Handgun on a bike

[Steel]

First, move to a state that recognizes the 2nd.

You ride an AE. Second problem solved... no clutching required. Learn to shoot left handed. May require a smaller caliber, i.e. 9mm to deal with recoil. Strong side left, or left handed small of the back holster with a thumb break retention strap.

 

[vectervp1]

Ok, I was going to leave it alone at you need to look into what you need to do to carry legally, but with some comments here I just can't leave it alone.

First off, if you honestly believe that you can shoot effectively while riding your bike, you have watched waaay too many movies my friend. Unless you're in a Hollywood production, or are a very skilled and trained sharpshooter, you'll be lucky if the bullets go in the general direction of the person you are shooting at. Period, end of story.

Second, I honestly feel that most people have a huge misunderstanding of what it means to carry a weapon. I highly suggest that if you are even considering carrying one for self defense, you need to look into training classes. Find a good class that will teach you not only how to handle a weapon, but about the legal aspects of what it means to carry and to kill someone. Find out what can and will happen to you and your family if you are ever in that situation. I had a very good CCW instructor who spent a good part of the class going over what will happen and what you need to understand. Even if you are in the right, it will disrupt your life for a very long time.

 

[old&slow]

There's a lot of states out there ,,,like the "Peoples Socialist State of Kalifornia ,,, PSS of Mass.,, etc..

that it's probably illegal to have a air soft gun or a sling shot ,, let alone a real CCW....

Ohio has a reciprocity agreement with 15 or 18 states now ( I think ) ,,,,Florida has agreement with 25 states..

( so I figure "IF" I carry,, I'm legal in half the states I visit and illegal in the other half,, so what should one do ??)

But IF you carry,,, that is something you want to check out VERY carefully ,,, And Know what you are willing to risk ,,,

You might find yourself bent over the hood of a POlice car, just for having it , if you run into one that is not very understanding...

(There's a really funny story about a friend that spent a half an hour bent over the trunk of his Cobra when he informed

the cop that pulled him over that he was carrying a firearm ,,, guess the cop about had kittens,,)

If you ever use it !!!!???? ,,, really bad things are going to happen ,,,Even if you are in the right..

Personally I usually carry a can of pepper spray in my tank bag or MC jacket pocket... I figure that Should be good

for most social occasion ,,,,

As far as any serious social occasion ,,,,,,,, it's not concealed if everybody knows about it....

Just remember ,,There's A LOT of responsibility AND liability if you do carry ....

 

[exskibum]

Find a good class that will teach you not only how to handle a weapon, but about the legal aspects of what it means to carry and to kill someone. Find out what can and will happen to you and your family if you are ever in that situation. I had a very good CCW instructor who spent a good part of the class going over what will happen and what you need to understand. Even if you are in the right, it will disrupt your life for a very long time.

AMEN!!!!

I used to do research in a part of a law library where the title of a book on an adjacent shelf was "The Process is the Punishment", referring to the criminal justice system.

Even IF you have a good self defense claim, there is still a very good chance that you will be charged and have to prove that defense at trial. THAT is extremely expensive, and defense attorneys typically won't take an unsecured promissory note. So, there goes your house (or your parents'), just to pay for attorney fees necessary to prove you were in the right. During that defense, pretty much everything else in your life becomes secondary to that, and you're consumed with participating in that defense. Your relationships suffer, your work suffers (or you lose your job), your mental state suffers. And all that is assuming you have a righteous case and are acquitted.

If you are convicted, you have costs and attorneys fees for the appeal (usually just to get back to a second trial where you get to pay your attorney all over again for another trial). Then there's jail or worse, loss of income, loss of benefits for you and your family and loss of a big chunk of your life, not to mention the impact of the incident and the judicial proceedings on your mental and emotional health. As a felon, you are done with guns, even just for plinking, and in some cases even misdemeanor gun offenses (like concealed carry w/o CCW permit in Calif) can limit or curtail your gun rights. (BTW, what a lot of people fail to consider is that a knife is also a deadly weapon, and if you use it on someone, nearly all the same issues apply, including loss of rights to have guns.)

On top of all that, you'll likely be sued civilly for wrongful death or serious injury by the guy you shot or his heirs to get at every last dollar you have. It's not unusual for a pissed off family to pursue you through that process even if you don't have any money to satisfy a judgment -- just so they can pursue you for any dime you earn for the rest of your life out of a sense of retribution. All those consequences mentioned above all over again (except for jail), but the standard of proof civilly is only "a preponderance of evidence" as opposed to the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt", and the plaintiffs don't typically need the unanimous jury verdict a prosecutor does for a conviction in his criminal case.

