Handlebar wobble

[jacko]

If you changed the suspension and the issue went away the problem was definetly suspension related. I know for a fact they don't all wobble as mine will only do it if my front pressure is low and I've never upgraded the suspension. Does your '09 wobble as well? Maybe a gen II thing? :dntknw:

----------------------------------------------------------

Yep my 09 has the wobble , could be Gen 2 thing , the wheel base was increased with the Gen 2 , not by much .

the thing is it takes bugger all to stop the wobble , one finger on one bar is all that needed , so stuff it I'm going to ignore it at this stage

I haven't done anything to the suspension on my 09 yet , I will probably up grade it when I get around to it , only because of the weight I manage to stack on the bloody thing when we go touring

Zoom Zoom , my forks are only a Bee's **** above the Top Clamp , 06 was the same .

 

[ionbeam]

...It is surprising that the forks were sticking about an inch out from the upper tree clamp. Is that normal?...

Definitely, truly and surely this is not correct unless your motorcycle also has lowering dog bones. It may be time for a lookie-see under your bike. If the dog bones are plain, cheap looking pieces of stamped steel they are stock :glare: If they are aftermarket dog bones they will look like a quality piece of metal and in all probability the manufacturer will brag and put his name prominently on the pieces.

Go to the Yamaha parts fiche and Proceed To Parts Catalog to look at the fiche for the forks. The cap on the fork screws in leaving just a thin shoulder on top of the fork. Just this cap shoulder is what is supposed to be above the top of the upper triple clamp.

 

[Beamer Reamer]

Just to add to what Ionbeam has been saying, the fork cap should stick up maybe 1/16 of an inch or so. Maybe 1/8th. I have participated in tech days with 25 bikes around when I was new to my FJR and checked that out first hand and they were all that way.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I developed a wobble when my original front tire (Bridgestone) wore out and was cupped badly....

A new front tire solved the problem... Tires DO MATTER....

 

[LAF]

I am fascinated about this topic to say the least.

It is a constant topic on the BMW LT Forums.

My LT did it from new, never stopped until I put a Z6 on the front about 4000 miles before I totaled it.

I ran Storm 2's, Metzler 880, the old Azzaro (which was the only one that did not cup) and the Z6 that looked like new after 3000 miles.

The LT has a steering damper on it.

We tried Dyna Beads, Ride On Tire sealant, and the problem persists for many, and a few select few never afflicted.

The long time riders say it is in fact tires. They said they have alleviated the issue with new rubber.

It is a distinct 36 to 44 MPH decelerating with no hands on the bars that can be anything from annoyance to a full out tank slap. Above that speed I could ride 5 miles no hands smooth as glass.

My biggest issue is if it comes to that with my hands off, and stops when I out them back on, then to me it is ever present. I believe that is what makes our tires wear to a point in the center! I know keep your hands on the bars, but the point is there is a oscillation, harmonic, mechanical induced issue at work.

As I said a Z6 balanced on my Mark Parnes, and I fussed with it till I was dizzy (er), and my LT was wobble free for the first time in 28,000 miles.

I find it fascinating the FJR is plagued by the same issue.

Is there that many bad tires out there? Incompetent Dealers at balancing tires? Same on owner tire changers? I mean I always bounced the front end as described setting the front before doing the pinch bolts and axle.

Have to say the mileage reports are not all that encouraging either. I know I have crap 021's on and I will not have them long.

So do you guys think you could figure this out in the next month or two?

 

[ionbeam]

I am fascinated about this topic to say the least...I find it fascinating the FJR is plagued by the same issue...

I'm not so sure that is true. During the '80s and '90s there were some larger motorcycles, many from brand H that were very prone to wobbles. In fact it was a rare example that did not have the no hands decel wobble in the 40 mph range. I believe that it is a rare FJR that does wobble. And, even more rare that one wobbles with a correct suspension setup, correct steering head torque and good tires.

In Zoom Zoom's case the results are still pending. Last report was that the fork tubes were extended 1" above the top triple tree clamp which would indeed increase the tendency to wobble. It still remains to be seen if ZZ purchased a FJR that also has lowering dog bones, which would explain the extended forks.

