Yikes! Sorry to hear about all the damage. Just remember, you only need to do the next step (great writeup by hppants) and eventually life will be back to normal.
Hurricane Michael, a personal view...
- Thread starter wfooshee
- Start date
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Damn Walt. Not even sure what to say. What I do know is, Pants sounds like he knows what he's talking about. I'd follow that advice. Hope you're whole again soon man!
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Progress report. I've got water mitigation people in the house, ripping up carpet, packing up the kitchen getting ready to demo it. They say I have category 3 water damage, which is apparently as bad as it gets. They're even going to rip up the sheet flooring, which I would probably not have done if I were DYI-ing this. (This is why you don't DIY this kind of recovery!) House got hot today because the A/C coil froze over, indicative of a loose or missing filter allowing dust to coat the intake side. (It's happened before, and I know how to clean it, but you have to shut it off and wait for the ice to melt. Sometimes I light the gas to the heater and run that for a half hour or so, but the flue pipe is broken off at the roof, and the attic vent pipe fell in with the ceiling of the HVAC closet, so I'm thinking that lighting the gas is not a Good Idea.) Anyway, will be cleaning the coil and checking the filter condition first thing in the morning. It probably got soaked and ruined, and I can't believe I didn't examine it already.
I have a mold assessor coming Friday, first available schedule. I have mold in several rooms already, all along the west wall of the ktichen/dining area (the back of the house and the worst roof damage,) both bathrooms, and the laundry room. What visible mold I had already, some so heavy it was fuzzy at the surface, we sprayed with vinegar/hydrogen peroxide solution to try to mitigate. That seems to have helped, those areas are not any worse than they were, and they're not fuzzy any more, either.
I have loss of use coverage, and the desk adjuster in St. Petersburg tried to tell me that "unlivable" meant no running water and unable to cook. I'm not sure how being unable to breathe safely doesn't fit that criteria, so that's where the mold guy comes in.
Power is back on, as is water, although I have no hot water. Same issue, water heater is gas, and the flue for the heater is in the back yard. the part above the roof broke off, and the part below the roof came down with the garage ceiling, so I threw it out, after photographing the wreckage. Again, lighting the gas seems a Bad Idea...
The boil-water requirement was lifted today, so a few minutes of running the taps should have safe water entering the house. Not gonna turn on the icemaker because I'm not sure where the fridge is going to end up as the kitchen demo begins and progresses.
Still camping at work. We are not open in the office, although those of us still in town are supporting customers as best we can. We have no Internet at the office, nor do most of our customers have Internet. We are using our phones for Internet access, and the networks here are saturated; I'm seeing LTE speeds between 750 kbit/s to 1.7 mbit/s, when we're used to at least 45 mbit/s on the phones.
As you may have seen in the news, Verizon was wiped out here. AT&T stayed up, and even gave away free prepaids to Verizon customers, or SIMM cards to those with compatible phones. May be something there about buried fiber vs strung-on-poles fiber... Verizon has been back up and reliable for 2 or 3 days, now, but BOTH networks are experiencing the speeds I mentioned just now. I'm not sure Verizon isn't up by simply buying bandwidth from AT&T. I know that Verizon towers are down, I've seen the pictures, and they've brought in several of those truck/generator towers, but I don't know how those connect to anything.
Verizon is tossing the "access charge" portion of their bill for all customers for three months. I assume that means the service is free, but you're still paying for your phone's financing during that time. There was also an announcement today on the local newspaper's website that Verizon has stated that since they have to rebuild from scratch here, they are going to build it 5G. (No sense building it 4G and having a do-ever in the next year or so... Panama City is now the 5th announced 5G city for Verizon. There was Los Angeles, Houston, Indianapolis, and Sacramento. Now add Panama City. Woot woot! We gon' need new fones, y'all!