So, in absolute agreement with vectorvp's post, UNLESS you are in a situation where it is obviously clear cut to almost anyone that you had NO alternative but shoot, shooting someone will effectively mean that your life is over as you knew it -- you will be stuck in legal hell and financially broken by it -- with terrible effect on your family too. And that's IF you don't also go to prison.

Best to stay the hell out of the legal system if at all possible, and that advice should be amplified about 100X when it comes to the criminal system. vectorvp's advice is stellar -- I've wondered if I would have reacted differently in the thug situation I posted about above (esp. at 23) if I'd had the .357 with me. Glad I never found out, because if you carry, you better have that boosted ego reflex completely under control -- can't say I did back then, and especially not in that humiliating victim setting those two assholes imposed on us.

 

[FJR13k]

Find a good class that will teach you not only how to handle a weapon, but about the legal aspects of what it means to carry and to kill someone. Find out what can and will happen to you and your family if you are ever in that situation. I had a very good CCW instructor who spent a good part of the class going over what will happen and what you need to understand. Even if you are in the right, it will disrupt your life for a very long time.

AMEN!!!!

I used to do research in a part of a law library where the title of a book on an adjacent shelf was "The Process is the Punishment", referring to the criminal justice system.

Even IF you have a good self defense claim, there is still a very good chance that you will be charged and have to prove that defense at trial. THAT is extremely expensive, and defense attorneys typically won't take an unsecured promissory note. So, there goes your house (or your parents'), just to pay for attorney fees necessary to prove you were in the right. During that defense, pretty much everything else in your life becomes secondary to that, and you're consumed with participating in that defense. Your relationships suffer, your work suffers (or you lose your job), your mental state suffers. And all that is assuming you have a righteous case and are acquitted.

If you are convicted, you have costs and attorneys fees for the appeal (usually just to get back to a second trial where you get to pay your attorney all over again for another trial). Then there's jail or worse, loss of income, loss of benefits for you and your family and loss of a big chunk of your life, not to mention the impact of the incident and the judicial proceedings on your mental and emotional health.

On top of all that, you'll likely be sued civilly for wrongful death or serious injury by the guy you shot or his heirs to get at every last dollar you have. It's not unusual for a pissed off family to pursue you through that process even if you don't have any money to satisfy a judgment -- just so they can pursue you for any dime you earn for the rest of your life out of a sense of retribution. All those consequences mentioned above all over again (except for jail), but the standard of proof civilly is only "a preponderance of evidence" as opposed to the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt", and the plaintiffs don't typically need the unanimous jury verdict a prosecutor does for a conviction in his criminal case.

So, in absolute agreement with vectorvp's post, UNLESS you are in a situation where it is obviously clear cut to almost anyone that you had NO alternative but shoot, shooting someone will effectively mean that your life is over as you knew it -- you will be stuck in legal hell and financially broken by it -- with terrible effect on your family too. And that's IF you don't also go to prison.

Best to stay the hell out of the legal system if at all possible, and that advice should be amplified about 100X when it comes to the criminal system. vectorvp's advice is stellar -- I've wondered if I would have reacted differently in the thug situation I posted about above (esp. at 23) if I'd had the .357 with me. Glad I never found out, because if you carry, you better have that boosted ego reflex completely under control -- can't say I did back then, and especially not in that humiliating victim setting those two assholes imposed on us.

I agree with all of this...your life would pretty much suck. On the other hand if you were defending yourself you would still be alive. Carrying a handgun might be your right but be prepared for the consequences. Training - mentally, physically, and emotionally. Nobody's talked about the emotional rollercoaster involved with shooting or killing someone. Except for true sociopaths shooting someone, even when fully justified, is not pleasant. Prepare yourself beforehand because it's a hell of a ride.

You cant take the bullet back after you pull the trigger. Make damn sure you deliver your bullets when and where they have been earned. Not to someone who deserves your very best (deserving isnt good enough). Save your bullets for someone who has earned them by giving you no other choice.