 

[LAF]

I am fascinated about this topic to say the least...I find it fascinating the FJR is plagued by the same issue...

I'm not so sure that is true. During the '80s and '90s there were some larger motorcycles, many from brand H that were very prone to wobbles. In fact it was a rare example that did not have the no hands decel wobble in the 40 mph range. I believe that it is a rare FJR that does wobble. And, even more rare that one wobbles with a correct suspension setup, correct steering head torque and good tires.

In Zoom Zoom's case the results are still pending. Last report was that the fork tubes were extended 1" above the top triple tree clamp which would indeed increase the tendency to wobble. It still remains to be seen if ZZ purchased a FJR that also has lowering dog bones, which would explain the extended forks.

Well his is not the first post I have seen on the topic on the various forums I visit.

I do have to agree if there indeed was a lowering attempt on the bike then yes it would induce the issue without suspension setup and to match the rider.

I apologize, I did not mean to YELL "Wobble" on a crowded FJR Forum

 

[ionbeam]

...Well his is not the first post I have seen on the topic on the various forums I visit...I apologize, I did not mean to YELL "Wobble" on a crowded FJR Forum

I smell the beginnings of a wobble pole. Does it wobble Y/N; from new Y/N; Comes & goes with tires Y/N; Fixed by steering bearings a) torqued b ) replaced c) changed to ball bearings; Fixed by tire balancing Y/N; Tire pressure related Y/N; Found bent rim Y/N; Suspension a) fixed with upgrade b ) fixed with adjustments c) caused by upgrades or adjustments; etc. -- these kinds of choices to help find overall numbers of wobblers vs stable FJRs and broadly what caused/fixed the problem. Any of you Wobblers want to step up and put the pole together to better understand the situation and potential fixes?

 

[Zoom Zoom]

I am fascinated about this topic to say the least...I find it fascinating the FJR is plagued by the same issue...

I'm not so sure that is true. During the '80s and '90s there were some larger motorcycles, many from brand H that were very prone to wobbles. In fact it was a rare example that did not have the no hands decel wobble in the 40 mph range. I believe that it is a rare FJR that does wobble. And, even more rare that one wobbles with a correct suspension setup, correct steering head torque and good tires.

In Zoom Zoom's case the results are still pending. Last report was that the fork tubes were extended 1" above the top triple tree clamp which would indeed increase the tendency to wobble. It still remains to be seen if ZZ purchased a FJR that also has lowering dog bones, which would explain the extended forks.

Thanks for the interest in the wobble issue.

I do not know what dog bones are. Can you Pl comment.

I adjusted the forks per Ionbeams specs, but the wobble persists.

New PR tires arrived today. I will have them mounted and report any progress or lack of progress.

ZZ

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I am fascinated about this topic to say the least...I find it fascinating the FJR is plagued by the same issue...

I'm not so sure that is true. During the '80s and '90s there were some larger motorcycles, many from brand H that were very prone to wobbles. In fact it was a rare example that did not have the no hands decel wobble in the 40 mph range. I believe that it is a rare FJR that does wobble. And, even more rare that one wobbles with a correct suspension setup, correct steering head torque and good tires.

In Zoom Zoom's case the results are still pending. Last report was that the fork tubes were extended 1" above the top triple tree clamp which would indeed increase the tendency to wobble. It still remains to be seen if ZZ purchased a FJR that also has lowering dog bones, which would explain the extended forks.

Thanks for the interest in the wobble issue.

I do not know what dog bones are. Can you Pl comment.

I adjusted the forks per Ionbeams specs, but the wobble persists.

New PR tires arrived today. I will have them mounted and report any progress or lack of progress.

ZZ

The "dog bones" are the rear suspension links that you can see directly under the bike. The rear shock sits just inside them, the centerstand outside of them. Different lenth "dogbones" will raise or lower your bike at the rear end. The stock bones are flat plain steel, no names printed on them and actually look like a dog bone with the ends flared out to connect to the rest of the suspension. Their used in most single shock suspensions nowadays... My original bridgestone 021 wore out, cupped badly too, I won't have another.

 

[ionbeam]

Here is where the dog bones are located.

