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MOST single vehicle accidents (not all, just about all though) are the drivers/riders fault.. Too fast for conditions, Failing to maintain control of their vehicle, Following too closely... ect, ect, ect... <snip>

Why shouldn't they be held responsible for their actions?
Hold on there WW, what does that have to do with the price of beans? Fault in a single vehicle accident is usually with the operator, but how does citing them benefit anyone? The operator is still going to be dealing with the damage to bike and gear, and sometimes Ins. increases too. How is adding another fine going to help that?

How are you holding them responsible for their actions by citing them? If they damage public property, is that money going to replace/repair it? Not likely. At least not directly.

 
MOST single vehicle accidents (not all, just about all though) are the drivers/riders fault.. Too fast for conditions, Failing to maintain control of their vehicle, Following too closely... ect, ect, ect... <snip>

Why shouldn't they be held responsible for their actions?
Hold on there WW, what does that have to do with the price of beans? Fault in a single vehicle accident is usually with the operator, but how does citing them benefit anyone? The operator is still going to be dealing with the damage to bike and gear, and sometimes Ins. increases too. How is adding another fine going to help that?

How are you holding them responsible for their actions by citing them? If they damage public property, is that money going to replace/repair it? Not likely. At least not directly.


OFfjr,

Remember... My statements are with regards to those causing preventible accidents.

Citing them is a benefit to everybody that pays insurance (other than the accident causers themselves I am sure).. It starts a paper trail on a crash prone squid/driver so that, if they have too many wrecks or other tags, it allows for the DOT/DMV to suspend/cancel/revoke their license. Also, making the driver have to pay much higher insurance rates to help payback for the messes they have caused. Most insurance companies will forgive an accident once and a while (even if its your fault). However, accidents along with some moving violations gets their attention... Thus, getting the attention of a poor driver/rider's checking book!! Also, allowing the Street Cops to have options when dealing with poor drivers that are suspended/cancel/revoked or not paying for insurance because they can't affoard their poor habits...

Say.. Impounding vehicles, Criminal tags, trips to jail, ect, ect...

Not even trying to say that the system is perfect, good or even works well.. But, its better than no system at all.

Life ain't fair.. And it sucks to be involved in an accident and then get a tag. Its a kick in the balls for sure.. But if you caused

the problem, it should be your problem. Sometimes medicine tastes bad...

Smells bad too!

WW

 
As far as my own traffic citation experiences, I've written countless thousands of tickets over my 20 year career. Never once was it because I was asked to, told to, or because our deparment needed the money. I set very high thresholds (16 over in 35mph zones and lower, and 21 over for any zone 45 and higher) before I'll even pull you over, and then there's still a chance of getting out of it depending on attitude, acknowledgment of culpability, etc. The locations I choose to work are places where I've responded to accidents (Barbur Blvd just south of Hamilton where we had a fatal and multiple serious injury accidents due to excessive speed and the Terwilliger Curves of I-5 where we used to have 106 accidents a month). Those two alone account for probably 2500 of the tickets I've ever written. Every single one of those tickets were for vehicles going more than 21 over the limit. I also worked neighorhood complaints and school zones. Again, my threshold was high (16 over).
EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.
That's an incredible difference from my experience. I've gotten a couple of speeding tickets in the past, 1 of them was for doing 56 in a 45, one for doing 41 in a 35, and on for doing 33 in a 25. And in each of those cases, the cop came up to the window and said "I'm writing you a ticket" and then proceeded to say he was going to do me a favor and knock it down (10 over in the case of the 11 over, and 5 over in the other 2 cases). Not even a 'do you know why I pulled you over' or anything.

Oh, yeah, and a ticket for 'negligent handling of a motorvehicle' for spinning out pulling out of a gravel parking lot onto a highway. No burning out on the pavement, just some noise and a dust cloud when I pulled out.

Would that we had cops like you around here, ponyfool. We almost never see a cop patrolling in the various accident prone, or otherwise troublesome areas around here. Heck, apparently having your house broken into or your car's window shot out aren't enough to even warrant a visit in our section of town, they'll just mail you a police report form (not even with a prepaid envelope!)