 

[UHOH]

I've never carried my legally registered handgun on my bike (gun in one bag ammo in the other), I'm leaning on the side of bringing it with me since I am traveling alone on my road trip and you never know what may come your way...

relax, if you carry a gun, you are presented w/ all the problems of managing a deadly weapon; never leaving it, etc.

What are you going to do when you meet someone and want a beer after the day's ride; carry it into a bar?

Instead on your ride, smile and seek to meet people and you'll experience the people in the USA. We live in a good society.

Don't mean to be condescending. I've traveled alone, just do it. $.02

 

[SockMonkey]

For a whole host of reasons - not the least of which is the excellent advice offered by exskibum, forget about carrying a handgun on your bike. If you feel you must carry a weapon, consider the non-lethal variety such as a Taser C2. You won't have to worry about concealed carry laws and you certainly won't have to worry about the aftermath of a lethal shooting. $349.00 for a C2 w/ laser; $299.00 w/o.

 

[Jeff Q]

For a whole host of reasons - not the least of which is the excellent advice offered by exskibum, forget about carrying a handgun on your bike. If you feel you must carry a weapon, consider the non-lethal variety such as a Taser C2. You won't have to worry about concealed carry laws and you certainly won't have to worry about the aftermath of a lethal shooting. $349.00 for a C2 w/ laser; $299.00 w/o.

I would check the laws on that because the taser does require the same permit in some places. MS does.

 

[fjrob1300]

Ah... ya ... but...nevermind.

 

[L2M]

A lot of sound advice has already been given, but as a CPL holder myself, I'll chip in. If your primary concern is with camping and protection from four legged predators, a handgun (barring a .44 mag, SW .50, or other large caliber revolver) is probably not going to do much except destroy your hearing and piss the animal off. Be alert and don't camp in bear and cougar areas, don't keep food in the tent, and you'll be fine.

If your concern is about the two legged predators, situational awareness still applies. If you feel uneasy about an area, don't stay there. If someplace looks shady, don't stop there. Also note that the FJR is very good at running away from trouble. A speeding ticket is preferable to ending up the victim of road rage. If someone is behaving threateningly, DON'T stop to find out why. It's just uncommon, common sense. That said, there is always that theoretical "worst case scenario" where you don't have an option and you couldn't avoid it. For that situation:

- Be proficient. Otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others.

- Be prepared to use the weapon. A gun intended to be used only as a threat is a poor choice. The Tacoma mall shooter several years back was confronted by a CPL holder who wasn't willing to pull the trigger. Guy only ended up shot for his trouble.

- Be prepared for the consequences. Unless you're traveling in Texas (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek) you had better be prepared to pay the price (see below).

One important note I have not seen yet: Defense of property with lethal force is not justifiable in most states. If someone is stealing your bike, call the police and wait. Shooting them will land you in jail on manslaughter charges if not murder charges.

I know of one person who did have to exercise self-defense. The two assailants were felons with a long rap sheet (per the responding officers) and he and his wife were in unavoidable, life threatening, danger. Three shots and two dead bad guns later, the officers let him go. There was no grand jury and no criminal charges filed. Net cost: $30k in lawyers fees on civil suites, broken marriage, lost job. Even in the most blatant self-defense, there remains the drama and pain that accompany such an act. Many in the PNW area will recognize this story: https://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...shooting07.html (Note: I could not find anything indicating whether the victim in this case was later charged, but there were several angry letters to the editor blaming him for the death)

 

[YooperDick]

I don't know the provisions of other states but in Michigan a CCW holder must present his permit along with personal identification if ever stopped by a police officer. This is a requirement if carrying at the time or not. Failure to do so can lead to revocation of the CCW. Personally, I like the idea. Better to let the LEO up front so he has an opportunity to assess the situation and determine any risk to his safety. Actually, I was stopped once in Wisconsin for 10 over. When I showed the LEO my drivers license and CCW he asked if I knew Wisconsin did not have reciprocity for CCW's. I told him I did. He then asked if was was carrying at the time and I told him I wasn't. After checking for any outstanding warrants he returned my license and actually thanked me for letting him know about the CCW. No ticket. :yahoo:

 

[FJRBluesman]

Great advice; however, go to the Cali Dept of Justice website and READ the long sermon on the laws. The general NRA websites cover basics at a high level, not down and dirty details. It's YOUR responsibility to know the law, as confusing as it is.

Next do this for each state you want to visit with said friend. Have fun.

