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RatoneMuerto

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Has anyone ever had such an experiences as I have had with the law?It has been two months now since my crash on Arkansas.I am still recovering but each day brings a new meaning to being thankful for Fast healing.One thing that really has chapped me is that I got a criminal citation and a traffic citation for my wreck.Really nice thing to find in your stuff when you get home and are totally out of it.I couldnt even sign it because both hands were broken and tied to a back board.I had to go to court in Nashville Arkansas last week.I show up still in pain with my cane and idiots did not get the officer there as requested for trial.I took a plea deal and the criminal charge was dismissed.Prosecuting attourney couldnt understand why I was charged.I guess being an Arkansas State Trooper lets you do whatever to out of state rally attendees that wreck out on their crappy gravel covered roads

 
Has anyone ever had such an experiences as I have had with the law?It has been two months now since my crash on Arkansas.I am still recovering but each day brings a new meaning to being thankful for Fast healing.One thing that really has chapped me is that I got a criminal citation and a traffic citation for my wreck.Really nice thing to find in your stuff when you get home and are totally out of it.I couldnt even sign it because both hands were broken and tied to a back board.I had to go to court in Nashville Arkansas last week.I show up still in pain with my cane and idiots did not get the officer there as requested for trial.I took a plea deal and the criminal charge was dismissed.Prosecuting attourney couldnt understand why I was charged.I guess being an Arkansas State Trooper lets you do whatever to out of state rally attendees that wreck out on their crappy gravel covered roads

As a prosecuting attorney myself if I can't understand why someone is charged I look into it with the arresting officer. If I still am not satisfied, it gets dismissed. My job is not to cover mistakes made by the police. You did not give any specifics on your charges or what you pled to. Did you have a lawyer? Certainly if you wanted a trial you would have been entitled to an adjournment for the trooper to be available. If they were just vehicle and traffiic violations that required the trooper's presence and it was set for trial that day a motion to dismiss would have been appropriate. In any event, what's done is done and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

 
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Yes, the law is pretty damn opaque if you're not a lawyer, and lots of mysterious and irritating things happen. I've been charged with an accident where the car obviously turned left in front of me, but my lawyer got that dismissed and we filed charges against the driver and won. Lawyers are expensive for a reason: they have to know how to deal with the really stupid and ******** legal system.

Good luck, and I hope you heal. Been there, done that, got the polaroids of full-body bruises.

 
A good lawyer is worth a lot. A bad lawyer can just make things worse. This is one of those areas where you don't always get the same value for the dollar spent. The legal system really isn't fair... but any system based on advocacy (like ours) is going to be affected by the quality of the advocates.

Also, regarding the comment that if the officer didn't show, you would likely get the case dismissed on traffic violations... That's what I've seen too. If the witness isn't there, there isn't any basis to convict, so at the least it would be postponed, and for traffic stuff my experience watching it is that it gets dismissed.

 
Has anyone ever had such an experiences as I have had with the law?It has been two months now since my crash on Arkansas.
...

Prosecuting attourney couldnt understand why I was charged.I guess being an Arkansas State Trooper lets you do whatever to out of state rally attendees that wreck out on their crappy gravel covered roads
Same thing here. I lowsided near Jasper, AR, during the SFO rally in April, and the first words from the responding officer were, "You're probably gonna think I'm an *******, but...". The rest of what he said that day came straight out of his ***, but those first 7 words were spot on. I hired an attorney who was dead certain he could get the ticket dismissed, but it would have meant I'd have had to travel down there, stay overnight, possibly bring in one or more witnesses, etc. Bottom line, it was faster and probably cheaper to plead it down to a non-moving violation, especially if you consider the long term insurance impact. *******s.

 
Has anyone ever had such an experiences as I have had with the law?It has been two months now since my crash on Arkansas.
...

Prosecuting attourney couldnt understand why I was charged.I guess being an Arkansas State Trooper lets you do whatever to out of state rally attendees that wreck out on their crappy gravel covered roads
Same thing here. I lowsided near Jasper, AR, during the SFO rally in April, and the first words from the responding officer were, "You're probably gonna think I'm an *******, but...". The rest of what he said that day came straight out of his ***, but those first 7 words were spot on. I hired an attorney who was dead certain he could get the ticket dismissed, but it would have meant I'd have had to travel down there, stay overnight, possibly bring in one or more witnesses, etc. Bottom line, it was faster and probably cheaper to plead it down to a non-moving violation, especially if you consider the long term insurance impact. *******s.
Most tickets have little to do with right and wrong. They have to do with the issuing departments budget. It's a form of tax lotto. Some cops are born ********, but many are doing what their boss tells them they have to, even if they don't agree with it.