I went by the house today, and the crew got the bedroom cleaned out and the furniture moved into other rooms. The furniture is not holding up well, with venner damage and some swollen drawer-fronts. The contents, however, are fine!! I was able to grab some socks, underwear, t-shirts, etc. My desk drawers were OK, too. The desk may fair just fine... it's an antique solid oak teacher's desk that my dad refinished with polyurethane when I was in high school. The drawer contents of that were OK, too, and I retrieved my passport along with some other items from that. My closet seems OK. I grabbed some shirts, jackets, and stuff there. The shelves got wet, from water following the electrical wires into the lamps on the closet ceilings. That happened pretty much all over the house, with lamp globes ending up fuul of water. Only one ceiling fan so fare has turned out unsalvagable, and the range hood fan doesn't work although the lights work. (The range hood wat a water pipe into the kitchen, for sure.) The vent fans in both bathrooms just simply dumped water in to the bathrooms, and the master bath vent is directly over the toilet, so my nice comfy oak toilet seat is all green and fuzzy, now.
Gotten a lot of packing done, kinda just like moving. Just about all of the electronics were OK, and all are packed. Unfortunately, when I buy a piece of electronics, it's original box goes into the attic for use if the component needs to be shipped, or for moving day, should such a day occur again. Amazingly, only ONE of those boxes was unusable! Some needed an awful lot of tape to hold them safely, and I wouldn't trust most of them to UPS, but for my own packing and storage, I'm OK. I will need to keep them dry, though, and the cardboard did get wet, and I don't want to open them up in a few weeks and find all my stuff fuzzy. To that end, they are stacked in the same room one of the big dryers is running in right now.
I'm having to spend more time at work instead of at the house than I would like, but we have a couple of large customers who are major health service providers, including the largest radiology firm in the area. Their business office and radiologist reading rooms are uninhabitable, so today was spent moving radiology reading stations to unused space in their admin building. Even that building may need to be evacuated, as there is visible ceiling damage in all the rooms. We got a large generator hooked up to them the day after, though, so that building has had power and air conditioning (and working landlines!) the entire time. One of the cooling units for the server room was blown away, and the other seems less capable than it was, so we found the server room hovering at about 95 degrees two days after the storm. We went through a huge shutdown, 30+ servers in a particular order, which dropped both the heat output in that room, and the draw on the generator. (Generator output dropped over 40%!!) Over the past few days, we've brought up servers as needed for specific tasks, one of which was payroll. With no Internet, we tethered phones to a server and two computers so the ladies could do their stuff and upload checks to the banks.
So recovery is begun. The beaches areas are practically back to normal. What a difference ten miles makes! In town, One of the Publix stores has been open and is getting pretty much normal service now. It's the ONLY grocery store this side of the bridge over St. Andrews Bay, though. The Home Depot is open, and the Lowe's is working out of a tent in the parking lot. Their storefront is gone, and what they could salvage, and what they've been trucking in, is in the tent. Also, Walmart is open, but almost always at maximum occupancy, with a line outside waiting to get in. Did you even know that there was a maximum occupancy number for WalMart?!?! Gas stations are opening up and lines at the stations are shorter. Again, across the bridge on the beaches side, it's almost back to normal, just drive up to a pump, but gas looks to be a little over a dime a gallon higher over there. Most restaurants are still closed, other than some fast food places with partial menus and no fountain drinks. That should change with the boil-water notice lifting, although they have some flushing and filter-changing to do, I'm sure.
Weather has been amazing. Of course, the two days immediately following were absolutely gorgeous, other than not being able to get anywhere for trees and lines blocking the roads, and the incessant noise of chain saws running. Big storms like this take everything weather-wise with them! It got hot for a couple of days, though, up into the 90s again, and that was before power came back, so no A/C except while you were driving somewhere. Then we had a mild cold front (no weather with it) and it cooled of again. It's only rained once, and that for only about 10 or 15 minutes. This morning it sprinkled, but not enough to even wet the pavement, much less flow into the gutters.
I will say that whatever these out-of-town guys use to get around where they need to be to do their work, it's amazing. No data on the cell phones, so Google Maps and GPS just shows a blank screen unless you had the forethought to download the maps prior to arrival. Street signs are missing, and after dark, there are NO landmarks ANYWHERE! You can see what your headlights show, and you have NO IDEA where you are, even on the biggest main streets of town! You're passing the mall, but you can't see the mall. You don't know how many traffic lights you've been through, because there aren't any traffic lights, just a series of giant, confusing, 4-way stops, which work so well with four lanes on each side! All of that is improving now, as they get lights working (almost 100% now, at least the western side of town,) and power comes back so the buildings along the street are visible.
