Grindy Noises

[faster675]

Done lots of searches .. haven't found the same problem described.

2005 FJR has 28K "HARD" miles on it, "2nd gear forks" are "tweaked" (slips in 2nd) - been that way for over 8K miles.

(has not gotten worse)

Now I am having what appears to be lots of "gear noise" from down by my feet.

Noise is there all the time when bike is moving in gear (especially accel or decel) ... not there at all when in neutral (at any speed)

Up on stand, it seems to have A LOT of "driveline slop" ... I found the post on measuring driveline slop .. I will check it now.

Any other ideas ?

I have never done any servicing "ahead of the driveshaft" (is there anything you can do ?)

... from the "front of the driveshaft back" everything has been checked or serviced every time I change a tire (every 3k miles or less)

 

[RadioHowie]

:blink: :dribble:

Nothing good can come from noises out of the bottom/back side of your FJR.

Good Luck!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Well, you sure have narrowed it down to the transmission.

Sorry, but there's only one way to learn more, and that way is expensive.

"Mr. Burleigh to the white phone please."

 

[wfooshee]

Burleigh's ended up being just clutch.

There is a good bit of driveline slop, I'm not sure that should be a worry. Well, the rear wheel shouldn't do a full turn or anything like that . . . .

I would drain the oil, look for shiny or hard stuff in the oil that comes out, or stuff trapped in the filter. That would be a Really Bad Sign.

No shiny hard bits? Finish the oil change and ride, see if it's not different. Noise gone, then all is well (probably.)

Still weird noise, have somebody else check it out.

 

[FJRay]

I would suspect the bearings in the bevel gear assy. There have been some failures in that area. :angry2:

 

[FJR Flyer]

Good time to get an oil sample analyzed.

 

[faster675]

I would suspect the bearings in the bevel gear assy. There have been some failures in that area. :angry2:

Not 100% sure .... is the bevel gear you refer to inside the differential (pumpkin) ?

... that's not where the noise is coming from

... the noise is coming from the transmission area ... verified with stethascope, motor off, in gear, clutch lever pulled in, rotating wheel

Gotta get 2nd gear fixed anyway .... anybody know a good, reputable mechanic in L.A. that has demonstrated competence in complex repairs ?

 

[RadioHowie]

I would suspect the bearings in the bevel gear assy. There have been some failures in that area. :angry2:

Not 100% sure .... is the bevel gear you refer to inside the differential (pumpkin) ?

... that's not where the noise is coming from

... the noise is coming from the transmission area ... verified with stethascope, motor off, in gear, clutch lever pulled in, rotating wheel

Gotta get 2nd gear fixed anyway .... anybody know a good, reputable mechanic in L.A. that has demonstrated competence in complex repairs ?

FJRay (I believe) is referring to bearings #s 10, 18 and/or 20 in the Middle Drive Gear assembly.

Detailed HERE

 

[faster675]

Cool .... Thanks Howie

That about seals it then .... time to get the tranny rebuilt .....

 

[PhilJet09]

Ouch. Let us know how it goes and good luck.

 

[faster675]

Well .. she's in the shop, getting lots of work done on the tranny

They are replacing "several gears" and three shift forks ($1500 in parts)

... not sure if any of that could have been causing the "grindy-ness" I experienced recently.

Middle Drive Gear (bevel gear) bearings are in "like new" shape and do not need to be replaced.

Sure hope the grindy noises go away ...

And Aside ... sort of .... apparently, full throttle clutchless upshifts are definately a no-no on FJRs ?

... I used to never do it, then I got a modern sportsbike and was told far too many times how it is ok on ALL bikes ("by design of the trans")

... and it is on my 675 and my 1988 Honda Hawk ... been doing it for over 20K miles on both bikes, NEVER had any issues.

... and friends who race Ducs and sportbikes of all kinds do it all the time ...

 

[user 213]

How cute! :dribble: Your toys are not the FJR. Those bikes have less than half the horsepower of the FJR and way less torque. Yes, some modern sport bikes with equal or higher power will upshift full throttle w/o harm. They have been designed to do that. The BMW R1000R comes to mind. The FJR is not designed for it, it's a heavy touring bike with the power to mimic a Sport bike. Sorry you had to learn an expensive lesson.