 

[moto]

Don't know the answer -- but pull that hand gun, shoot, and just scratch a bystander. And your looking at a Grand Jury. And after all, unless your Wild Bill H, steady in high stress, and realize that the chances of you hitting a non moving target (square) at anything over ten feet is slim -- your better off with a knife or as someone said pepper spray. But should you choose to take one. Have piece of mind and take a revolver (not as sexy as an auto) but at least it won't jamb.

 

[DailyCommuter]

There was a book I bought a while back, and lent to a friend who never returned it to me. The name of the book was "armed response" and it outlined several things you can and should do if you are a ccw permit holder. It's a good read and deals alot with the litigation end of things regarding the use of a weapon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=red...15?a=0936783451

 

[midlifeuturn]

(quote from above)"First off, if you honestly believe that you can shoot effectively while riding your bike, you have watched waaay too many movies my friend. Unless you're in a Hollywood production, or are a very skilled and trained sharpshooter, you'll be lucky if the bullets go in the general direction of the person you are shooting at. Period, end of story."

In defense of the thread starter I don't think his original post said he was going to shoot from his bike, just carry a gun on it.

I often carry a .380 in my coat pocket and if for some reason I don't want it there I put it in the "glove box" as my Ruger LCP and pocket holster fits great.

 

[pmspaul]

relax, if you carry a gun, you are presented w/ all the problems of managing a deadly weapon; never leaving it, etc.What are you going to do when you meet someone and want a beer after the day's ride; carry it into a bar?

Instead on your ride, smile and seek to meet people and you'll experience the people in the USA. We live in a good society.

I am going to regret posting this, and may very well delete it after typing it or even posting it, but here goes.

So, because I legally keep a firearm on my person, on my bike or in my car, I will not be smiling and meeting new people or experiencing the people in the USA? Moreover I am unable to relax because I have to "manage" a deadly weapon? Yes, we live in a good society where bad people do bad stuff every day. I believe in god and I pray for my family's safety and believe HE watches over us. Does that mean I don't buckle up when I drive, put on a helmet when I ride, buy fire extinguishers for the house? I could go on, but reasonable people see my point.

I mean no offense to you personally UHOH, I've seen this mindset many times from many people. I was just as surprised to hear from some people I know who think this way as they would've been to find out I had a firearm with me or in my vehicle when they told me this.

And for those of you promoting non-lethal means of personal defense, know that there are plenty of laws governing the carry and possession of sprays and tasers throughout the USA. And know just as well that these weapons do not free you from legal recourse should you be forced to use them. Just check to see how many police departments all over the country are being sued for taser usage.

A firearm is a last resort when there is no escape, and CCW permit holders know about our duty to retreat. The responsibility of carrying a firearm is not for everyone. Some of us have taken good classes, fired thousands of rounds and honed skills at the range and in sport shooting competitions. But, that's not why the OP posted in the first place. He posted to find out how to comply with the laws because taking his firearm gives him peace of mind. Little did he realize the can of worms he was opening. The other CCW permit holders out there know how big a task making sure you comply with the laws is, it's a task we accept for a choice we make.

I respect the rights and opinions of those who choose not to carry and/or own firearms and normally would not engage in this discussion at all with such people. But whether you agree with those of us that do carry or not, you are safer because of the firearms that other people might be carrying. You see the bad guys don't know for sure whether you've got a gun, or I do. So maybe they'll decide neither one of us looks like a good victim today.

[/rant off]

 

[canyonman]

I think I would still rather be tried by 10 than carried by 8.

:angry: What have we become? don't answer that here.

 

[200cs]

This may have already been covered but I will chance it.

Get a permit in another state. It will be worth the hassle and most all states will recognize the CHL from each other, you can then carry legally on the road. You might even be able to carry in your own state with another states permit, but I am not sure of that. Research your options and go from there.

I carry a mid size Glock 40 caliber in my tank bag with my wallet, cell phone etc. I just take the bag with me when I leave the bike. Sometimes I carry a Colt Commander 45 also. I Never carry anything lower than a 40. Friend of mine from the Dallas Police Dept. works as an investigator and as he says it: "9mm and lower, go to the hospital and ask the victim what happened... 40 and up, forget it. They go to the morgue"

As far as using it, I hope I never have to but I have a wife and three kids that depend on me to be there for them. If I can find another way out then that is always my first choice. I really do not want to kill anyone over something stupid but I will do what I have to even if it means preventing violence from happening to someone else. You have to work all this out yourself and go from there.

