. I'm thinking if I wrap them in ham I'll be ready for lunch. :yahoo:

 

[rocketdoc]

:clapping: :lol: :lol: :lol: Cheddar?? Back to the 'old cheese' thread. If you haven't moved up to that synthetic cheese in a tube you are not yet getting your full bang for your buck in the braking department.

And as far as ham goes, **** we have a whole forum of them here.

Now, time for a ride. See you later guys.

 

[twowheelnut]

If I bring some beverages can I sit and watch too? :drinks:

Yeah, bring some Bud and a couple of linked brake sammaches. Oughta be fun! Not! :lol:

Edit: Dang it! Iggy beat me to the linked brake comments whist I was on the phone, leaving my post hanging!