Handgun on a bike

[old&slow]

I am going to regret posting this, and may very well delete it after typing it or even posting it, but here goes. ...

I mean no offense to you personally UHOH,

...

The other CCW permit holders out there know how big a task making sure you comply with the laws is, it's a task we accept for a choice we make.

Hey, no offense personally taken.

Remember,

* the OP doesn't have a concealed weapons permit,

* he's going on an out-of-state recreational ride. So OP's goal is to have a good time.

Well, 100% my recreational riding is going to rural mtn areas with scenery and curves and small towns,

and 100% is that I've encountered zero crime during these rides. Only met helpful, friendly people.

I bet his experience will be the same.

Having never encountered crime on these rides, step back and look at the complexity and risk of the responses here. Why would you wish this on someone?

Do you know anybody who's encountered deadly force directed against them while on a M/C tour? That's an honest question; I've never even heard of it happening.

In the risk/reward ratio calculation you're saying there's a great perceived reward to being armed in event of receiving deadly force threat. OK, agreed.

I'm saying there's zero perceived chance (risk) of receiving deadly force threat while on M/C tour. I mean, it just doesn't happen (correct me if I'm wrong).

And the guy doesn't have a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon even in his home state.

And some here would have him take his weapon into unfamiliar jurisdictions ... What's the risk/reward ratio for him in doing that?

And I mean no offense to you personally, pmspaul. When we meet, I'll buy you a beer.

UHOH ,, also well said and true ,,, :clapping: LOTS of liability to consider ... NOT something someone should take lightly...

And I have been to 30 states on the MC,,, haven't had any problems ,,, met good and helpful people ,,,

Haven't had any accidents ,,, no MC problems ,,, no Flat tires ,, etc..

But I still wear protective gear ,, carry a cell phone ,, and a fix a flat kit...

Great discussion ,,, LOTS of good input ,,,, :yahoo: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping:

 

[mr.paul]

Lot of great responses. i just add this one.

You would carry for the itme you are not on the bike. No one, who has educated themselves on this subject, will be firing from the bike.

Good luck on your search, and take it seriously.

My favorite quote is this. Remember, when seconds count, the Police are just minutes away.

mr.paul

 

[exskibum]

Just to clear up a couple potential misunderstandings about California.

First, Calif is NOT a reciprocal state -- it DOES NOT recognize CCWs from other states. Whether you are a resident of another state with a CCW from that state or a Calif resident with a non-resident CCW from another state, while in Calif you effectively do not have a CCW.

Second, it is technically possible to get a CCW in Calif as a Calif resident. BUT . . . that is problematic to most. It is left to the discretion of the local police chief (in a city) or Sheriff (in county) to determine whether you have "good cause" to allow you to carry concealed, and that is FAR from evenly applied. If you are a judge, not a problem. If you are politically connected, not a problem. Otherwise, what that translates to is that CCWs are nearly impossible to get for MOST folks -- but it runs the gamut from impossible for those who live in some places to considerably easier in others. Obviously, knowing the guy exercising the discretion is likely to make that a lot easier. And they expire and must be renewed frequently compared to other states.

The best option for Calif residents seeking to carry concealed while riding out of state is to get other states' non-resident CCW permits (gotta do the research re: which ones, but Utah is usually one of a couple that will give max coverage), so that you can have the most coverage in states that reciprocally recognize those non-resident permits.

BTW, Calif generally permits open carry, but there are lots of limitations and the prohibition against carrying while loaded in most public places still applies.

 

[old&slow]

Just to clear up a couple potential misunderstandings about California.
First, Calif is NOT a reciprocal state -- it DOES NOT recognize CCWs from other states. Whether you are a resident of another state with a CCW from that state or a Calif resident with a non-resident CCW from another state, while in Calif you effectively do not have a CCW.

Second, it is technically possible to get a CCW in Calif as a Calif resident. BUT . . . that is problematic to most. It is left to the discretion of the local police chief (in a city) or Sheriff (in county) to determine whether you have "good cause" to allow you to carry concealed, and that is FAR from evenly applied. If you are a judge, not a problem. If you are politically connected, not a problem. Otherwise, what that translates to is that CCWs are nearly impossible to get for MOST folks -- but it runs the gamut from impossible for those who live in some places to considerably easier in others. Obviously, knowing the guy exercising the discretion is likely to make that a lot easier. And they expire and must be renewed frequently compared to other states.

The best option for Calif residents seeking to carry concealed while riding out of state is to get other states' non-resident CCW permits (gotta do the research re: which ones, but Utah is usually one of a couple that will give max coverage), so that you can have the most coverage in states that reciprocally recognize those non-resident permits.

BTW, Calif generally permits open carry, but there are lots of limitations and the prohibition against carrying while loaded in most public places still applies.

