How Do I Tell 'Em?

[flapsup]

How I got there isn't important, but I ended up going on a group ride with about 8 guys in a cruiser club. Some of these guys are my friends and I fear for them greatly.

We met Sunday morning in a grocery store parking lot and the ride captain announced the destination and route, The club president announced that since this was an official group ride, that we were to ride two abreast, in the left lane, 7 to 10 over. His justification for the left lane was that most of this was divided four lane US highway, and he could see critters better and have more reaction time from the left lane. I decided that I would go to the back of the pack. Then Mr Prez announced that he would ride drag and keep any stragglers herded up.

We left the parking lot, pulled into traffic and headed out of town. As we passed the city limits sign, the ride captain moved to the left lane, they all paired up and packed in tight. And I mean like two bike lengths of spacing, and I'm getting tailgated by the pres.

My thoughts were full of chain reaction crashes caused by something as insignificant as swerving for a possum carcass or an armadillo as the guys were packed in so tightly. I put up with it for about a half a mile, signalled to a friend that I was heading home, pulled into the right lane, passed the herd and took the first turn around I could find.

As I turned around and accelerated away, I decided I would never ride with these guys again because they did not realize how completely brain dead dangerous their riding style was and how recklessly irresponsible their president was by forcing them into this formation.

I am not a safety nazi, but five bikes and a lot of miles later, I know the reasons why I was uncomfortable. I regret that I may have put a friend's standing in the club in jeopardy since I was there at his invitation, but dammit, this was dangerous,

FWIW, I've done SFO a couple of times and EOM once, and I have never seen this type of behavior in my fellow forumites. Individually, these are some pretty bright guys and all are responsible citizens, but they have been caught up in this cruiser club mystique.

So here are my questions:

How do I tell them their president is misguided and is going to get someone killed?

Is anyone aware of a publication that explains the reasons for riding in a staggered formation with adequate spacing as oppposed to riding two abreast and tailgating each other?

Thanks for listening!

 

[FJRay]

People that follow leaders like that are as bad as the leader and may not understand that you are trying to help. Tell your friend once and hope it works. Ride your own ride.

 

[graler]

Here is a link to the AMA site regarding group rides:

https://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/riding/street/resources/groupriding.aspx

My personal opinion: This group doesn't want to hear from an outsider. This needs to come from within the group or someone the group respects. I am betting that particular group could be much larger. There have been others in the past that have shown up to ride, were forced into an uncomfortable position have done the same thing you did. They have separated and moved on.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Wow. You were definitely put in a bad position...

...here's hoping your friend and the club members make it out alive.

Oh, and if I ever come up upon this group while they are blocking traffic, they get the "Timmy" salute from me as I pass on the right.

 

[flapsup]

Grater,

Thanks, that was exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

Flapsup

 

[ionbeam]

I see this kind of group riding all the time. We see groups with this kind of formation that sometimes have over 100 bikes at a time.

Communication is a two way event, you have a speaker and a listener. I suspect that if you tried to tell them anything it would be one way -- no listener on the other end.

 

[lonerider]

I'm glad you had the sense to bail out of a dangerous situation. I had a similar experience; group leader said I was leaving too much space between myself and the rider ahead of me. I told him I'd meet him and the rest of the group at the destination- I've seen too many mufflers and chunks of firewood lying in the center of my lane to tailgate anyone. Another reason to ride alone, IMHO.

 

[BkerChuck]

This is a large part of why my wife and I no longer participate in group rides. If I wish to attend a function with one of these groups I'll usually have some excuse why I can't make their scheduled departure time and then meet them at the destination. Not only is their riding style unsafe it just furthers the public perception of motorcyclists as unsafe. I've witnessed this ort of thing many times and have been forced to pass in the right lane to get around groups like these. You did the right thing by bailing on the ride. I hope it doesn't take your friend too long to recognize this for what it is.

 

[MEM]

How do I tell them their president is misguided and is going to get someone killed?

Seriously?