I have a mold assessor coming Friday, first available schedule. I have mold in several rooms already, all along the west wall of the ktichen/dining area (the back of the house and the worst roof damage,) both bathrooms, and the laundry room. What visible mold I had already, some so heavy it was fuzzy at the surface, we sprayed with vinegar/hydrogen peroxide solution to try to mitigate. That seems to have helped, those areas are not any worse than they were, and they're not fuzzy any more, either.
I have loss of use coverage, and the desk adjuster in St. Petersburg tried to tell me that "unlivable" meant no running water and unable to cook. I'm not sure how being unable to breathe safely doesn't fit that criteria, so that's where the mold guy comes in.
Power is back on, as is water, although I have no hot water. Same issue, water heater is gas, and the flue for the heater is in the back yard. the part above the roof broke off, and the part below the roof came down with the garage ceiling, so I threw it out, after photographing the wreckage. Again, lighting the gas seems a Bad Idea...
The boil-water requirement was lifted today, so a few minutes of running the taps should have safe water entering the house. Not gonna turn on the icemaker because I'm not sure where the fridge is going to end up as the kitchen demo begins and progresses.
Still camping at work. We are not open in the office, although those of us still in town are supporting customers as best we can. We have no Internet at the office, nor do most of our customers have Internet. We are using our phones for Internet access, and the networks here are saturated; I'm seeing LTE speeds between 750 kbit/s to 1.7 mbit/s, when we're used to at least 45 mbit/s on the phones.
As you may have seen in the news, Verizon was wiped out here. AT&T stayed up, and even gave away free prepaids to Verizon customers, or SIMM cards to those with compatible phones. May be something there about buried fiber vs strung-on-poles fiber... Verizon has been back up and reliable for 2 or 3 days, now, but BOTH networks are experiencing the speeds I mentioned just now. I'm not sure Verizon isn't up by simply buying bandwidth from AT&T. I know that Verizon towers are down, I've seen the pictures, and they've brought in several of those truck/generator towers, but I don't know how those connect to anything.
Verizon is tossing the "access charge" portion of their bill for all customers for three months. I assume that means the service is free, but you're still paying for your phone's financing during that time. There was also an announcement today on the local newspaper's website that Verizon has stated that since they have to rebuild from scratch here, they are going to build it 5G. (No sense building it 4G and having a do-ever in the next year or so... Panama City is now the 5th announced 5G city for Verizon. There was Los Angeles, Houston, Indianapolis, and Sacramento. Now add Panama City. Woot woot! We gon' need new fones, y'all!
I went by the house today, and the crew got the bedroom cleaned out and the furniture moved into other rooms. The furniture is not holding up well, with venner damage and some swollen drawer-fronts. The contents, however, are fine!! I was able to grab some socks, underwear, t-shirts, etc. My desk drawers were OK, too. The desk may fair just fine... it's an antique solid oak teacher's desk that my dad refinished with polyurethane when I was in high school. The drawer contents of that were OK, too, and I retrieved my passport along with some other items from that. My closet seems OK. I grabbed some shirts, jackets, and stuff there. The shelves got wet, from water following the electrical wires into the lamps on the closet ceilings. That happened pretty much all over the house, with lamp globes ending up fuul of water. Only one ceiling fan so fare has turned out unsalvagable, and the range hood fan doesn't work although the lights work. (The range hood wat a water pipe into the kitchen, for sure.) The vent fans in both bathrooms just simply dumped water in to the bathrooms, and the master bath vent is directly over the toilet, so my nice comfy oak toilet seat is all green and fuzzy, now.
