StephanM
Well-known member
@Nanahanman, how do you find the ride without the PowerCommander? Big difference?
Help with Barbarian Mod & CO setting
- Thread starter StephanM
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StephanM
Well-known member
@Donal, thanks for the tip. I never knew what those spider threads were about. I'll definitely look into it.
Mihalis fjr
Well-known member
Could someone tell the typical oem CO settings in his 03,04,05 after the barbarian mode?
Fortunately in all European models this mode works already from the factory.
But,this mode works only at idle.When you ride the bike you will not notice any difference after any adjustment in CO settings.
In my 03/abs the oem CO settings are 10,13,15,21.
Fortunately in all European models this mode works already from the factory.
But,this mode works only at idle.When you ride the bike you will not notice any difference after any adjustment in CO settings.
In my 03/abs the oem CO settings are 10,13,15,21.
kenporider
Well-known member
ionbeam
2 FUN
My '04 was similar to Mihalis readings. The values were written in my now sold Gen 1 FSM but IIRC they were like 7, 12, 14, 17.
Nanahanman
Well-known member
The question was the next line of the text you almost completely quoted and you did answer that question.So, where is the question? But, for a '06 those are typical OEM set CO numbers. There was a significant change in CO settings between '05 and '06 and it has gone unexplained why the change between Gens.
The numbers are programmed into the ECU and remain in permanent memory until changed via the CO screen. The numbers only change via the CO screen.
If your '06 was one of the ones that had the ECU changed in the recall, the replacement ECU has CO numbers totally unrelated to the bike it is now installed in. Nobody with a replacement ECU noticed or at least complained that their FJR ran poorly after the ECU swap.
Did I still miss THE ANSWER? Sometimes I'm a bit slow and I'm on my way out to the grill, meat and bottle in hand and will probably get even slower
Thanks.
I can now ride and see what adjustments may benefit me.
Nanahanman
Well-known member
Just completed the changeover yeaterday and have not had a chance to ride yet.
I left eveything in place in case I want to revert back.
Will post ride results soon.
I suspect the smoothnes map I was using had a impact on fuel economy so it will take some time to sort out if that's true or I'm full of it.
Hoping the Co adjustments will make throttle transitions a bit smoother like the PC did and give me stock fuel economy.
All in the interest of science
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Viper Pilot
Well-known member
Why are the Co values different for each cylinder?
ionbeam
2 FUN
The Smoothness map actually causes the FI to be slightly rich creating mild engine bogging which takes the harsh edge off of the OEM FI map and creates the feeling of smoothness. Along with the slight richness comes reduced fuel economy.
Nanahanman
Well-known member
As I suspected.
It will be interesting to see the difference when I set out on a 3000 km "around SUperior" trip next week.
SLK50
Well-known member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Viper Pilot" data-cid="1325893" data-time="1469016494"><p>
Why are the Co values different for each cylinder?</p></blockquote>
According to info on another forum a long time ago,
the numbers refer to throttle position, not cylinders.
1 being closed ( idle ) and 4 being wide open.
Why are the Co values different for each cylinder?</p></blockquote>
According to info on another forum a long time ago,
the numbers refer to throttle position, not cylinders.
1 being closed ( idle ) and 4 being wide open.
ionbeam
2 FUN
I'll go out on a limb and say that the CO numbers you see in the CO display are fuel trim reference numbers used to manage the amount of CO in the exhaust for emissions. CO is directly related to how rich an engine is running and is one of the core items looked at during emission testing. There are a lot of things that effect the completeness of burn in each cylinder so each cylinder has a range of adjustability.
When the CO function is enabled it is intended to have an exhaust gas analyzer sniff the exhaust stream while the CO levels are adjusted, this is the true use of the CO function, what people are mostly doing is just a wild guess.
If you were to riv-nut the head pipes (probe bungs) and then connect an EGA to the bungs here are a few notes. First, disable the AIS and bring the engine up to full operating temperature. At the head pipes the CO should be adjusted to 3%-4% with 4% being preferred. This should equate to ~1.5% CO measured exiting the muffler. When the head pipe probes are set to 4% it should allow a rich enough setting to improve driveability and still remain within EPA limits as of 2008.
It is unknown why later FJRs seem to come with all the CO numbers the same, perhaps Yamaha has the FI and combustion process under control enough that CO trimming is no longer necessary.
General idea of what the EPA looks for:
§86.410-90 Emission standards for 1990 and later model year motorcycles.
(a)(1) Exhaust emissions from 1990 and later model year gasoline-fueled, natural gas-fueled and liquefied petroleum gas-fueled motorcycles shall not exceed (compliance with these standards is optional prior to the 1997 model year for natural gas-fueled and liquefied petroleum gas-fueled motorcycles):
(i) Hydrocarbons. 5.0 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(ii) Carbon monoxide. 12 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(2) Exhaust emissions from 1990 and later model year methanol-fueled motorcycles shall not exceed:
(i) Total hydrocarbon equivalent. 5.0 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(ii) Carbon monoxide. 12 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(3) The standards set forth in paragraphs (a) (1) and (2) of this section refer to the exhaust emitted over driving schedule as set forth in subpart F and measured and calculated in accordance with those procedures.
(4) No crankcase emissions shall be discharged into the ambient atmosphere from any new motorcycle subject to this subpart.