There's a diplomatic way to point out "I'm not comfortable riding ..." "Ummm...this is NOT a safe way to ride and I'm not interested in participating"

And since it's an issue of life & limb, it shouldn't take huge nougies to do it.

 

[flapsup]

How do I tell them their president is misguided and is going to get someone killed?

Seriously?

There's a diplomatic way to point out "I'm not comfortable riding ..." "Ummm...this is NOT a safe way to ride and I'm not interested in participating"

And since it's an issue of life & limb, it shouldn't take huge nougies to do it.

I was just searching for a catchy tag line when I called it "How Do I Tell 'Em". What I was looking for, and got thanks to Grater, was a publication from a recognized safety establishment (AMA, MSF, DOT, NTSB, etc) that would have some information about the why and why not, as opposed to the do and do not, of formation riding. I am hopeful that logic and education will overcome whatever it is that they are infected with.

 

[Geezer]

I have seen this many times as well. Not only on divided highways, but also on two lane roads that would be fun to ride in a better formation. My brother rides a cruiser and the few times he participated in group rides he witnessed several bikers crashing into each other. He no longer rides with a group.

In your case, I don't know the people involved so I can't say how best to talk to them, but I agree with your goal of educating them before something bad happens.

Also, I don't understand how riding in tight formation can be any fun at all. It only makes sense in town in traffic where you don't want to take up any more road than necessary, and even then the formation can not be too tight or regimented. Maybe you can show your friend how much more fun it can be to ride his own ride.

 

[mdisher]

How do I tell them their president is misguided and is going to get someone killed?

Seriously?

There's a diplomatic way to point out "I'm not comfortable riding ..." "Ummm...this is NOT a safe way to ride and I'm not interested in participating"

And since it's an issue of life & limb, it shouldn't take huge nougies to do it.

I was just searching for a catchy tag line when I called it "How Do I Tell 'Em". What I was looking for, and got thanks to Grater, was a publication from a recognized safety establishment (AMA, MSF, DOT, NTSB, etc) that would have some information about the why and why not, as opposed to the do and do not, of formation riding. I am hopeful that logic and education will overcome whatever it is that they are infected with.

I wish you luck in communicating this, but I highly suspect it will fall on deaf ears regardless of where your data is coming from.

They are usually of the mindset that a helmet is going to do more harm than good "It'll break your damn neck, don't you know any better?"

"Loud Pipes save lives, and don't you know that we're more likely to be seen/heard riding in this big stupid pack than alone."

It's pretty clear to me that you don't fit their mold.

-MD

 

[marcusorelius]

Tell em ya dropped out "cause we rode 3 miles & hadn't stopped at a bar yet, that ain't how I roll"

 

[gixxerjasen]

We met Sunday morning in a grocery store parking lot and the ride captain announced the destination and route, The club president announced that since this was an official group ride, that we were to ride two abreast, in the left lane, 7 to 10 over.

Yea, you lost me on those bolded words. I'd have likely not ridden with the group once those titles were mentioned. I bet they all wear vests too. I've no problem riding with cruisers but it seems the more organized a group is the worse it is to ride with. No thanks.

 

[rogdeb]

How I got there isn't important, but I ended up going on a group ride with about 8 guys in a cruiser club. Some of these guys are my friends and I fear for them greatly.
We met Sunday morning in a grocery store parking lot and the ride captain announced the destination and route, The club president announced that since this was an official group ride, that we were to ride two abreast, in the left lane, 7 to 10 over. His justification for the left lane was that most of this was divided four lane US highway, and he could see critters better and have more reaction time from the left lane. I decided that I would go to the back of the pack. Then Mr Prez announced that he would ride drag and keep any stragglers herded up.

We left the parking lot, pulled into traffic and headed out of town. As we passed the city limits sign, the ride captain moved to the left lane, they all paired up and packed in tight. And I mean like two bike lengths of spacing, and I'm getting tailgated by the pres.

