HD on Trial

[wheatonFJR]

HD on Trial

 

[BwanaDik]

This could be bad news on a lot of different levels.....

When I read this I thought of an HD rider I saw on the freeway the other day whose bike wobbled when he crossed the Botts Dots when changing lanes. Poor design or low/bad/non-existant maintenance?

Keep us up to date on this?

 

[Fred W]

Or ****** / new rider?

 

[juniorfjr]

Or ****** / new rider?

That is what came to my mind, How long has he ridden? What are his qualifications?

Interesting to hear how this comes out.

 

[Spud]

Maybe he already had issues from the concussions he got while he QB'd the Bears....

This trial is in Chicago after all, it must be him

 

[CHRIS_D]

I know personally of 2 riders who have gone down because of their HD's spoke rims coming loose while doing highway speeds. I bet you that is what this is about.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Or ****** / new rider?

That is what came to my mind, How long has he ridden? What are his qualifications?

I don't see how a bike shaking on a freeway is the rider's fault...

I know personally of 2 riders who have gone down because of their HD's spoke rims coming loose while doing highway speeds. I bet you that is what this is about.

IF it is loose spokes? -- that is, and has been "forever", an issue (especially on bikes with big engines). Wire spoke wheels need attention -- especially early-on (eventually, they "seat" and need less attention). Cast wheels = mo' betta.

From the article:

As McMahon rode down the Arizona interstate in 2004 with a group of his Chicago firefighter buddies, his motorcycle weaved and wobbled before it crashed, according to his attorney, Scott Hooper.

What's more, Hooper said, Harley-Davidson had noticed a number of motorcycles that were "shaking violently," particularly when turning into curves.

I don't know how many curves, of any consequence, exist on Arizona's Interstates -- or, the Interstate Highway System -- in general (it's designed with limited radius curves -- mainly for commercial traffic)?

But Mark Kircher, the Harley-Davidson attorney ...told the jury that a mechanical defect was not to blame.

"When the road turned, he didn't," Kircher said of McMahon.

 

McMahon's bike was a "highly engineered product," Kircher said.

Compared to what...?

He (McMahon) told the jury the front end started shaking. He tried to slow down, and when he felt the shaking worsen, he sped up a bit.

This comment does seem to lend credence to the opinions of 'Fred W' and 'juniorfjr'. :blink:

 

[RaYzerman19]

I'm willing to bet HD won't be found guilty. It will be hard to prove there is a "defect". What likely might come into question is the rider's training, condition of the tires, brand of tires (if not OEM), enough air in the tires and does he check them before EVERY ride, suspension setting for the rider's weight (if they have one), maintenance records for things like steering head bearings, etc., and how many of similar model have documented evidence of having done this (anecdotal will be thrown out). Rightly or wrongly... jes sayin'

 

[Bearly Flying]

This is a VERY bad precedent,Hardly Ableson may not be the most advanced design on the market, but what it will do is set a precedent for all other manufactures. If some ***** gets on their bike and has a wreck, They are going to sue. Guess who gets to pay for their stupidity.....

 

[SacramentoMike]

He (McMahon) told the jury the front end started shaking. He tried to slow down, and when he felt the shaking worsen, he sped up a bit.

This comment does seem to lend credence to the opinions of 'Fred W' and 'juniorfjr'. :blink:

Personally, I ALWAYS speed up when I get into a dangerous situation. Gets you OUT of it so much faster.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

But yeah, I hate to see this precedent set, for the reasons already stated.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

In the '80s, when the late Les Harris was building Triumphs from spares (no new factory or new bikes yet), new Triumph company owner John Bloor would've liked to sell them in the U.S. (after all, the U.S. had traditionally been their largest market) -- but, they couldn't get liability insurance to cover them (probably too small an operation for the amount of exposure?).

Can you say: litigious society?

 

[BikerGeek99]

Hell - I don't see there being any way the MoCo will be found guilty. Just the fact that this is going to trial tells me that the guy didn't take HD's settlement offer.

Precedent? Well, guys, keep in mind all the times that GM, Ford and Chrysler have been sued.

Anyway, I'm with Ray - this guys wreck will be attributed to something other than motorcycle design.

Damn it all, though. I rode my Harley to work today and went for a little spin during lunch time.

Pray for me, boys. Pray that I make it home...

 

[fljab]

Or ****** / new rider?

That is what came to my mind, How long has he ridden? What are his qualifications?

Interesting to hear how this comes out.

I don't know the answer to what his experience was or if anything was wrong with the bike, but I may have something that is relevant here.

