Going to the Dark Side

[RadioHowie]

Cut-down strap here....split in half lengthwise. No problem in 57,000 miles.

 

[beemerdons]

Cut-down strap here....split in half lengthwise. No problem in 57,000 miles.

From 'Zilla: ^^^And this is why; although ugly, Bob RadioHowie is super smart…sometimes.

 

[SkooterG]

What you find out when you actually try the darkside, is that you have better traction at extreme angles and conditions than a moto tire. Even at peg scraping angles, there is still a third of the width of the tire on the ground,

Not sure where you come up with that Eric, especially a third of the tire width still on the ground. Based on the following photos that has not been my experience.

Sidewall of my Exalto scuffed due to extreme lean angles. Kinda scary actually.





And from the Dragon this past September.







I was heavily loaded with a somewhat ratty front tire so wasn't pushing as hard as I normally might. Still scraped pegs a time or two. Not once did I feel anything squirm or move out back. Rock solid. Still, I don't think there is a huge contact patch out there.

And from years ago on my 2004 FJR and my first Exalto:

 

[user 213]

Well, Mr. G, I never have seen that kind of wear on my own tires, peg scrapping or not. I can't help but wonder if you mean when the bike is sliding down the road on it's side, as you've been known to do that on occasion, or wonder about your tire pressure.

As to the third of the tire, I count 5 rows of tread on your tire, and two are on the ground at those angles shown in the pics. We'll say, give or take, a third of the tire.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Yeah, THOSE are the photos that give me pause.

 

[SkooterG]

Well, Mr. G, I never have seen that kind of wear on my own tires, peg scrapping or not. I can't help but wonder if you mean when the bike is sliding down the road on it's side, as you've been known to do that on occasion, or wonder about your tire pressure.

As to the third of the tire, I count 5 rows of tread on your tire, and two are on the ground at those angles shown in the pics. We'll say, give or take, a third of the tire.

Yes, there are 5 rows of tread. But the outer two are wider. And if you look at the first dragon photo I posted above only one - the outside row of tread is in contact with the pavement. But it looks like the tire is deforming somewhat putting some of the sidewall in contact too.

I run higher pressure than most around here - 32 to 34 psi. I find that reduces the higher initial steering input required for the car tire.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Not getting into the right or wrong argument, just making an observation about contact patch size.

While following our friend Patriot with his car tire I could not understand how the CT was gripping as well as it did with what I perceived as such a little contact patch. Being curious I kept watching that car tire and kept changing my position relative to his bike in an effort to understand.

The contact patch is relatively narrow side to side but is extremely long front to back. You would need to get a broadside pic of the bike leaned over to really get this perspective. As the bike leans further over the tire "deforms" or "flattens" not so much side to side but more front to back. If any of you get a chance to look at this you will be surprised by how much of the tire is actually touching the pavement during hard corners. I also noticed that the CT seemed to increase cornering clearance due to its width and flat profile. It actually increases available lean angle.

While I don't want or need a CT on my bike I will say to the naysayers, "Following a Darksider can be a humbling experience." Keeping an open mind can help you learn things.

 

[garyahouse]

Well put, Fish. Then again, most everything you say seems to carry that same distinction.

The CT does indeed have a longer contact patch when cornering than one might expect. Unlike a MT, it does indeed elongate significantly while cornering. Years ago, a darksider ran over one of those transparent plates used to show contact patch for any tire rolling over it. One of the pictures showed the exact shape and size of the contact patch as that motorcycle with a CT mounted was banked over as it went across the glass plate. Wish I would have copied that website picture as I've not been able to find it since. Oh well.

Anyway, below is another picture I found that gives a pretty good rendition of the difference between a MT and a CT contact patch while cornering. Notice the camber angle provided at the bottom. Guess you can ignore the center row as we don't much use bias ply tires any more. The CT pic in at the very bottom right hand corner? ...that might just be Skooter's tire in post #3842 above

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Lawrence]

Thanks for the replies. I went with the cutout method on the tension bar and commuted the last 2 days on it. I had test ridden a CT shod FJR a few years back after a tech day at Neil's.

As for wheel removal and installation, I put 2 pieces of scrap plywood (maybe 1.5" tall combined) under the centerstand, and found I had no issue mounting the wheel with CT back in (I had for some reason thought I might need a 2"x4"). With this approach, I should be able to swap to my PR2 shod rear wheel in about 20 leisurely minutes (the joy of having 2 wheel sets). So I'm all set for weekday commuting, hoping for fewer punctures (and no shop avoidance of patching CT if required). Riding 10-12K a year in commuting alone (year-round), this CT should save me a decent sum.