Gotten a lot of packing done, kinda just like moving. Just about all of the electronics were OK, and all are packed. Unfortunately, when I buy a piece of electronics, it's original box goes into the attic for use if the component needs to be shipped, or for moving day, should such a day occur again. Amazingly, only ONE of those boxes was unusable! Some needed an awful lot of tape to hold them safely, and I wouldn't trust most of them to UPS, but for my own packing and storage, I'm OK. I will need to keep them dry, though, and the cardboard did get wet, and I don't want to open them up in a few weeks and find all my stuff fuzzy. To that end, they are stacked in the same room one of the big dryers is running in right now.
I'm having to spend more time at work instead of at the house than I would like, but we have a couple of large customers who are major health service providers, including the largest radiology firm in the area. Their business office and radiologist reading rooms are uninhabitable, so today was spent moving radiology reading stations to unused space in their admin building. Even that building may need to be evacuated, as there is visible ceiling damage in all the rooms. We got a large generator hooked up to them the day after, though, so that building has had power and air conditioning (and working landlines!) the entire time. One of the cooling units for the server room was blown away, and the other seems less capable than it was, so we found the server room hovering at about 95 degrees two days after the storm. We went through a huge shutdown, 30+ servers in a particular order, which dropped both the heat output in that room, and the draw on the generator. (Generator output dropped over 40%!!) Over the past few days, we've brought up servers as needed for specific tasks, one of which was payroll. With no Internet, we tethered phones to a server and two computers so the ladies could do their stuff and upload checks to the banks.
So recovery is begun. The beaches areas are practically back to normal. What a difference ten miles makes! In town, One of the Publix stores has been open and is getting pretty much normal service now. It's the ONLY grocery store this side of the bridge over St. Andrews Bay, though. The Home Depot is open, and the Lowe's is working out of a tent in the parking lot. Their storefront is gone, and what they could salvage, and what they've been trucking in, is in the tent. Also, Walmart is open, but almost always at maximum occupancy, with a line outside waiting to get in. Did you even know that there was a maximum occupancy number for WalMart?!?! Gas stations are opening up and lines at the stations are shorter. Again, across the bridge on the beaches side, it's almost back to normal, just drive up to a pump, but gas looks to be a little over a dime a gallon higher over there. Most restaurants are still closed, other than some fast food places with partial menus and no fountain drinks. That should change with the boil-water notice lifting, although they have some flushing and filter-changing to do, I'm sure.
Weather has been amazing. Of course, the two days immediately following were absolutely gorgeous, other than not being able to get anywhere for trees and lines blocking the roads, and the incessant noise of chain saws running. Big storms like this take everything weather-wise with them! It got hot for a couple of days, though, up into the 90s again, and that was before power came back, so no A/C except while you were driving somewhere. Then we had a mild cold front (no weather with it) and it cooled of again. It's only rained once, and that for only about 10 or 15 minutes. This morning it sprinkled, but not enough to even wet the pavement, much less flow into the gutters.
I will say that whatever these out-of-town guys use to get around where they need to be to do their work, it's amazing. No data on the cell phones, so Google Maps and GPS just shows a blank screen unless you had the forethought to download the maps prior to arrival. Street signs are missing, and after dark, there are NO landmarks ANYWHERE! You can see what your headlights show, and you have NO IDEA where you are, even on the biggest main streets of town! You're passing the mall, but you can't see the mall. You don't know how many traffic lights you've been through, because there aren't any traffic lights, just a series of giant, confusing, 4-way stops, which work so well with four lanes on each side! All of that is improving now, as they get lights working (almost 100% now, at least the western side of town,) and power comes back so the buildings along the street are visible.
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Bugnatr
Well-known member
Sounds like everyday it's getting a little better. Hang in there and remember it could have been worse. We deal with catastrophic fires, nothing ...absolutely nothing is left of your home or possessions after a fire rips through your neighborhood. Keep us posted on the progress!
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hppants
Well-known member
Good to read you are on your way. Remember - marathon, not a sprint.
1. If there was standing water on your flooring, especially the carpeted sections, then it wicked up your surrounding walls and that includes the sheetrock and the insulation inside of it. If the moisture meter shows it only wicked up an inch or so (below the level of the baseboards), then the drying contractor can remove the baseboard, drill holes in the sheetrock behind the baseboard (above the toe board) and pump air into the wall cavity and dry it sufficiently. Once the moistened sheetrock gets to about 6 inches high, then they have to cut the sheetrock out and remove the saturated insulation. Remember, sheetrock and batten insulation are sponges - and they have got to be dry or you will have a mold problem you cannot imagine.