Kalifornia Not a Pro-gun state !! Say it ain't so , exskibum ,,,,say it ain't so !!! :dribble: :blink: :dribble:

And here I figured California was a Pro-gun ,,,, God ,, Guts & Guns kind of state...

( Ohio was like that for many years,,, open carry ,, NO CCW ,,, yea,,, right ,, Try open carry ,down town Broad & High and see what happens,,

Don't know how / why but they Finally got their heads out of their asses ,,, and passed a CCW...,,,, )

Like Mr. Paul said ,,, when seconds count ,, the cops are just minutes away ...

and Don't get me wrong ,, my son-in-law is a cop,,, I have friends that are cops ,,, etc,,, But the cops get to fill out the paper work AFTER

the shit hits the fan ,,,

 

[exskibum]

O & S -- out of respect for the Board rule about political posts, I try to stick to the facts without injecting too much opinion. While I think that some reasonable regulation of firearms is desirable, I don't agree with a very large part of California gun laws and I think any system of laws should at least be understandable to the majority of the people to be governed by them.

One of the things that I see in many of the Calif gun laws I disagree with is a mechanism by which to arrest and charge gang bangers when they aren't actively doing something else that is chargeable but are hanging out with loaded weapons in the company of numerous other felons in circumstances that suggest that criminal activity (assault, murder, intimidation, etc.) is imminent and no other good purpose appears. Great -- I get the rationale on some of that in a difficult urban environment, but still don't think that making criminals out of law abiding citizens is the way to do it. OTOH, some of the gun laws make little sense in terms of what they don't accomplish while disadvantaging law abiding citizens vis-a-vis the criminal element (e.g., prohibiting concealed carry in wilderness and rural environments as well as urban ones, limiting mags to 10 rounds while it is abundantly clear that the gang banger doing the home invasion has 30 round magazines because he isn't getting his gun through legal channels or registering it, etc.). There is a LOT to criticize IMO, but I better stop before I give the admins a good reason to close what has otherwise been a pretty good discussion.

Absolutely agree with you on the lack of efficacy of open carry in most circumstances and on the need to take care of oneself when law enforcement cannot possibly be everywhere in time to thwart life threatening criminal behavior. With that, I'll stop and since the laws are what they are (at least for now), will try to limit my comments to what they are and what we law abiding citizens need to comply with (or face the penalties of ignoring).

 

[old&slow]

exskibum ,,, I'm on your side all the way ,,, :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

I try VERY hard not to interject political stuff in the discussion, also....

But I do like to poke fun whenever possible... Have a GOOD day,,,

and,,

God created man ,, but Samuel Colt made them equal ...... :assassin: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping:

(try telling that to John Holmes)

 

[Grumpy]

exskibum ,,, I'm on your side all the way ,,, :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
I try VERY hard not to interject political stuff in the discussion, also....

But I do like to poke fun whenever possible... Have a GOOD day,,,

and,,

God created man ,, but Samuel Colt made them equal ...... :assassin: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping:

(try telling that to John Holmes)

Can't poor old John holmes is dead!

 

[whataboutbob]

Isn't America great.anyone who does not want to carry a handgun has the right not to.I wouldn't want to trample anyones rights. Bob

 

[old&slow]

exskibum ,,, I'm on your side all the way ,,, :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
I try VERY hard not to interject political stuff in the discussion, also....

But I do like to poke fun whenever possible... Have a GOOD day,,,

and,,

God created man ,, but Samuel Colt made them equal ...... :assassin: :clapping: :yahoo: :clapping:

(try telling that to John Holmes)

Can't poor old John holmes is dead!

one of my favorite movie lines,,,,,,, Blazing Saddles ,,,,,

to the sheriff ,,, "They said you were hung." ,, sheriff , "and they were right "...

but the scene with the beans around the campfire ,,, I laughed until I cried...

What were we talking about anyway ,,, oh yea,, my guns bigger than your gun ,,,

 

[Big-D]

I know this topic is getting old, but I feel inclined to add my two cents worth.

Living in Arizona [currently] affords me my right to carry a weapon (concealed) with my CCW. Prior to undertaking any ride (or transportation by automobile) I always check the reciprocity agreements between Arizona and the other states I plan on crossing through. Luckily, my neighboring states of Utah, Colorado and New Mexico honor my CCW. California is no longer the place it once was, so I tend to avoid it whenever possible, even when not carrying a gun.

There is something to consider if thinking about carrying a firearm on this upcoming ride. Currently, there are plans to ride through three National Parks in Utah & Arizona. The Bill that would have allowed concealed carry in these parks is on hold until at least next year. You wouldn’t want to get caught with a firearm in any of these places … yet!

 

[Gerry.GEG]

Below is very good advice.