 
This has nothing to do with tickets . IT is my opinion speed helps used in a motorcycle application . Example how many times on the highway did a twist of the wrist help us all get us out of a jam . I myself last week on highway 70 a guy and his wife getting on the h/w (IT HAS 2 LANES 65MPH speed limit 95 %off the people go between 73to 80 ) he goes right over to the left lane where i am(i was going 70mph) if it was not for me speeding (i hit it and looked at the spedo 90mph) away i would of been on the side of the h/W dead . So in some applications SPEED helps RIDERS .

 
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Most tickets have little to do with right and wrong. They have to do with the issuing departments budget. It's a form of tax lotto. Some cops are born ********, but many are doing what their boss tells them they have to, even if they don't agree with it.
What a load of crap! This "theory" of yours is perpetuated by people who have no idea what they are talking about combined with simply not liking getting tickets. First of all, very few cops go out and write tickets because they are told to or else. Second of all, most cops work locations because of citizen complaints or locations high in accident rates.

While I readily acknowledge there are departments across the country that actually get revenue from tickets, it is not as pervasive as your assumption that "most" tickets are for said reason. I challenge you to present factual information on how the ticket money written by the state police in your state, or the local department you received your last ticket from is disbursed. In Oregon, departments that write tickets into municipal court do stand to benefit from their ticket writing. Thankfully, they are rare. Most major departments, and the state police write their tickets into circuit court. The disbursement is drastically different. In muni-court, 80% of the money stays in the city's coffers and 20% goes to the state's general fund. But, like I said, that's somewhat rare. In circuit court, only about 10% stays local, and what does stay rarely goes to the police budget.

As for getting a criminal citation after an accident, there is actually a reason for it. In Oregon, Reckless Driving is defined as "recklessly driving a vehicle upon a highway or other premises in a manner that endangers the safety of persons or property". Recklessly is defined as "a person is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation."

Thus, in a single vehicle accident, where speed is a contributing factor, especially what we call "FJR speeds" qualifies. I highly doubt there are very many, if any, people here who can articulate getting a criminal citation while obeying all laws and had a mechanical breakdown that caused the get off.

Now, having said that, I highly encourage you to read HotRodZilla's posts in any one of the other "woe is me" threads relating to speeding. His insight is worthy of plagerism.

As far as my own traffic citation experiences, I've written countless thousands of tickets over my 20 year career. Never once was it because I was asked to, told to, or because our deparment needed the money. I set very high thresholds (16 over in 35mph zones and lower, and 21 over for any zone 45 and higher) before I'll even pull you over, and then there's still a chance of getting out of it depending on attitude, acknowledgment of culpability, etc. The locations I choose to work are places where I've responded to accidents (Barbur Blvd just south of Hamilton where we had a fatal and multiple serious injury accidents due to excessive speed and the Terwilliger Curves of I-5 where we used to have 106 accidents a month). Those two alone account for probably 2500 of the tickets I've ever written. Every single one of those tickets were for vehicles going more than 21 over the limit. I also worked neighorhood complaints and school zones. Again, my threshold was high (16 over).

EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.
Could you do me a big favour and move to Surrey, BC.?? Here, where policing is handled by the RCMP [Revenue Collection Mobile Patrol], tickets are regularly handed out at speeds under 5 km/hr [3 mph]. Nasty bit of kit these guys are, in a land of universally too low posted speeds.

Steve

 
Could you do me a big favour and move to Surrey, BC.?? Here, where policing is handled by the RCMP [Revenue Collection Mobile Patrol], tickets are regularly handed out at speeds under 5 km/hr [3 mph]. Nasty bit of kit these guys are, in a land of universally too low posted speeds.

Steve

Ohio was like that when I lived there. Unrealistic speed limits with every cop having a radar unit. Ticket writing was the main revenue in a lot of those small towns.

California is very lax on speed laws compared to other states. Radar is only used under certain circumstances, and for many years was not allowed to be used at all on the freeway system. That being said, we have the 2nd worst drivers in the Nation, with a lot of them being unlicensed and uninsured. Makes the responsible people drive a lot more carefully.

There's this constant cry in S. Ca. that 'we need more police', but as far as I'm concerned, if it means they'll be out there writing a bunch of chicken s**t traffic tickets to justify their existence, we don't need any more.