 

I surprised myself with how much I missed riding (having parked the FJR for last 7 months). And it is so nice to be back to not thinking about commute time of day. And a gorgeous sunset over the Pacific last night during my commute home. couldn't be better.....

 

For those wondering,

- I've now had 4 punctures in 3 years, 2 of those in brand new tires; with no issues in prior 150K of riding. So the idea of a long life commute tire, easy/quick swap to motorcycle tire when appropriate/desired, wasn't a hard sell.

- RevMoto in Oceanside didn't blink an eye at mount/balance the GMAX tire (just a snide comment wondering if I'd need a kickstand from now on). They also patched my PR2 with only a few hundred miles on it ($50 out the door for removal, patch, remount/balance).

 

Awaiting my Darkside #

 

[RadioHowie]

Awaiting my Darkside #

You MUST provide a picture of YOUR bike with the CT mounted in order to get a Darkside #.

OCFJR's rules.

 

[user 213]

Awaiting my Darkside #

You MUST provide a picture of YOUR bike with the CT mounted in order to get a Darkside #.

OCFJR's rules.

He has PM'd and I responded with options. I'll do the usual welcome post when I get the pic or it's posted here.

 

[user 213]

Welcome to the Darkside Lawrence, you have been added to the FAQ as Darksider #79 and one of your pictures has been added to the FAQ as well, showing a nice shot of the modified oem brake tension arm.

You will be invited to the next initiation event as soon as we bail straiten out the participants from the last one and the girls from the Nevada House of Hoes sober up so we can compare calendars and find a suitable date/location. Next time we'll have to skip the 3am skinny dipping in the pool. (Hey, I thought it was a pool at 3am, how was I supposed to know golf courses had security cameras?)

 

[Pterodactyl]

Ordered a General GMAX thru Amazon today. $109 delivered; due 3 Feb. Plenty of time to fabricate a brake arm. Hope to have it mounted soon there after.

 

[odot]

https://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/odot_photos/IMG_0165_zps2ce61297.jpg

Will this one work?

 

[odot]

https://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/odot_photos/IMG_0167_zps783a1135.jpg

Here's another one. This is how a dirt worshipper farms metal objects.

 

[user 213]

https://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/odot_photos/IMG_0165_zps2ce61297.jpg
Will this one work?

That will work. No one claims to be a darksider that isn't doing the deed. Welcome to the Darkside odot, it took you long enough! You have been added to the FAQ as #80. You will be notified when the next initiation ceremony is held. The NHOH is in dispute with the graduates of the Jenny McCarthy School of Chrome Removal, (JMSCR), over territory, so it may be a while.

 

[wheatonFJR]

oops. Wrong Forum.

Kinda scary in here.

How come everybody is wearing a hooded cloak?

 

[Fred W]

Awaiting my Darkside #

You MUST provide a picture of YOUR bike with the CT mounted in order to get a Darkside #.

OCFJR's rules.

Wait. I did that. But no number.

I think that you missed a step. You must accept it as a good idea.

PS - I don't really want a number, so I'm OK with the above.

Carry on...

 

[user 213]

oops. Wrong Forum.
Kinda scary in here.

How come everybody is wearing a hooded cloak?

ScooterG, hand him the Cat's blood...

Funny thing though, we're about as out of the closet as you can get. Nearly every stop generates conversation from some bystander. No one is hiding behind hoods here.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Well, I made the leap into the endless abyss that is the Darkside. I decided to give it a try since I've been intrigued by the idea for some time, it is inexpensive and easy to try, I will save many dollars if I stick with it and there does not seem to be any substantial evidence that there is any danger in trying it.

First I fabricated the brake arm using the instructions provided in the FAQ thread; I coated it in pickup truck bed liner....

Before mounting the tire using my NoMar tire changer, I heated it for 40 minutes using a tire warmer. This warmer is designed for a motorcycle tire, but it still did a good job of getting the tire warm and easy to work with. It went on the rim easier than many motorcycle tires I've dealt with.

The tire took 1/4 ounce of weight to balance; less weight than most motorcycle tires. And here it is with a General GMAX mounted (unfortunately no whitewalls were available):

Starting out at 30 PSI and will adjust from there if needed. The weather is looking good here later in the week, so I hope to get in a test ride soon.