My take and obviously only my opinion is; I would rather defend what I had to do to survive (if it comes to that) than wish I would have had that option. I will never give a bad-guy the upper hand because I'm too concerned with the absolute rule in any particular state. If you're a level headed person it's a good thing for piece of mind. IF YOU"RE A HOTHEAD NEVER, EVER CARRY A GUN. Pepper spray is a good option if a person is not comfortable with legal concealed carry.

Just my 2cents.

But please refer to the excellent advice given below and make up your own mind.

Like many others have said, I highly suggest you read up on what it means to carry a weapon on you and what you can and can't do legally with it. Also read up on carrying concealed. Get an understanding of what each state considers carrying concealed. Understand what can legally happen to you if you have a weapon on you in the states you'll be traveling in. Think about situations where you might need to use a weapon and if you think you'll actually be able to. Decide then if you feel its worth it to you.

 

[gregorytx]

I carry a mid size Glock 40 caliber in my tank bag with my wallet, cell phone etc. I just take the bag with me when I leave the bike. Sometimes I carry a Colt Commander 45 also. I Never carry anything lower than a 40. Friend of mine from the Dallas Police Dept. works as an investigator and as he says it: "9mm and lower, go to the hospital and ask the victim what happened... 40 and up, forget it. They go to the morgue"

From my personal experience, shot placement is what counts. Most of the homicides I have been involved in where a firearm was used have been small caliber, .380 and smaller. Several were .22's. My suggestion to folks that carry is to not depend on the size of the round, but learn where to put it. I am completely comfortable carrying a .380 when off duty, as most shootings occur with 7 feet or less seperating the parties. With the advancement in ammo technology, there is some .380 ammo that is REALLY good.

 

[exskibum]

I am completely comfortable carrying a .380 when off duty, as most shootings occur with 7 feet or less seperating the parties. With the advancement in ammo technology, there is some .380 ammo that is REALLY good.

I'd be interested to hear your recommendations on .380 personal defense ammo.

 

[exskibum]

Currently, there are plans to ride through three National Parks in Utah & Arizona. The Bill that would have allowed concealed carry in these parks is on hold until at least next year. You wouldn’t want to get caught with a firearm in any of these places … yet!

Another point on that. When that bill was proceeding toward anticipated passage, the last I read about it was that IF you were legally entitled to carry concealed in a state in which that Nat'l Park lies, only then could you carry in that Nat'l Park. I.e., IF you had a recognized CCW in that state (or if one wasn't required by that state), then you could carry in the part of the Nat'l Park or Monument in that state.

That would be problematic for most folks in those areas of Nat'l Parks or Monuments within Calif., since few people have a Calif CCW (see my post above). It would also be problematic to non-residents of other states in which a Nat'l Park lies that require residence to get a CCW, and problematic in any state not affording reciprocity to the state's CCW you have. We're a ways from being home on what initially looked promising, and the process of researching every state's gun laws to be in compliance seems not to be getting any easier.

BTW, one of the real ironies in all that would be in Death Valley Nat'l Monument, part of which is in Calif and part of which is in Nev. With a Nev. CCW, you could carry in the Nev. part, but not in the Calif portion -- maybe you have to carry a GPS and know precisely where the state line is, and National Park Rangers would have to enforce different sets of rules depending upon which side you're on??

 

[pmspaul]

* the OP doesn't have a concealed weapons permit,* he's going on an out-of-state recreational ride. So OP's goal is to have a good time.

Having never encountered crime on these rides, step back and look at the complexity and risk of the responses here. Why would you wish this on someone?

Do you know anybody who's encountered deadly force directed against them while on a M/C tour? That's an honest question; I've never even heard of it happening.

I'm saying there's zero perceived chance (risk) of receiving deadly force threat while on M/C tour. I mean, it just doesn't happen (correct me if I'm wrong).

And the guy doesn't have a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon even in his home state.

And some here would have him take his weapon into unfamiliar jurisdictions ... What's the risk/reward ratio for him in doing that?

And I mean no offense to you personally, pmspaul. When we meet, I'll buy you a beer.

UHOH, I like your argument. I don't agree with it, never will, but I can appreciate the thought process. When we meet, I'll get the first round.

The OP doesn't need a CCW permit to legally transport his firearm anywhere with him. If he carries, well then that's different.

I have never had the possession of a firearm (either on my person or left in my vehicle) inhibit my ability to have fun, enjoy myself, relax or have a good time. As a CCW holder I don't sit silently in public at threat level red eyeballing potential threats. Now as to the risk and complexity of having to use deadly force, that is certainly real. But those are thoughts that won't cross my mind should I ever need to defend myself or my wife and kids.

I personally have never encountered crime on a ride, a trip, vacation or anywhere. I'm not sure I know anyone who has. But, to say the risk is zero, I don't agree with. To say it's low, I'm with you. When I take a trip I take along many things that I seriously doubt I will need, e.g., tool kits, jumper cables, fix-a-flat, rain gear, tire plugs, siphon hose and yes my firearm. This list is sometimes longer, often shorter if I stay close to home. But the point is that I bring items that either my own experience, or the experience of others has taught me I may need to have in the wrong situation to be prepared.