Item 17; two places in this drawing

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Motorcycle Safety Foundation: "Wobble"

"Keep hands on handlebars."

"Move bodyweight down and forward."

 

[Zoom Zoom]

---------------------------------FJR 2006 10 k miles

Gents:

Installed new PR tires.

The wobble is 90% gone.

I am convinced now that tires were the major factor in causing the wobble on an unattended handlebar.

It appears that other factors are at play as others have achieved improvement after installing tapered bearings. Why would yami use ball bearings is beyond me, even old Guzzis have been using tapered bearings.

Regards

M Khan

 

[DVMpete]

Please post again when your wobble starts up again before your tire has aged. I have been through three different front tires and the wobble persists; sometimes from the get go, most recently about 600 miles on the new rubber----the tire type just exacerbates or suppresses the wobble. As with Jacko, I am convinced the FJR ('07 in my case) is predisposed to this 'problem'....there must be an underlying issue that creates this susceptibility, which is likely to be multifactorial. 600 miles ago, I had the steering bearings replaced as well as the tire...and everything tightened back up...yep, fixed the wobble....600 miles later its back with a vengeance.....it should not be happening....there is an underlying problem....as is suggested by the number of posts.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Installed new PR tires.The wobble is 90% gone.

I am convinced now that tires were the major factor in causing the wobble on an unattended handlebar.

It appears that other factors are at play as others have achieved improvement after installing tapered bearings.

Why would yami use ball bearings is beyond me

Please post again when your wobble starts up again before your tire has aged. I have been through three different front tires and the wobble persists; sometimes from the get go, most recently about 600 miles on the new rubber----the tire type just exacerbates or suppresses the wobble.I am convinced the FJR is predisposed to this 'problem'...there must be an underlying issue that creates this susceptibility...

Yes, there is/are -- and it's the steering geometry in combination with weight distribution. You can do a little about the steering geometry and you can do more about weight distribution. The more you make your FJR like a 'full-boat' touring bike -- the more you tend to exacerbate the issue. The more you make your FJR like a sport-bike (R-1) -- the more you tend to ameliorate the issue.

Things to do:

• Raise the back end.
  
• Slide the fork tubes 'up' in the triple camps (lower the front end).
  
• Stiffen the suspension.
  
• Remove any loaded 'tour-pak' luggage.
  
• Loaded side luggage should have anything heavier loaded forward and low.
  
• Use a 'tank bag' for some luggage (good location).

Think: "Mass Centralization".

As far a using radial ball bearings for steering head bearings: They're just fine (IMO). Yamaha certainly knows what bearings to use where...

I think any more bearing surface may only detract from the "fine" feel the rider gets when, say, initiating a turn.

One could tighten, 'damp', the steering and elimate all/any of this -- but, I prefer the sensitivity built into the FJR.

 

[tractorford]

FJR 2006

I rode my FJR first time back home, covered 300 miles and throughly enjoyed the ride. This is a great bike, no doubt about it.

One problem though; My hands really got tired so I lifted both of them for a few seconds and noted with horror that the handlebar was wobbling. The wobble went away when i put my hands back. It never happened on any previous bikes.

Is this normal?

Zoom Zoom

Replace the roller bearing in your head with tappered bearings, fixed my 2008 FJR, e-mail me if you need more information

 

[ionbeam]

Replace the roller bearing in your head with tappered bearings, fixed my 2008 FJR, e-mail me if you need more information

Or, you can install a steering damper or over torque the OEM steering head bearings.

I have what will probably be seen as an unpopular opinion on this. If you have a a runny nose and a cough you probably have a cold. Take just about any over-the-counter pill and your nose will dry up and you will stop coughing for a while. There, fixed it eh? In fact the root problem is that you have been infected by germs and this is the reason you sneeze/cough. Taking an OTC pill did nothing to address the root cause which is germs, but it did affect the expressed symptoms. To truly address the root cause you need an antibiotic prescribed by your Doc.

Replacing the steering head bearings is like taking an OTC pill, it affects the symptoms without addressing the root cause.