 

[UHOH]

I am going to regret posting this, and may very well delete it after typing it or even posting it, but here goes. ...

I mean no offense to you personally UHOH,

...

The other CCW permit holders out there know how big a task making sure you comply with the laws is, it's a task we accept for a choice we make.

Hey, no offense personally taken.

Remember,

* the OP doesn't have a concealed weapons permit,

* he's going on an out-of-state recreational ride. So OP's goal is to have a good time.

Well, 100% my recreational riding is going to rural mtn areas with scenery and curves and small towns,

and 100% is that I've encountered zero crime during these rides. Only met helpful, friendly people.

I bet his experience will be the same.

Having never encountered crime on these rides, step back and look at the complexity and risk of the responses here. Why would you wish this on someone?

Do you know anybody who's encountered deadly force directed against them while on a M/C tour? That's an honest question; I've never even heard of it happening.

In the risk/reward ratio calculation you're saying there's a great perceived reward to being armed in event of receiving deadly force threat. OK, agreed.

I'm saying there's zero perceived chance (risk) of receiving deadly force threat while on M/C tour. I mean, it just doesn't happen (correct me if I'm wrong).

And the guy doesn't have a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon even in his home state.

And some here would have him take his weapon into unfamiliar jurisdictions ... What's the risk/reward ratio for him in doing that?

And I mean no offense to you personally, pmspaul. When we meet, I'll buy you a beer.

 

[old&slow]

relax, if you carry a gun, you are presented w/ all the problems of managing a deadly weapon; never leaving it, etc.What are you going to do when you meet someone and want a beer after the day's ride; carry it into a bar?

Instead on your ride, smile and seek to meet people and you'll experience the people in the USA. We live in a good society.

I am going to regret posting this, and may very well delete it after typing it or even posting it, but here goes.

So, because I legally keep a firearm on my person, on my bike or in my car, I will not be smiling and meeting new people or experiencing the people in the USA? Moreover I am unable to relax because I have to "manage" a deadly weapon? Yes, we live in a good society where bad people do bad stuff every day. I believe in god and I pray for my family's safety and believe HE watches over us. Does that mean I don't buckle up when I drive, put on a helmet when I ride, buy fire extinguishers for the house? I could go on, but reasonable people see my point.

I mean no offense to you personally UHOH, I've seen this mindset many times from many people. I was just as surprised to hear from some people I know who think this way as they would've been to find out I had a firearm with me or in my vehicle when they told me this.

And for those of you promoting non-lethal means of personal defense, know that there are plenty of laws governing the carry and possession of sprays and tasers throughout the USA. And know just as well that these weapons do not free you from legal recourse should you be forced to use them. Just check to see how many police departments all over the country are being sued for taser usage.

A firearm is a last resort when there is no escape, and CCW permit holders know about our duty to retreat. The responsibility of carrying a firearm is not for everyone. Some of us have taken good classes, fired thousands of rounds and honed skills at the range and in sport shooting competitions. But, that's not why the OP posted in the first place. He posted to find out how to comply with the laws because taking his firearm gives him peace of mind. Little did he realize the can of worms he was opening. The other CCW permit holders out there know how big a task making sure you comply with the laws is, it's a task we accept for a choice we make.

I respect the rights and opinions of those who choose not to carry and/or own firearms and normally would not engage in this discussion at all with such people. But whether you agree with those of us that do carry or not, you are safer because of the firearms that other people might be carrying. You see the bad guys don't know for sure whether you've got a gun, or I do. So maybe they'll decide neither one of us looks like a good victim today.

[/rant off]

PMS ,, :clapping: :clapping: Very Well Said .... :clapping: :clapping:

I've never had a flat tire on my bike ,, but I carry a Fix a Flat kit with me ..... I figure it's better to Have it and Not need it,,,

than to Need it and not Have it...

And the comment made about NOT being able to hit a target at over 10 feet.. You're right ,, IF you can't ,,,you shouldn't have firearm...

Of course I've seen lots of people that couldn't do this,,, a lot of them cops..

just call me,,,,, " WILD BILL H. old &slow Dan" :yahoo: :clapping: :yahoo:

We all should be like the great state of Texas ,,,,,, It's illegal NOT to carry a firearm in Texas ,,, isn't it....??????? :yahoo: :yahoo: