Going to the Dark Side

[Redfish Hunter]

I'd be on the lookout for an ****** with a broken knife!

That is because you don't know SkooterG. What he'd better be on the lookout for is a jealous husband with a broken knife. I speak from personal experience but I am not breaking one of my good knives in his tire.

When I worked as a tire installer back in the early '90s I once found a 9/16 by 1/2 inch combination wrench in a car tire. I was able to install a patch but nobody was happy with it so we replaced the tire.

 

[RadioHowie]

50,000 miles in five years????? SLACKER!

Being dead-ass broke is a bitch.....and so is being married to one.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Dumb ass. Should have learned the 17th time

Blocked I bet................ ******* hyjack

 

[TravelinLite]

Man, this is the longest post I have ever seen. Thanks to all that contributed.

 

[rbentnail]

Actually, as much as I hate to say it, I'm seriously considering leaving The Darkside. I really like the cost savings; the differences in bike handling were IMHO negligible; even the ease of putting the Fat Pig up on the center stand was a help. But note I said "were negligible". Since replacing my steering stem bearings I've nearly convinced myself that they are not anymore. The conditions have changed significantly. I've done a lot of reading about suspensions in general and ours in particular. I've done a lot of tweaking, particularly the front, a little at a time, that was noticeable and it all helped but I'm more and more convincing myself that The Darkside ain't for me. The bike just handles like pure ****. I'm pretty sure it's not the tire, it has about 11k miles on it and still looks near new. I've tweaked tire pressure, I've checked alignment, I've checked brakes, I've checked...I've checked...I've checked. I guess the part that irks me the most is the speed limitation. I get a rear end weave at about 110. I don't know the physics of it (and Fred- I really don't care about the physics of it!), I've always thought it was just our light weight bikes on a tire meant for something heavier. Whatever. I just want my bike back, the one I bought. Not this thing I have now that handles with all the finesse of a refrigerator.

 

[user 213]

So rbentnail - What's your front tire look like?

And what brand of steering head bearings did you use?

I've been hearing complaints about All Balls for a while now, did you use oem or something different? And have you checked them since you put them in to make sure they are still correctly torqued. I'll assume you have the manual or at least followed the two stage process for the torquing.

There's no shame in going back to a moto tire if the handling is not what you want. But by your own admission, going DS wasn't a huge change at the time, so I do have to wonder that going back to a rear moto tire might result in a bike that still handles like crap. It might not be the tire, it might just be the last thing you changed.

As for the speed limitation, how many race tracks are there in NC anyway?

Just teasing you.

Complaining you can't go what amounts to double the posted limit on many back roads w/o a little rear end wag wouldn't be a factor for most people. I do realize it is for some. I know one person that desperately needed a tire that would last 2500 miles safely at high speed, and couldn't find one, but the CT won't work for him either because of the high speed issues over 110-120.

 

[TravelinLite]

Just curious. Do you folks keep a database (or some other records) indicating the tire-only weight of moto tires for the FJR and also the same weight info for CTs that fit the FJR?

I search this thread and I think I seen tire weight mentioned once with respect to unsprung weight. I also seen where someone was speculating that the CT weighed 10 pounds more than the MT and I find that hard to believe. TIA.

 

[Chuck35]

What is this "wobble" of which you speak?

The only issues I ever had were well before the ct, caused by the factory touring windshield.

No issues now at race track speeds with rifle tall shield and a ct.

 

[user 213]

Just curious. Do you folks keep a database (or some other records) indicating the tire-only weight of moto tires for the FJR and also the same weight info for CTs that fit the FJR?
I search this thread and I think I seen tire weight mentioned once with respect to unsprung weight. I also seen where someone was speculating that the CT weighed 10 pounds more than the MT and I find that hard to believe. TIA.

The Darkside FAQ has many things, but not weights of specific tires. Tire manufacturers will have specs on their tires. Tire Rack shows weights of individual tires, though like all specs, there will be some variation. Most of the CTs we are using for the FJR weigh around 20 lbs. That is significantly more than a bike tire, and the extra unsprung weight will make a worn shock more obvious, even if it felt fine with the moto tire. On FJRs with custom shocks, it does not seem to require a re-build/re-valve any more often than with a moto tire.