I've owned HD's for 30 yrs, my last - still owned - and most current is a '99 Ultraclassic purchased new that I've stipped down (removed the tourpack & lowers) to make sorta my version of a streetglide. These have a front end mounted fairing aka the "batwing" fairing. This bike has not been in an accident of any kind - certainly it hasn't hit a pig like I did with the FJR the first night I owned it!!!

I have always had a wobbling issue with it; not all the time and all speeds, but there's times when I'm at freeway speeds around trucks/gusty winds that it gets sorta "hairy".

To try and correct this I have replaced dang near every bearing on the bike, and tightened up the friction on the neck bearings to no avail. I also copied/built a stabilizer for the frame to trans that is popular for these models. Since buying the FJR, this bike has now been relegated to local duties.

When I started looking for another bike (that led to my FJR) to use primarily for freeway/long distance, I had two requirements: a frame mounted fairing and either shaft or belt drive. The frame mounted fairing is what I felt was primarily needed to avoid the "wobble" at freeway speeds - and I believe I'm right about that.

And yes, I do have - many - yrs of riding experience; that doesn't mean I'm the best rider out there by any means, but I do know motorcycles generally and have ridden in alot of different conditions.

On the HD, I am still going to try and somehow do a clean ram-type steering dampner for it (no direct application for this bike that I can find). It doesn't get on the freeway much these days - heck, it doesn't get ridden much at all after I bought the FJR a year ago! - but still, I do enjoy it for what it is.

No HD love fest here, but thought the "voice of reason" here might add to the thread, and to say IME what this man says could have merit...

 

[Fred W]

The frame mounted fairing is what I felt was primarily needed to avoid the "wobble" at freeway speeds - and I believe I'm right about that.

Ding, ding ding.

You are 100% correct (IMNSHO).

Just thinking about the physics, how could it work any way differently?

I mean, if there is a faring that is mounted on the bike's forks, when it gets hit with the dirty turbulent wind blast off an 18 wheeler, where else is that force to be transmitted?

That said and agreed upon, (ie that a fork mounted faring will induce undulation into the steering) is that a good reason to stack it up and subsequently blame the bike maker?

People have been riding bikes with frame mounted faring since the faring was first conceptualized. They didn't crash and then try to blame their lack of ability to control their vehicle on the manufacturer. And yes, some motorcycle designs are inherently more or less stable. Is that the "fault" of the manufacturer? Should all fork mounted farings be outlawed? Should MC's only be allowed on the road that have the attributes that make them inherently stable (and therefore boring as hell)? Or as SAFE as possible? Only ABS allowed? Only bikes with AirBags allowed?

We all realize that riding a 2 wheel conveyance automatically includes a certain acceptance of added risk. I'm of the opinion that this falls into that "added risk" segment.

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Sad.

 

[fljab]

<snippage before>

That said and agreed upon, (ie that a fork mounted faring will induce undulation into the steering) is that a good reason to stack it up and subsequently blame the bike maker?

<snippage during>

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Sad.

Can't argue with ya there Fred! I guess I just "piped up" as questions of the riders ability was brought up, so wanted to comment on the fairing situations on this bike. It looks like the court will have to decide in this case the responsibility of the manufacturer.

When I made up my mind to find a frame mounted fairing bike ( and "looked/compared for a year), I did look at Road Glides - the only bike that HD sells that is that way, but between the much higher cost, the dealer trying to "do me a favor" by selling me a HD, and the real desire for "Hope and Change", I went with the FJR; no regrets there for sure...........

Kinda wish I'd done this - many - yrs ago!

 

[wheatonFJR]

End story - settlement linky

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Thanks 'wheatonFJR', what does that mean, tho?

From the article:

"A settlement has been reached...quadriplegic ...Jim McMahon...suing Harley-Davidson, claiming...faulty motorcycle...company...said driver error caused the wreck.

...jury trial ...jurors had indicated ...to the judge ...unable to agree if there was liability"

Do we know if the m/c was faulty or the rider inept? I guess if it was, say, 60/40 (lawyers call that a win...) -- 60% faulty m/c, 40% inept rider (or, the reverse?)?

??? H-D not liable -- is what I read...

 

[BikerGeek99]

Thanks 'wheatonFJR', what does that mean, tho?

It means the same thing that every other settlement means - the company tosses a nice chunk of change to the guy on the bike and admits no fault, and the guy takes his money and keeps his mouth shut.

Oh, yeah - and the lawyers all get their 'fare' share.

 

[ionbeam]

It also means that the firefighter was planning to pursue the lawsuit, so what HD offered the guy was probably less than what they estimated a new trial would cost.