My thoughts were full of chain reaction crashes caused by something as insignificant as swerving for a possum carcass or an armadillo as the guys were packed in so tightly. I put up with it for about a half a mile, signalled to a friend that I was heading home, pulled into the right lane, passed the herd and took the first turn around I could find.

As I turned around and accelerated away, I decided I would never ride with these guys again because they did not realize how completely brain dead dangerous their riding style was and how recklessly irresponsible their president was by forcing them into this formation.

I am not a safety nazi, but five bikes and a lot of miles later, I know the reasons why I was uncomfortable. I regret that I may have put a friend's standing in the club in jeopardy since I was there at his invitation, but dammit, this was dangerous,

FWIW, I've done SFO a couple of times and EOM once, and I have never seen this type of behavior in my fellow forumites. Individually, these are some pretty bright guys and all are responsible citizens, but they have been caught up in this cruiser club mystique.

So here are my questions:

How do I tell them their president is misguided and is going to get someone killed?

Is anyone aware of a publication that explains the reasons for riding in a staggered formation with adequate spacing as oppposed to riding two abreast and tailgating each other?

Thanks for listening!

E-mail your friend a link to this thread as well as showing him the publication from Graler

 

[majicmaker]

I guess it's a personality thing. I'd have absolutely No problem pointing that out to the "Ride Captain" and waving goodbye!

 

[NMRoadRunner]

WTF? you all passed by 3 prefectly good drinking holes and ain't stopped at a one of em. I'm going back, anybody with me? But seriously, Went down to Tejas last week and rode back amongst all the HD posers headed to Sturgis. Rolling roadblocks in the left lane, and they would strech out for a 1/2 mile, with the sag wagons behind them. Pissed of cagers swerving into the right lane trying to pass, cutting off trucks and farm equipment, and 104 degrees on top of that. It's my fault for going then, I forgot it was Sturgis week. Hated it. Did eat some tasty BBQ while there.

 

[exskibum]

I believe you'll need to speak their language, so you might check with Bust for the best way to say it, but it's something like "Baaaaa. Baa. Baaaa baaaa baah!" Means something like "not on (or up) my ***, you don't." Setting might also help, and "Easy Rider" included imagery that might be helpful, . . . but maybe say what you have to say to the Byrds' "Wasn't Born to Follow" from the sound track.

Seriously, that is just poseur stupid. If I'm looking for a leader to follow, it certainly won't be a narcissist who lacks common sense and insists on enforcing his ignorant directives. It's not just that it's dangerous, but it's not any fun to turn the experience of actually riding the road into one of slavish fealty to someone else's *** in a tight parade formation. And what the **** is an "official group ride"?

Baaa baaa baaa!!!!

Obviously, you made the right choice once you saw what kind of circus you'd joined. I wouldn't be the least bit apologetic for bailing.

 

[Greg 03]

The only time I ride two abreast is with one of my fellow motor officers and we were trained specifically to do so and it requires HOURS of practice. I'm not going to give specifics of how we practice the technique because I don't want anyone to try it. But, it's done in a huge empty parking lot at slow speed and with LOTS of safety checks in place. Even at that some of the guys I still won't ride this way with. I don't go on any group rides in the area and there are only a few of the other guys from "the office" I will even ride out of town with. Since most of my riding on days off tends to be down to NW Arkansas I see a lot of large groups on the road. I can honestly say that the cruiser crowds (especially Harley) tend to be the ones with the least amount of proper riding gear and they also tend to be the ones least likely to be wearing helmets. If they are wearing helmets it's usually some variation of the tea cup type usually with a ball cap underneath it flipped around backwards. I recently had one of my riding friends ask someone else I hadn't ridden with before to go along. Within two hours I had decided I would never be riding with that tool again. Yes, I can probably be considered a "riding snob" but I take it very seriously. I've had to work WAY too many motorcycle crashes, including fatalities, to be any other way. I could rant on about this particular topic for days but I assume that most of the riders on this forum pretty much hold the same theories as myself anyway so I won't preach to the choir.

Good decision flapsup... NEVER apologize for bowing out if you're not comfortable with the way others are riding!