When the CO function is enabled it is intended to have an exhaust gas analyzer sniff the exhaust stream while the CO levels are adjusted, this is the true use of the CO function, what people are mostly doing is just a wild guess.
If you were to riv-nut the head pipes (probe bungs) and then connect an EGA to the bungs here are a few notes. First, disable the AIS and bring the engine up to full operating temperature. At the head pipes the CO should be adjusted to 3%-4% with 4% being preferred. This should equate to ~1.5% CO measured exiting the muffler. When the head pipe probes are set to 4% it should allow a rich enough setting to improve driveability and still remain within EPA limits as of 2008.
It is unknown why later FJRs seem to come with all the CO numbers the same, perhaps Yamaha has the FI and combustion process under control enough that CO trimming is no longer necessary.
General idea of what the EPA looks for:
§86.410-90 Emission standards for 1990 and later model year motorcycles.
(a)(1) Exhaust emissions from 1990 and later model year gasoline-fueled, natural gas-fueled and liquefied petroleum gas-fueled motorcycles shall not exceed (compliance with these standards is optional prior to the 1997 model year for natural gas-fueled and liquefied petroleum gas-fueled motorcycles):
(i) Hydrocarbons. 5.0 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(ii) Carbon monoxide. 12 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(2) Exhaust emissions from 1990 and later model year methanol-fueled motorcycles shall not exceed:
(i) Total hydrocarbon equivalent. 5.0 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(ii) Carbon monoxide. 12 grams per vehicle kilometer.
(3) The standards set forth in paragraphs (a) (1) and (2) of this section refer to the exhaust emitted over driving schedule as set forth in subpart F and measured and calculated in accordance with those procedures.
(4) No crankcase emissions shall be discharged into the ambient atmosphere from any new motorcycle subject to this subpart.
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Mihalis fjr
Well-known member
lele
Well-known member
my old gen1 reading:
4 1 -4 5
4 1 -4 5
Viper Pilot
Well-known member
That's about what I thought. Thanks. So in general, when folks are fiddling with adjusting the so called Co values on the Diag screen it's just 'guessing' unless some sort of exhaust analyzer is used, preferably sniffing the exhaust on each header pipe. It's amazing to me how 'we' can play around with these adjustments just guesstimating and declare it 'feels' like it's running better! LOL
ionbeam
2 FUN
^^^^ Many riders on this Forum have highly sensitive Butt Dynos which can measure CO, TBS, MPG, Amps and suspension settings out to 3 decimal places They are also believers, if you believe hard enough it makes it true.
They are also believers, if you believe hard enough it makes it true.
Nanahanman
Well-known member
It's my understanding that the original Barbarian Mod was done in a shop, on a dyno under controlled conditions and the 7 step adjustment was not a "guess"
ionbeam
2 FUN
It was Tom Barber (the Barbarian in the Barbarian Jumper) that did the writeup, it was Fastwally that did the rivnut procedure.
The results for HIS SPECIFIC '03 which isn't like later FJR FI systems was played with between 5 & 7 bumps of CO for each cylinder. This brought the CO levels on HIS FJR right up to the CO limit allowed for motorcycles and after unhooking his FJR from the EGA and dyno, Fastwally's butt dyno said that his FJR ran better and had a side effect of an additional 4 hp. The CO increase of 7 was to bring Fastwally's '03 up to 4% CO at the head pipes and 1.5% at the tail pipe.
The results for HIS SPECIFIC '03 which isn't like later FJR FI systems was played with between 5 & 7 bumps of CO for each cylinder. This brought the CO levels on HIS FJR right up to the CO limit allowed for motorcycles and after unhooking his FJR from the EGA and dyno, Fastwally's butt dyno said that his FJR ran better and had a side effect of an additional 4 hp. The CO increase of 7 was to bring Fastwally's '03 up to 4% CO at the head pipes and 1.5% at the tail pipe.
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I guess the theory behind the +7 across the board is that since (or if) all 4 cylinders have been adjusted for the same CO reading on an EGA, then bumping them all up the same amount will increase the richness of the mixture by an equivalent amount from that calibrated level.
I tried it on my '05 way back in 2006. It didn't accomplish what I wanted it to, which was to smooth out the lean surging during cruise conditions. So I returned it to the factory numbers and installed a PCIII and borrowed a custom dyno map for an essentially stock bike to smooth that out.
The reason the CO adjustment wasn't effective for that symptom is that it affects only at idle and just above, and is increasingly less important as rpms and throttle opening increases.
I tried it on my '05 way back in 2006. It didn't accomplish what I wanted it to, which was to smooth out the lean surging during cruise conditions. So I returned it to the factory numbers and installed a PCIII and borrowed a custom dyno map for an essentially stock bike to smooth that out.
The reason the CO adjustment wasn't effective for that symptom is that it affects only at idle and just above, and is increasingly less important as rpms and throttle opening increases.
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ionbeam
2 FUN
Since the CO change was both free and reversible I gave it a try with my '04. I bumped the CO by the hallowed 7 on all cylinders. My FJR immediately said -- I'VE BEEN POISONED!!!!!!! Not only did it not run well, gas mileage plunged too. After fiddling with the settings and not getting any satisfaction I returned everything back to stock and installed a very not free PC III and got the results I was looking for.