With no proven facts to back this up, it is my opinion that an extremely high number of FJRs have no steering wobble when new. If you ride off on your zero mile FJR and it wobbles there is a defect in materials or workmanship. If your FJR develops a wobble some time down the road it is due to wear, adjustment or damage. We have been fortunate that new front tires have resolved just about all wobbles. In Zoom Zoom's case we know that his front forks are not set to FSM specifications in addition to a worn front tire. ZZ may in fact also have aftermarket links in his rear suspension.

I had an early 80's Honda that wobbled from new, nothing defective, nothing out of adjustment, roughly 95% of this model wobbled. The extra steering resistance of roller bearings fixed it. My V-Max was a wobbler too; Mad Max was not known for wobbling but in my case no amount of diagnosis including rear swing arm bearings and other gonzo adjustments cured it. I installed and slightly over torqued roller bearings and Mad Max became civilized again. I rolled my 100% well behaved FJR into my garage and installed a new front tire, it rolled out of my garage wobbling. Pirelli replaced my tire, no questions asked and the wobble went away. Roller bearings fixed what ever problem the Honda's had, straight from the factory.

Roller bearings fixed the symptoms of my V-Max without addressing root cause. My FJR has only wobbled from worn or defective tires. Different situations, different solutions. IMO, change the FJR tires first, then if the wobble remains it's time to look for something bent, out of adjustment, out of alignment, improperly installed, damaged or defective.

I acknowledge that tractorford's roller bearings fixed his symptoms, I'm not so sure it addressed the root cause.

This concurrent thread overlaps with this thread.

 

[tractorford]

Replace the roller bearing in your head with tappered bearings, fixed my 2008 FJR, e-mail me if you need more information

Or, you can install a steering damper or over torque the OEM steering head bearings.

I have what will probably be seen as an unpopular opinion on this. If you have a a runny nose and a cough you probably have a cold. Take just about any over-the-counter pill and your nose will dry up and you will stop coughing for a while. There, fixed it eh? In fact the root problem is that you have been infected by germs and this is the reason you sneeze/cough. Taking an OTC pill did nothing to address the root cause which is germs, but it did affect the expressed symptoms. To truly address the root cause you need an antibiotic prescribed by your Doc.

Replacing the steering head bearings is like taking an OTC pill, it affects the symptoms without addressing the root cause.

With no proven facts to back this up, it is my opinion that an extremely high number of FJRs have no steering wobble when new. If you ride off on your zero mile FJR and it wobbles there is a defect in materials or workmanship. If your FJR develops a wobble some time down the road it is due to wear, adjustment or damage. We have been fortunate that new front tires have resolved just about all wobbles. In Zoom Zoom's case we know that his front forks are not set to FSM specifications in addition to a worn front tire. ZZ may in fact also have aftermarket links in his rear suspension.

I had an early 80's Honda that wobbled from new, nothing defective, nothing out of adjustment, roughly 95% of this model wobbled. The extra steering resistance of roller bearings fixed it. My V-Max was a wobbler too; Mad Max was not known for wobbling but in my case no amount of diagnosis including rear swing arm bearings and other gonzo adjustments cured it. I installed and slightly over torqued roller bearings and Mad Max became civilized again. I rolled my 100% well behaved FJR into my garage and installed a new front tire, it rolled out of my garage wobbling. Pirelli replaced my tire, no questions asked and the wobble went away. Roller bearings fixed what ever problem the Honda's had, straight from the factory.

Roller bearings fixed the symptoms of my V-Max without addressing root cause. My FJR has only wobbled from worn or defective tires. Different situations, different solutions. IMO, change the FJR tires first, then if the wobble remains it's time to look for something bent, out of adjustment, out of alignment, improperly installed, damaged or defective.

I acknowledge that tractorford's roller bearings fixed his symptoms, I'm not so sure it addressed the root cause.

This concurrent thread overlaps with this thread.

 

[tractorford]

Replace the roller bearing in your head with tappered bearings, fixed my 2008 FJR, e-mail me if you need more information

Or, you can install a steering damper or over torque the OEM steering head bearings.

I have what will probably be seen as an unpopular opinion on this. If you have a a runny nose and a cough you probably have a cold. Take just about any over-the-counter pill and your nose will dry up and you will stop coughing for a while. There, fixed it eh? In fact the root problem is that you have been infected by germs and this is the reason you sneeze/cough. Taking an OTC pill did nothing to address the root cause which is germs, but it did affect the expressed symptoms. To truly address the root cause you need an antibiotic prescribed by your Doc.

