Help Figure out what I need to replace

[twistedcricket]

I made a trip from Omaha to Oakland yesterday/today (Jun 25/26) to attend a week-long IT Conference. I took two days to traverse NE, WY, UT, NV and CA.

The issue; brakes started steaming and it seemed like I lost power or the FJR went into a Limp Mode while at highway speed. Up to that point there was no fade, or other issue. I was coming from Rock Springs, WY and had ridden overnight. I arrived at Reno around 10:44am, stopped for fuel and then started the descent into CA.

I-80 westbound from Reno/Tahoe is a downhill twisty road and on a Sunday is heavily traveled. There were a few “panic stops” (2 or 3) and several long slow braking stretches. The temps were in the upper 80s at the top of the stretch and into the upper 90s when I reached Sacramento. In Sacramento the traffic was shiity. The temp reached 102. I was lane-splitting a bit but mostly going with the flow of traffic. I normally use the brake pedal, but on the panic stops I went for both the lever and the pedal. I try to not use the front brakes exclusively.

Nothing seemed out of the ordinary and this happened at a point where the traffic was opening up after having come to a stand-still. I was in the left lane and accelerating when all of a sudden the motor seemed to be “bogged down” (like you tried to launch a green light in 5th gear), and wouldn’t accelerate. It did not slow me down enough and I managed to get over to the right shoulder safely.

The front rotor (pictured) has some discoloration along the rim/edge. I have speed-bleeders, and the cap was blown off of it and brake fluid was shooting out. There was lots of steam. There is still brake dust on both rotors. The rotor pictured is, I believe, warped. When moving it onto and off the tow truck it would catch at different places.

The brake lever still does activate the brakes and stops the bike (from the time we backed if off the tow truck).

I replaced the brake pads with OEM last year. They may have about 5,000 miles on them. The fluid was last changed 4 years ago, or maybe 5.

Another issue, I’m not sure is related, but when I stopped I had the hazard lights going. After some point they were not on. They key was in the ON position, but there was no display on the dash nor dials. It’s a Shorai Lithium battery.

I don’t want to bias anyone by offering what I think, because mine is a simple guess. I hope the forum can help me figure it out. I can upload pics as requested, but may take a bit. My FJR is at the most generous Hycle’s casa-de-FJR.

Thanks to him and thanks to Bugnatr who provided his contact info to me and coordinated a response while I was standing on the shoulder of I-80

Your thoughts of whatever else I should check or consider as well as other ideas are welcome. I will answer questions for things that I've left off here. I haven't had much sleep, even though I didn't do this as an IBA ride...

thanks in advance!

 

[twistedcricket]

I can't get the image to post here using Google Photos..hopefully the link works.

CLICKY

 

[RaYzerman19]

I see only one image, brake fluid on the ground, your fork light mis-aimed and the ABS sensor wire out of its clip. I can only guess what is going on with your bike. A speedbleeder should not let fluid out unless it has been loosened, just like any bleeder screw, so was it loose? However, I suspect you have moisture accumulation in the fluid, and the heat build-up from all that braking turned the water to steam. Braking would be poor, but apparently enough to discolour your rotor (I can't tell from the picture).

Start by flush and bleeding the entire system. Remove the calipers and check your pads. Maybe you have sticking pistons in the calipers.... Check also that your rear pedal is not sticking. You have to check everything to see what else you would need to do.

 

[Brodie]

First things first, wash the splashed brake fluid off your body work.

Looks to me that your dirty brake fluid went into a hydraulic lock from the usage. Dot 3 & Dot 4 is hydroscopic - it absorbs water. If it hasn't been flushed out for several years it must have been quite dark, which means it was saturated. When you used it extensively on that long downhill grade called Interstate 80, it got hot enough to boil the water in the brake fluid, causing the caliper to grip the rotors. From the looks of it it was your front brake circuit that failed as the spray came from your left front caliper. Sounds like it's time for a brake job - flush, clean, possibly replace the overheated / warped rotor, and new brake pads. These pads have been overheated and are most likely cooked. Hopefully you can find parts easily, the nice thing is there are several salvage yards in the area (Rancho Cordova) that might be able to help you out on a rotor or two.

Good luck, the good thing is your bike is among friends, who will help get your bike straightened out.

Keep us posted.

Brodie

 

[Brodie]

As for the electrical issue, again heat was your enemy. Has your bike seen the grounding shunt (spider) recall? From the sound of it, you were bit from one of the forward spider nests, not the S4 one under the tank. I'll PM you sometime tomorrow to see if I can help you out in that area.

Brodie

 

[Bugnatr]

Glad you are safe, any freeway in CA is a crappy place to have problems and this heat wave isn't helping.

I have 2 rotors from my 04 that are in good condition (I replaced them because the rattled a bit over bumps) but not warped to my knowledge. Text me if you need them.

 

[twistedcricket]

As for the electrical issue, again heat was your enemy. Has your bike seen the grounding shunt (spider) recall? From the sound of it, you were bit from one of the forward spider nests, not the S4 one under the tank. I'll PM you sometime tomorrow to see if I can help you out in that area.
Brodie

I had the recall done. I also added the kit that was sold here.

 

[twistedcricket]

Bugnatr wrote:Glad you are safe, any freeway in CA is a crappy place to have problems and this heat wave isn't helping.

I have 2 rotors from my 04 that are in good condition (I replaced them because the rattled a bit over bumps) but not warped to my knowledge. Text me if you need them.

Are they the same for GenI and II? And, I think I've read where they're difficult to replace? If not, that would clearly be a better option than sourcing a different wheel with rotors.