The FAQ is located HERE

 

[garyahouse]

Ha...

Looks like I got it made. I seem to have lucked out and dodged another "bullet." I've got this strange habit of staying right around the speed limit, and all is well on the darkside for me

 

[rbentnail]

So rbentnail - What's your front tire look like?

New. Handled the same with worn out one. This was one of the first things I suspected.

And what brand of steering head bearings did you use?
I've been hearing complaints about All Balls for a while now, did you use oem or something different? And have you checked them since you put them in to make sure they are still correctly torqued. I'll assume you have the manual or at least followed the two stage process for the torquing.

I did use AllBalls. I've heard of some of the problems but IMHO they were a result of improper installation. And yes, I have the manual. And yes, I torqued the nut in two stages. And yes, I used the well-known increased torque values. And yes, I have re-torqued the nut.

There's no shame in going back to a moto tire if the handling is not what you want. But by your own admission, going DS wasn't a huge change at the time, so I do have to wonder that going back to a rear moto tire might result in a bike that still handles like crap. It might not be the tire, it might just be the last thing you changed.

Replacing the steering bearings made a HUGE difference in the handling characteristics in the bike. I don't know if you recall (or if I even posted it) but my bottom OEM bearing was busted. I had the front end clunk but it was the steering stem wobbling in the column. Balls literally hit the floor when I popped the stem loose. New bearings by any mfr or of any style style could do nothing but dramatically change the steering.

As for the speed limitation, how many race tracks are there in NC anyway?

Just teasing you.

Complaining you can't go what amounts to double the posted limit on many back roads w/o a little rear end wag wouldn't be a factor for most people. I do realize it is for some. I know one person that desperately needed a tire that would last 2500 miles safely at high speed, and couldn't find one, but the CT won't work for him either because of the high speed issues over 110-120.

My need for speed is most due to North Carolina drivers' need to a) plant themselves at 5-under in the left lane and 2) 37 uphill, 62 downhill. I don't mind going slower, in fact I rather enjoy it, but when I want to get around or away from someone I want to do it now. Right now. Most of the time there is very little sight distance in which to do the deed.

My riding season is winding down soon, another month and a half and I'll put the bike up for a few and do my "winter" maintenance. I do not enjoy riding in the damp, icy winters we tend to have. So I've plenty of time to work with it more and decide but I'm leaning toward the M/T. Trust me, I'm not at all ashamed to go back- I feel I've given it a fair shot and over the course of the 1.25 yrs/11k miles I've been a strong advocate and took a bunch of crap for/because of the car tire. But it's my bike & my choice. Ultimately the only one to please is me.

 

[rbentnail]

What is this "wobble" of which you speak?The only issues I ever had were well before the ct, caused by the factory touring windshield.

No issues now at race track speeds with rifle tall shield and a ct.

Who said anything about a wobble?

To be clear I define wobble as a front end, fast action shimmy and weave as a slower side to side motion. I had a wobble but that was due to defective steering bearings. I've had a high speed weave with the car tire from day one.

 

[TravelinLite]

It seems as if you FJR Darksiders are at quite a disadvantage in the tire selection department when it comes to tire weight. From what I could find the 180/55-17 Michelin PR2 weighs between 13-13.5 lbs.

I did some checking on 205/50-17 CTs and came up with the following:

General G-Max = 21lb.

Yokohama ADVAN A82A = 23lb.

BridgestonePotenza RE92A = 23lb.

DunlopSP Sport 7000 A/S = 23lb.

Falken ZIEX-912 = 23lb.

Toyo Proxes 4 Plus = 22lb.

When I look at tire availability for my gl1800 I get:

Motorcycle (MT) tires/OEM sizes

Avon Cobra weighs 17.6 lb

Bridgestone-G704 Radial weighs 19.6 lb.

Dunlop E3 Radial weighs 21.135 lb.

Car tires (CT) from mfg data

Run-Flat (RF)

Kumho 195/55-16 CT weighs 24.7 lb.

Pirelli 195/55-16 Eufori@ CT weighs 25 lb.

Michelin 195/55-16 Primacy Alpin PA3 ZP 24.5 lb.