Replacing the steering head bearings is like taking an OTC pill, it affects the symptoms without addressing the root cause.

With no proven facts to back this up, it is my opinion that an extremely high number of FJRs have no steering wobble when new. If you ride off on your zero mile FJR and it wobbles there is a defect in materials or workmanship. If your FJR develops a wobble some time down the road it is due to wear, adjustment or damage. We have been fortunate that new front tires have resolved just about all wobbles. In Zoom Zoom's case we know that his front forks are not set to FSM specifications in addition to a worn front tire. ZZ may in fact also have aftermarket links in his rear suspension.

I had an early 80's Honda that wobbled from new, nothing defective, nothing out of adjustment, roughly 95% of this model wobbled. The extra steering resistance of roller bearings fixed it. My V-Max was a wobbler too; Mad Max was not known for wobbling but in my case no amount of diagnosis including rear swing arm bearings and other gonzo adjustments cured it. I installed and slightly over torqued roller bearings and Mad Max became civilized again. I rolled my 100% well behaved FJR into my garage and installed a new front tire, it rolled out of my garage wobbling. Pirelli replaced my tire, no questions asked and the wobble went away. Roller bearings fixed what ever problem the Honda's had, straight from the factory.

Roller bearings fixed the symptoms of my V-Max without addressing root cause. My FJR has only wobbled from worn or defective tires. Different situations, different solutions. IMO, change the FJR tires first, then if the wobble remains it's time to look for something bent, out of adjustment, out of alignment, improperly installed, damaged or defective.

I acknowledge that tractorford's roller bearings fixed his symptoms, I'm not so sure it addressed the root cause.

This concurrent thread overlaps with this thread.

Alan

You are correct in saying it does not find the root of the problems but when I bought the 2008 FJR (only because I like black) I was so unhappy with the bike because of the whobble, had I rode tested it before I bought it I wouldn't have bought it. Long story but now I'm happy with the bike. I've been riding for over 50 years and I have never had a bike wobble with me. The front tire only lasted 3,400 miles and it was so cupped I had to replace it. I ride hard but not hard enough to wear the front tire out in 3,400 miles. I read that most gold wings whobble from the factory and we have a place here in Atlanta that sell bearing kits to Gold Wings and other bikes like the FJR to relpace the head bearings with tappered bearings. They sell a lot of kit over the years so my Yamaha dealer replaced my bearings at no cost for labor and I paid for the bearings ($27.00) My dealer talked the Yamaha rep into picking up the cost of the labor. So now I have about 9,500 miles on the bike and the front Dunlop has 20% rubber left and no whobbling and almost no cupping can be seen on the tire. Also a female friend of mine who rides in the Iron Butt has over 100K miles on her FJR just replaced the head bearings with tappered bearings which stopped her bike from whobbling. She noticed excessive tire wear on the front while riding in one of the rallies and had to stop and install a new tire. To make this story short she replaced the bearings with tappered bearings and things are back to normal. We are not sure what the root of this prblem was because the bike waited until it had 100K before it started to whobble. My bike whobbled 50 feet from the show room doors!

Anyway I told my wife this would be the last bike I would buy because I don't have that many years left in me to ride. All my riding buddies have died either by cancer or heart problems. Would like to make one or two more rides from Atlanta to Western Cananda before I cash in.

Let me know when you find the root of the problem.

Regards

Tractorford

 

[mcatrophy]

....

Anyway I told my wife this would be the last bike I would buy because I don't have that many years left in me to ride. All my riding buddies have died either by cancer or heart problems. Would like to make one or two more rides from Atlanta to Western Cananda before I cash in.

...

Regards

Tractorford

Unless you have any on-going medical problems, you have probably misled your wife.

You are 56? I got my first modern bike aged 59. I'm now 68, just bought my second FJR. Still enjoy riding as much as ever, hope to keep going well into my next decade, as many on this forum have already done.

And I'm preparing for a 2.5 or 3K mile ride in April.