2. Make sure the drying contractor can provide you with a report indicating the moisture readings taken throughout your house. Again, with the HVAC running properly, you have got to have less than 10% over a 48 hour period before you close the walls.
3. Make sure the contractor (either drying contractor or rebuilding contractor) applies a fungicide to the wall cavities that were opened BEFORE they are closed up.
4. Laws vary between States and/or Counties (Parishes in my case), but it is very likely that you will have to have a building permit before you can rebuild, and that the authority having jurisdiction over that permit must inspect your wall cavities before allowing you to close them up. Get educated on this NOW - do not rely on your contractor, who is very likely flying in from somewhere else and doesn't know the local laws. Trust me - you can waste thousands of dollars on a mistake here - they will make you tear it back down and your insurance won't pay to do it twice.
5. ^^^^^ this lends credibility to picking a contractor that your insurance has pre-approved and vetted. But per my previous post, do NOT trust anyone. Make the contractor show you his/her contractor's license (valid for where he is working), insurance certificate, and (if required) a copy of his performance and/or bid bond.
6. An evaporator coil freezing over could be from what you describe, but it could also be from about a dozen other things. And the cause could be coincidental and not related to the insurable loss. Never the less, I'd go with hoping for the benefit of the doubt, and solicit with my insurance adjuster to hire an HVAC contractor to look at it.
7. Your drying contractor will also bring in fans and dehumidifiers to help with the process. Get him to show you how they work, and the care and feeding of them. He will likely only show at your house once a day (or every 2 days), and you can do some simple things in his absence to ensure the process is working a efficiently as it can.
8. There is a mold exclusion clause in your homeowners policy, but I believe the loss of use clause should allow you to apply it if mold is in the house, and the mold was caused by an insurable loss. In other words, if things were normal (no storm) and mold was just discovered in your house from a leaking pipe, then you are SOL. But in this case, I think you have a claim. Again - get your policy terms and conditions and declarations and read it backwards and forwards. Your adjuster is VERY likely someone that was hired by your underwriter for JUST this storm and he/she likely doesn't know all of the nuances of your policy. For anything, if you are questioning, do NOT be shy about asking your adjuster for an underwriter's opinion.
9. Even electronics that appear to be fine likely have moisture droplets on them from being exposed to unairconditioned environments for prolonged periods of time. The best way to deal with this is to run them in a climate controlled environment - the heat from running them will burn off any residual moisture. If it were me, I'd actually pull off the cover for my computer and run some air across it.
10. Immersing yourself in work (or anything other than your house) is therapeutic, I believe. Help others when you can (as in your work experiences). it will give you a sense of accomplishment and pride in the fact that you can be useful in the overall process. Survivors guilt is a very real thing, and even though you have experienced loss, I'm sure you are well aware of others (and even know many) that have lost everything. Do what you can to help others, and when others sincerely offer to help you, accept that help graciously and without any guilt. You are a few weeks into this - the adrenaline is waning and now the mental part of recovery is setting in. Set realistic short and long term goals. Jot them down on a note pad and journal your progress briefly every day. Keep this with your laundry list of daily items to accomplish. Trust me - this is not only a good mgmt tool, but on days when you are feeling helpless and down, you can look at your journal, feel a sense of what you have accomplished, and it will inspire you to push on.
You doing fine, my friend. I am only a PM or a phone call away - I'm available to help you with anything you might need, including someone to vent to.
1. If there was standing water on your flooring, especially the carpeted sections, then it wicked up your surrounding walls and that includes the sheetrock and the insulation inside of it. If the moisture meter shows it only wicked up an inch or so (below the level of the baseboards), then the drying contractor can remove the baseboard, drill holes in the sheetrock behind the baseboard (above the toe board) and pump air into the wall cavity and dry it sufficiently. Once the moistened sheetrock gets to about 6 inches high, then they have to cut the sheetrock out and remove the saturated insulation. Remember, sheetrock and batten insulation are sponges - and they have got to be dry or you will have a mold problem you cannot imagine.