 
I may have posted this elsewhere...

Summer of 2008 I crossed lanes on I-70 to avoid two cars in front of me about to hit each other. So I passed them and moved ahead about 1/8 of a mile. A trooper on a bike was behind me and pulled me over instead of the two morons behind me. I was cited for illegal lane manuever and speeding. He tagged 9 pts on my license and even his calculation of the points was above where it should have been if I was guilty of those crimes.

I had no choice but to hire an attorney. He told me that the outcome will depends on which judge oversees the matter and who it is from the DA's office will be prosecuting the case. He met with the assistant DA in my behalf. She not only reduced the incident to a non-moving violation but apologized to me on behalf of the state.

She told me that getting a fair hearing at the time of being pulled over depends on who it is that pulls me over.

Just shows that the system is managed by people with all their various personalities and personal issues involved.

 
Most tickets have little to do with right and wrong. They have to do with the issuing departments budget. It's a form of tax lotto. Some cops are born ********, but many are doing what their boss tells them they have to, even if they don't agree with it.
What a load of crap! This "theory" of yours is perpetuated by people who have no idea what they are talking about combined with simply not liking getting tickets. First of all, very few cops go out and write tickets because they are told to or else. Second of all, most cops work locations because of citizen complaints or locations high in accident rates.

While I readily acknowledge there are departments across the country that actually get revenue from tickets, it is not as pervasive as your assumption that "most" tickets are for said reason. I challenge you to present factual information on how the ticket money written by the state police in your state, or the local department you received your last ticket from is disbursed. In Oregon, departments that write tickets into municipal court do stand to benefit from their ticket writing. Thankfully, they are rare. Most major departments, and the state police write their tickets into circuit court. The disbursement is drastically different. In muni-court, 80% of the money stays in the city's coffers and 20% goes to the state's general fund. But, like I said, that's somewhat rare. In circuit court, only about 10% stays local, and what does stay rarely goes to the police budget.

As for getting a criminal citation after an accident, there is actually a reason for it. In Oregon, Reckless Driving is defined as "recklessly driving a vehicle upon a highway or other premises in a manner that endangers the safety of persons or property". Recklessly is defined as "a person is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation."

Thus, in a single vehicle accident, where speed is a contributing factor, especially what we call "FJR speeds" qualifies. I highly doubt there are very many, if any, people here who can articulate getting a criminal citation while obeying all laws and had a mechanical breakdown that caused the get off.

Now, having said that, I highly encourage you to read HotRodZilla's posts in any one of the other "woe is me" threads relating to speeding. His insight is worthy of plagerism.

As far as my own traffic citation experiences, I've written countless thousands of tickets over my 20 year career. Never once was it because I was asked to, told to, or because our deparment needed the money. I set very high thresholds (16 over in 35mph zones and lower, and 21 over for any zone 45 and higher) before I'll even pull you over, and then there's still a chance of getting out of it depending on attitude, acknowledgment of culpability, etc. The locations I choose to work are places where I've responded to accidents (Barbur Blvd just south of Hamilton where we had a fatal and multiple serious injury accidents due to excessive speed and the Terwilliger Curves of I-5 where we used to have 106 accidents a month). Those two alone account for probably 2500 of the tickets I've ever written. Every single one of those tickets were for vehicles going more than 21 over the limit. I also worked neighorhood complaints and school zones. Again, my threshold was high (16 over).

EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.

 
Most tickets have little to do with right and wrong. They have to do with the issuing departments budget. It's a form of tax lotto. Some cops are born ********, but many are doing what their boss tells them they have to, even if they don't agree with it.
What a load of crap! This "theory" of yours is perpetuated by people who have no idea what they are talking about

combined with simply not liking getting tickets. First of all, very few cops go out and write tickets because they are told to or else.

...

EVERY cop I know writes tickets for the same reasons. NOT due to revenue collection or because they are told to.
over the years, most officers interactions I've had have been good, but usually I've not been on the business end, so to speak.

However, don't get upset with people who have different experiences than you provided. Note this current news headline

[SIZE=14pt]"Boise Police may Issue More Tickets to Boost Revenues"[/SIZE]

link Feb-2009, More Tickets = More $

 
I set very high thresholds (16 over in 35mph zones and lower, and 21 over for any zone 45 and higher) before I'll even pull you over, and then there's still a chance of getting out of it depending on attitude, acknowledgment of culpability, etc.
Would you come be Fresno's traffic Sargent?