 

[Crash Cash]

I had an '85 RZ-350 develop a roughness in the side of the 3-4 gear pair, so it would file down the shift fork until you could shave with it. It was because I was in neutral (by mistake) revved the motor, then dropped it into first instead of second. BLAM!

Of course on an RZ, you can just flip the motor upside down and put it in your lap. Which is good because I replaced 2 shift forks before realizing it shouldn't eat shift forks.

Clutchless upshifts are sort of ok *IF* you kill the throttle or ignition for the instant you click it up. That's how the race bikes do it. You don't do that, and you will eventually lunch a gear or a shift fork. On a Honda Hawk, the transmission is beefy and the engine is wimpy, so you can get away with it for a lot longer.

 

[wfooshee]

Yes, you must coordinate a brief breathe of the throttle with the clutchless shift. Not close the throttle, but breathe it back just a bit, so that during the instant the tranny passes through neutral during the shift (and it does, despite being sequential - if it didn't, the first shift would destroy it) the input shaft doesn't suddenly spin up way beyond the next gear's spin speed.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Yes, you must coordinate a brief breathe of the throttle with the clutchless shift. Not close the throttle, but breathe it back just a bit, so that during the instant the tranny passes through neutral during the shift (and it does, despite being sequential - if it didn't, the first shift would destroy it) the input shaft doesn't suddenly spin up way beyond the next gear's spin speed.

....or....you can use that lever on the left handlebars placed there conveniently for precisely this purpose.

Up to you.

 

[Tree Doc]

Yes, you must coordinate a brief breathe of the throttle with the clutchless shift. Not close the throttle, but breathe it back just a bit, so that during the instant the tranny passes through neutral during the shift (and it does, despite being sequential - if it didn't, the first shift would destroy it) the input shaft doesn't suddenly spin up way beyond the next gear's spin speed.

....or....you can use that lever on the left handlebars placed there conveniently for precisely this purpose.

Up to you.

Always making **** so complicated! :lol2:

 

[blkredlinedrvr]

I usually use the clutch but will do clutchless upshifts when riding in a spirited manner. I sure don't do "full throttle" clutchless up shifts. I close the throttle for a split second and at the same time shift up a gear then back on the throttle.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Well .. she's in the shop, getting lots of work done on the trannyThey are replacing "several gears" and three shift forks ($1500 in parts)

.... apparently, full throttle clutchless upshifts are definately a no-no on FJRs ?

... I used to never do it, then I got a modern sportsbike and was told far too many times how it is ok on ALL bikes ("by design of the trans")

... and it is on my 675 and my 1988 Honda Hawk ... been doing it for over 20K miles on both bikes, NEVER had any issues.

... and friends who race Ducs and sportbikes of all kinds do it all the time ...

The constant mesh gearbox design used in most motorcycles can (usually) tolerate full throttle clutchless upshifts. But, there are limits/differences in g/boxes, power-otputs, etc.

It ain't all the same all-over... :blink:

How cute! Yes, some modern sport bikes ...will upshift full throttle w/o harm. They have been designed to do that. The BMW R1000R comes to mind.

The FJR is not designed for it...

More sad news for the FJR (on top of all its other problems) -- it's got a weak gearbox...!

And more promo for BMW -- on the FJR (& BMW) Forum...

...you must coordinate a brief breathe of the throttle with the clutchless shift. Not close the throttle, but breathe it back just a bit, so that during the instant the tranny passes through neutral during the shift (and it does, despite being sequential - if it didn't, the first shift would destroy it) the input shaft doesn't suddenly spin up way beyond the next gear's spin speed.

Not quite...: All the gears on one shaft are always meshed with their corresponding gears on the other shaft. 'Neutral' is not involved. A shift fork unhooks a gear from a shaft while, simultaneously, a shift fork hooks-up another gear (gear-set) to a shaft.

If the speeds are greatly different?; the spring loaded drive-cam in the middle gear assy. will absorb some of the power/speed difference -- or the clutch -- or the rear wheel (spin) -- or the front wheel will levitate -- or the engine's crankshaft will slow-down (or speed-up) -- (or, the transmission may break...).

A brief pause in the power transmission (probably?) won't hurt -- but it ain't necessary (for most...).

 

[phroenips]

if you really want "clutchless" upshifts, you could always get an AE