 

[twistedcricket]

RaYzerman19I see only one image, brake fluid on the ground, your fork light mis-aimed and the ABS sensor wire out of its clip. I can only guess what is going on with your bike. A speedbleeder should not let fluid out unless it has been loosened, just like any bleeder screw, so was it loose? However, I suspect you have moisture accumulation in the fluid, and the heat build-up from all that braking turned the water to steam. Braking would be poor, but apparently enough to discolour your rotor (I can't tell from the picture).

Start by flush and bleeding the entire system. Remove the calipers and check your pads. Maybe you have sticking pistons in the calipers.... Check also that your rear pedal is not sticking. You have to check everything to see what else you would need to do.

That's the only picture I have right now. I'll upload more tomorrow.

The mis-aimed light is on purpose. I didn't use them for the trip, but I'll resolve that.

The ABS sensor clip is the same that holds the orange reflector and I removed those. The fork seals were leaking and they were replaced just before the trip. I didn't get to those as one reflector was broken.

The consensus so far is that I didn't flush the brake fluid properly or water somehow got in there.

 

[Bugnatr]

Bugnatr wrote:Glad you are safe, any freeway in CA is a crappy place to have problems and this heat wave isn't helping.

I have 2 rotors from my 04 that are in good condition (I replaced them because the rattled a bit over bumps) but not warped to my knowledge. Text me if you need them.

Are they the same for GenI and II? And, I think I've read where they're difficult to replace? If not, that would clearly be a better option than sourcing a different wheel with rotors.

I don't know if gen 1 and 2 are the same but yes getting the bolts out that hold the rotor to the wheel are a bugger. I had a machine shop remove mine after I was struggling with the bolts.

Someone here would know or perhaps bin of facts?

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/154948-06-12-bin-o-facts-generation-ii/

 

[twistedcricket]

RaYzerman19I see only one image, brake fluid on the ground, your fork light mis-aimed and the ABS sensor wire out of its clip. I can only guess what is going on with your bike. A speedbleeder should not let fluid out unless it has been loosened, just like any bleeder screw, so was it loose? However, I suspect you have moisture accumulation in the fluid, and the heat build-up from all that braking turned the water to steam. Braking would be poor, but apparently enough to discolour your rotor (I can't tell from the picture).

Start by flush and bleeding the entire system. Remove the calipers and check your pads. Maybe you have sticking pistons in the calipers.... Check also that your rear pedal is not sticking. You have to check everything to see what else you would need to do.

That's the only picture I have right now. I'll upload more tomorrow.

The mis-aimed light is on purpose. I didn't use them for the trip, but I'll resolve that.

The ABS sensor clip is the same that holds the orange reflector and I removed those. The fork seals were leaking and they were replaced just before the trip. I didn't get to those as one reflector was broken.

The consensus so far is that I didn't flush the brake fluid properly or water somehow got in there.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Sounds like old fluid that boiled. That clamped down on your brakes, making your bike slow, and heating them up even more in the process. A full brake job including Rotor replacement should do the trick.

 

[SkooterG]

Sounds to me like you also use your rear brake too much. Were you covering your rear brake and constantly applying some pressure? You said the front brake lever still works, right? If so, you boiled your rear brake circuit. Remember, part of the right front caliper is controlled by the brake pedal. When was the last time you changed brake fluid?

The 'bogging down' was like what HRZ said - the rear brake circuit boiling and applying the brakes.

 

[LKLD]

" I replaced the brake pads with OEM last year. They may have about 5,000 miles on them. [The fluid was last changed 4 years ago, or maybe 5.]".

New fluid would be where I would start.

 

[PhilJet09]

The consensus so far is that I didn't flush the brake fluid properly or water somehow got in there. :fool:

Yea, water "somehow" got in there over the last "4 or 5 years" that you should have been doing regular brake fluid changes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy

 

[MrZappo]

Brake fluid every 2 years. I change mine every 2 years and it is just starting to get brown.

Water does not "somehow get in there". Brake fluid is designed to absorb moisture until it is saturated. It keeps the moisture from rusting internal brake components. Which is why it should be changed every 2 (at the most 3) years.

5 years is an accident waiting to happen.

Also, you mentioned several (long braking stretches). How long? Brakes are not designed to be used on extended downhill runs. You should be in a lower gear to maintain a safe speed with brakes used to "supplement" engine braking.

With 5 year old fluid using brakes in the manner described, I'd be happy to be alive.

Get new rotors all around, likely new calipers as well as the seals are probably toast (from the heat) and definitely fresh fluid throughout.

 

[CCook82]

Lots if good help here giving sound advice. Same folks have helped me walk through the eletrical issues you have.

Good advice on the brake issues too.

 

[eflyguy]

Yeah, you're extremely lucky that the brakes did not lock. Bad things have happened to riders with poorly maintained brake systems.

That said, it's not obvious from the manual that this should be done. For example, they also say you should replace the seals in the master cylinder and calipers every two years as well, and that's really not required.

 

[twistedcricket]

Thank you all.

I think after this event I'll be paying more attention to that service interval!

The current plan is to replace the pads, rotors (front) and battery. Hycle reported that the current one is only showing 10.17v

The rear pads will be ordered as well. We'll inspect the rear rotor and replace as necessary. Hopefully a shop or dealer can get that done this week.

As it relates to braking and downhills, I think I did it right. The longer periods of braking did not involve constant pressure. It was more like I was anticipating the traffic ahead and started braking early. I pulse the brakes whenever possible. I was in 4th gear for the better part of the downhill out of Tahoe. In Sacramento I was down to 3rd and sometimes up to 4th. I think I had shifted into 5th just before things went sideways.

The calipers & seals; We'll know if they hold fluid after the change. If they leak I'll order the replacement parts for that.

And, thanks for all of the other suggestions!!