Is there another threshold for FJR buddies?

 
W/O getting too deep into the arguments here, one of the issues is that "threshold" Pony talks about. It varies to each individual officer. Some people push the envelope, others know they are way over it, and still whine about getting cited.

I'm not a big fan of multiple tickets for single vehicle accidents. Especially ones not witnessed by the officer. I know of a few incidents first hand where speed was not a factor to the single vehicle accident, but the 'failure to control vehicle' ticket was still issued, (WA state). No amount of direct witness interaction was able to convince the officer that arrived 45 minutes after the fact to not cite in one case.

Don't stress too much Ponyfool. I know you're not on patrol any more and you know no one likes to be pulled over.

Personally, I could do w/o traffic enforcement outside of towns/cities. If the posted speed is the state's maximum, the roads usually tolerate more than that easily. Then it becomes more about the numbers, rather than "safety", imho.

 
In muni-court, 80% of the money stays in the city's coffers and 20% goes to the state's general fund.
Do you happen to know if the breakdown is the same for every citation, i.e. speeding, seat belt, using a cell phone, etc...?

 
Since getting a license, I've probably been stopped more than 100 times. Of those, only a very small number have resulted in tickets. It has usually been enough for the officer to explain, "Look, here is what I caught you doing...And here is what I want you to do..." Of course, I never, ever, ever, display anything other than respect for the officer, I don't lie about what I was doing, I give my justified (in my head) reason if I have one, apologize for doing what I know was legally wrong, and let the cards fall where the officer tosses 'em. With this approach, I can honestly say that I have never encountered an officer that I could honestly say was just an *******. I've encountered a couple that were very serious, and very "by-the-book" in their behavior, but hey, I did something or I never would have encountered them.

 
I won't bore people with a lot of my personal memory lane. I will say every time but one when I was pulled over, I was doing something wrong. I've gotten my share of tickets, but also been treated with respect (except one time -- different than the other mentioned). I can say honestly I have lucked out with warnings or reduced charges (the speed was lowered despite radar) many many times more often than the one or two times I felt wronged; and with reflection after the fact I ended up seeing the officer's points and chagrin overtook anger. After 35 years of driving I can't ***** about the professionalism of cops in general, and considering the numbers of LEO's out there, it is a small number IMHO that give them a bad name in some quarters. Same goes for every profession, doctors, nurses, teachers, etc. Except all firemen are great.

YMMV

 
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Still haven't heard anymore on the specifics of your wreck Ratone,

BUT,

I am with Pony here, not because of jobs either... We have disagreed on plenty with regards to job issues in the past. We have different assignments (I am not a midddle manager or a politician) and I do work the street.

And lets be real, my level/belief in traffic enforcement is probably about 1/10th of Pony's stated and 1/1000th of Pigs...

Having said that:

MOST single vehicle accidents (not all, just about all though) are the drivers/riders fault.. Too fast for conditions, Failing to maintain control of their vehicle, Following too closely... ect, ect, ect...

I know there are some (very few) instances that a driver/rider is not at fault for a single vehicle wreck.. And they shouldn't be cited in those cases.

Although, in the case of a dipshit driver or squid riding beyond their abilities.......

Consider this:

Their actions just tied up traffic and public safety resourses? They may have just caused damage to public and/or other property (than theirs)? They could of injured an innocent bystander, even if they didn't.. They may have just put the public at risk? Hell... Would if they don't have health insurance? And they are in a State like mine where the taxpaying folks (with jobs) have to pay for their medical bills??

Why shouldn't they be held responsible for their actions?

In all my years (six years short of Pony's total time, but mine has been all on the street), I have stopped hundreds of bikes... I have only cited 2 of them. One was because he fled from me and caused two injury accidents during the chase, the other was because the ******* ran over a small child (screwing off in a residential neighborhood).

WW

(Hahahahaha!! Shiny.. you right.. Gotta love them Fire Fighters!)

 
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As long as we don't get another lecture on how speed kills, yada, yada, yada. I think a lot of people figured out long ago what a load of crap that is. Speed can be a contributing factor to a lot of nasty stuff, but it's never the sole reason. OK, maybe never is too strong a word. Who knows what scientists will discover tomorrow.

 
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