Non Run-Flat (NRF)

Falken 195/55-16 CT weighs 20.4 lb.

Toyo Proxes T1R 195/55-16 weighs 18.3 lb.

Bridgestone EP100 195/55-16 weighs 21 lb.

As you can see there are three CTs that weigh less than the 21.1lb Dunlop E3 behemoth. Not shown above is also a 21lb. run-flat (Pirelli I think) that is now available.

Additionally, the heavy a$$ gl1800 has about 300 pounds of weight (more than the FJR) to help off-set additional unsprung weight.

Perhaps some will find this useful and others could care less and that is fine.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Oh ***.. Thanks for the totally useless info.

 

[user 213]

When I was looking for the first tires to try on the FJR, tire weight was not a factor that I was concerned with. Primarily because all of the CTs are heavier than the moto tires the FJR would use. More important for me were symmetrical tread designs, tread width, section width, rated rim range and profile.

While I can appreciate the benefits of minimizing unsprung weight, the realities of Darksiding mean you will be adding some. Different priorities, and 145 Hp, sort of negate the need to worry about tire weight.

 

[mgilles0]

I just went dark this week with a General G-MAX AS-03 Radial Tire - 205/50R17 purchase from Amazon.com and a Michelin PR4 on the front. how do I get assigned a number?

Just post a pic of your bike with the G-Max on it in this thread. www.tinypic.com works well if you don't have a place to host the pic. I will assign you a number and place your user name in the Darkside FAQ, (unless you request otherwise).

Eric

Okay Eric, here is my bike. Now with about 1,000 miles on the tires.

 

[user 213]

Welcome to the Darkside mgilles0, you have been added to the FAQ as Darksider #77. You will be notified of the next initiation event, make sure to bring cookies. I believe you are the first Gen III Darksider and have made a note of that in the FAQ. Did you encounter anything different than what you have read for previous Darksiders when adapting your FJR for Darkside use?

@TravelinLite - Your tire weight research has been added to the FAQ as well, so that others will have the actual weight info you posted. I did omit the GL1800 comparison, as I didn't feel that was relevant here since we don't use Run Flats and that is not desirable for the lighter FJR.

 

[SkooterG]

Warning!!!

Car Tire Retard on the Tail of the Dragon! Oh my!





And while looking for my Killboy photos I ran across this photo of a Suzuki cruiser Darksiding brother that I thought was pretty cool. Looks like a WIDE tire on that thing.

 

[bikerbuddha]

I have been reading this thread for weeks, since I bought my fjr. I can't believe I made it to the end. I have almost 2600 miles on the bike, and will be darksiding at the first available opportunity. I have a few questions though. As I get used to my bike I have noticed a vibration issue which is making my hands numb, this is obviously with the previous owners tires. What could be possible problems and or solutions to this issue. I tried better gloves to no avail.

 

[user 213]

I have been reading this thread for weeks, since I bought my fjr. I can't believe I made it to the end. I have almost 2600 miles on the bike, and will be darksiding at the first available opportunity. I have a few questions though. As I get used to my bike I have noticed a vibration issue which is making my hands numb, this is obviously with the previous owners tires. What could be possible problems and or solutions to this issue. I tried better gloves to no avail.

There are lots of things that can contribute to vibrations and hand numbness. You might try adjusting the angle of the bars, (it's adjustable with the oem bar risers on your Gen II '07 bike), to see if you can find a position that is more neutral for your hands/wrists. I found that a pretty minor change made a huge difference in hand numbness issues.

Other things that can help vibration issues are a Throttle Body Sync, foam grips or grip puppies and just checking the bike over for loose fasteners. Sometimes re-torquing the main engine mounts, (sometimes used for slider mounting), will also help with vibes. It's a great subject to search for in the main forum, and if nothing helps from what you find there, post a question in the general FJR threads. This thread is more specific to Darksiding questions and subjects.

Some people find that adding a throttle lock and or a Throttle Rocker help as they can relax their hand more and rest it with the throttle lock set. That is primarily for the right hand though.

Tires can certainly play a part. Especially if the front tire is cupped. But most of the vibes people have discussed in the past have been engine related, in terms of what they are feeling at the pegs and bars.