Now for the OP, as I mentioned before look into the Florida non-resident permit if you want to have CCW privileges outside of Cali. You can find all of this info through https://www.handgunlaw.us/ If you're just taking/transporting it with you: https://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59

 

[blurry vision]

relax, if you carry a gun, you are presented w/ all the problems of managing a deadly weapon; never leaving it, etc.What are you going to do when you meet someone and want a beer after the day's ride; carry it into a bar?

Instead on your ride, smile and seek to meet people and you'll experience the people in the USA. We live in a good society.

I am going to regret posting this, and may very well delete it after typing it or even posting it, but here goes.

So, because I legally keep a firearm on my person, on my bike or in my car, I will not be smiling and meeting new people or experiencing the people in the USA? Moreover I am unable to relax because I have to "manage" a deadly weapon? Yes, we live in a good society where bad people do bad stuff every day. I believe in god and I pray for my family's safety and believe HE watches over us. Does that mean I don't buckle up when I drive, put on a helmet when I ride, buy fire extinguishers for the house? I could go on, but reasonable people see my point.

I mean no offense to you personally UHOH, I've seen this mindset many times from many people. I was just as surprised to hear from some people I know who think this way as they would've been to find out I had a firearm with me or in my vehicle when they told me this.

And for those of you promoting non-lethal means of personal defense, know that there are plenty of laws governing the carry and possession of sprays and tasers throughout the USA. And know just as well that these weapons do not free you from legal recourse should you be forced to use them. Just check to see how many police departments all over the country are being sued for taser usage.

A firearm is a last resort when there is no escape, and CCW permit holders know about our duty to retreat. The responsibility of carrying a firearm is not for everyone. Some of us have taken good classes, fired thousands of rounds and honed skills at the range and in sport shooting competitions. But, that's not why the OP posted in the first place. He posted to find out how to comply with the laws because taking his firearm gives him peace of mind. Little did he realize the can of worms he was opening. The other CCW permit holders out there know how big a task making sure you comply with the laws is, it's a task we accept for a choice we make.

I respect the rights and opinions of those who choose not to carry and/or own firearms and normally would not engage in this discussion at all with such people. But whether you agree with those of us that do carry or not, you are safer because of the firearms that other people might be carrying. You see the bad guys don't know for sure whether you've got a gun, or I do. So maybe they'll decide neither one of us looks like a good victim today.

[/rant off]

 

[Wee Willy]

Carrying a gun in your bike is useless, when the shit hits the fan it will do so quickly and that gun in the bike will not help you. Of course there are always exceptions but if you cant have it on you dont bother. IMHO...this is even more true if you have to separate the ammo from the gun like many states require...

It's never useless...ever. Situations develop at all kinds of different rates and even tortoises can sometimes win races. Carry within the law, practice getting to the goods and hope you'll never need to find out if...

It's not a bad idea to get to know your sweetie's handling characteristics either...means plenty of quality time on the range. Get to know her backwards & forwards, inside & out.

Don't make it easy for the losers around us; if you gotta go out, go out swinging. And remember what the good book says...never bring a knife to a gun fight. Or was it never bet on a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest? Ah, hell, I don't remember.

Cheers,

W2

Looking for my good book...

 

[dcarver]

Don't be accidentally dropping your piece at 85 mpg on 395 while reaching in the tank bag for a clean towel to wipe your visor with, just sayin'.. :lol:

 

[FJRBluesman]

What's the big deal. You van't even find any ammo right now, so no biggie....

 

[200cs]

From my personal experience, shot placement is what counts. Most of the homicides I have been involved in where a firearm was used have been small caliber, .380 and smaller. Several were .22's. My suggestion to folks that carry is to not depend on the size of the round, but learn where to put it. I am completely comfortable carrying a .380 when off duty, as most shootings occur with 7 feet or less seperating the parties. With the advancement in ammo technology, there is some .380 ammo that is REALLY good.

I agree with your statement but, I do have my doubts as to the effectiveness of small caliber firearms. Another DPD officer stated most homicides he delt with were small caliber and went something like this: "victim sitting on his front porch minding his own business gets randomly shot by local badguy with a peashooter and dies" Now take the same victim and wire him up on crack cocaine or some other narcotic and add a big dose of adrenaline and you will empty that peashooter into him and it probably will not stop him. Large caliber handguns have a much better chance of doing the job and the same changes in ammo technology apply to large caliber handguns. I own two .380 hand guns for my wife to use in a home invasion and recently replaced them with 40 caliber due to the poor balistics compared to larger calibers. All that said, I hope and pray I never have to use them for their intended purpose.