 
[ Every single one of those tickets were for vehicles going more than 21 over the limit. I also worked neighorhood complaints and school zones. Again, my threshold was high (16 over).
EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.
As a long term resident of the Rose City (left only two years ago) I managed to never, ever get a speeding ticket. I came to the conclusion that you really had to be 'asking for it' to get one. Rumor is that no such suspension of sanity is required in some of the bedroom communities. Of course, rush hour traffic in Portland has gotten so bad that you really can't get anywhere then anyway. There is nothing like being stuck in traffic, breathing a deadly mixture of exhaust and spotting a city car with the sign that reads "Portland the City that Works!".

 
Since getting a license, I've probably been stopped more than 100 times. Of those, only a very small number have resulted in tickets. It has usually been enough for the officer to explain, "Look, here is what I caught you doing...And here is what I want you to do..." Of course, I never, ever, ever, display anything other than respect for the officer, I don't lie about what I was doing, I give my justified (in my head) reason if I have one, apologize for doing what I know was legally wrong, and let the cards fall where the officer tosses 'em. With this approach, I can honestly say that I have never encountered an officer that I could honestly say was just an *******. I've encountered a couple that were very serious, and very "by-the-book" in their behavior, but hey, I did something or I never would have encountered them.
A hundred times? I've been driving for 40 years including work as a truck driver, and I've been stopped about ten times while being 'guilty as hell' in all but one of them. How do you manage to get stopped a hundred times?

 
Could you do me a big favour and move to Surrey, BC.?? Here, where policing is handled by the RCMP [Revenue Collection Mobile Patrol], tickets are regularly handed out at speeds under 5 km/hr [3 mph]. Nasty bit of kit these guys are, in a land of universally too low posted speeds. Steve
Steve, Oregon has no sales tax, so the state, and some local, governments are kept starved. There are very few police, especially state police and they are kept pretty busy with stuff besides traffic. This being the case there are plenty of actual dangerous drivers to go around, so the herd of motorists can be thinned by only removing the most infirm in a natural system that has some advantages for predator and prey alike.

Of course, the state, in typical American fashion, runs its judical system like a growth industry. They are constanly in the process of building highly efficient production facilies that bring the shackled raw material in, cage them temporarily in inventory, quickly shove them through the judicial stampler, then cart them out to the larger forced criminal training centers, before releasing them for reprocessing.

Your Canadian facilies for doing the advanced destruction of the human character are no match for ours, if I were you I'd stop yelping and just take the tickets.

 
As far as my own traffic citation experiences, I've written countless thousands of tickets over my 20 year career. Never once was it because I was asked to, told to, or because our deparment needed the money. I set very high thresholds (16 over in 35mph zones and lower, and 21 over for any zone 45 and higher) before I'll even pull you over, and then there's still a chance of getting out of it depending on attitude, acknowledgment of culpability, etc. The locations I choose to work are places where I've responded to accidents (Barbur Blvd just south of Hamilton where we had a fatal and multiple serious injury accidents due to excessive speed and the Terwilliger Curves of I-5 where we used to have 106 accidents a month). Those two alone account for probably 2500 of the tickets I've ever written. Every single one of those tickets were for vehicles going more than 21 over the limit. I also worked neighorhood complaints and school zones. Again, my threshold was high (16 over).
EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.
That's an incredible difference from my experience. I've gotten a couple of speeding tickets in the past, 1 of them was for doing 56 in a 45, one for doing 41 in a 35, and on for doing 33 in a 25. And in each of those cases, the cop came up to the window and said "I'm writing you a ticket" and then proceeded to say he was going to do me a favor and knock it down (10 over in the case of the 11 over, and 5 over in the other 2 cases). Not even a 'do you know why I pulled you over' or anything.
You'll notice Ponyfool said "I set..." not "the department set..." - I think there's your difference. I know and have seen people getting tickets for 5mph over and sometimes nothing for doing the same thing in the same area at a different date. If you want a consistent enforcement of speeding I think we'll have to accept "big brother" style automated cameras. I really enjoy the ones set up to catch red-light runners. (Seriously, not being sarcastic) Plus, every jurisdiction could have different criteria.

I think the main topic of complaint centered around getting a ticket for a moving violation in a single-vehicle accident. WickedWebby, IMHO, hit it square; it starts a papertrail for claims. Sucks, yep...and I really feel bad for someone with two broken hands (although right now I would enjoy a few people with them, they'd stop using a computer keyboard at work) :)

 
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