2. Make sure the drying contractor can provide you with a report indicating the moisture readings taken throughout your house. Again, with the HVAC running properly, you have got to have less than 10% over a 48 hour period before you close the walls.
3. Make sure the contractor (either drying contractor or rebuilding contractor) applies a fungicide to the wall cavities that were opened BEFORE they are closed up.
4. Laws vary between States and/or Counties (Parishes in my case), but it is very likely that you will have to have a building permit before you can rebuild, and that the authority having jurisdiction over that permit must inspect your wall cavities before allowing you to close them up. Get educated on this NOW - do not rely on your contractor, who is very likely flying in from somewhere else and doesn't know the local laws. Trust me - you can waste thousands of dollars on a mistake here - they will make you tear it back down and your insurance won't pay to do it twice.
5. ^^^^^ this lends credibility to picking a contractor that your insurance has pre-approved and vetted. But per my previous post, do NOT trust anyone. Make the contractor show you his/her contractor's license (valid for where he is working), insurance certificate, and (if required) a copy of his performance and/or bid bond.
6. An evaporator coil freezing over could be from what you describe, but it could also be from about a dozen other things. And the cause could be coincidental and not related to the insurable loss. Never the less, I'd go with hoping for the benefit of the doubt, and solicit with my insurance adjuster to hire an HVAC contractor to look at it.
7. Your drying contractor will also bring in fans and dehumidifiers to help with the process. Get him to show you how they work, and the care and feeding of them. He will likely only show at your house once a day (or every 2 days), and you can do some simple things in his absence to ensure the process is working a efficiently as it can.
8. There is a mold exclusion clause in your homeowners policy, but I believe the loss of use clause should allow you to apply it if mold is in the house, and the mold was caused by an insurable loss. In other words, if things were normal (no storm) and mold was just discovered in your house from a leaking pipe, then you are SOL. But in this case, I think you have a claim. Again - get your policy terms and conditions and declarations and read it backwards and forwards. Your adjuster is VERY likely someone that was hired by your underwriter for JUST this storm and he/she likely doesn't know all of the nuances of your policy. For anything, if you are questioning, do NOT be shy about asking your adjuster for an underwriter's opinion.
9. Even electronics that appear to be fine likely have moisture droplets on them from being exposed to unairconditioned environments for prolonged periods of time. The best way to deal with this is to run them in a climate controlled environment - the heat from running them will burn off any residual moisture. If it were me, I'd actually pull off the cover for my computer and run some air across it.
10. Immersing yourself in work (or anything other than your house) is therapeutic, I believe. Help others when you can (as in your work experiences). it will give you a sense of accomplishment and pride in the fact that you can be useful in the overall process. Survivors guilt is a very real thing, and even though you have experienced loss, I'm sure you are well aware of others (and even know many) that have lost everything. Do what you can to help others, and when others sincerely offer to help you, accept that help graciously and without any guilt. You are a few weeks into this - the adrenaline is waning and now the mental part of recovery is setting in. Set realistic short and long term goals. Jot them down on a note pad and journal your progress briefly every day. Keep this with your laundry list of daily items to accomplish. Trust me - this is not only a good mgmt tool, but on days when you are feeling helpless and down, you can look at your journal, feel a sense of what you have accomplished, and it will inspire you to push on.
You doing fine, my friend. I am only a PM or a phone call away - I'm available to help you with anything you might need, including someone to vent to.
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Mold assessor came today, and after she consulted with the drying contractor, they are taking ALL of the drywall out. Some rooms had been judged for just the lower parts, where the floors were wet from rainwater wicking through the carpeting, but mold lady said ALL of it. Ceilings as well. She said I'll probably need all new HVAC ductwork as well. The kitchen cabinets are gone, and these guys re-tarped part of the roof, where my neighbor's help kinda fell short a couple of places.
Cleaned out the garage freezer today, which was stinking to high heaven! I never use the garage fridge except for soft drinks and beers, so having a stink come from it was confusing. Confusing, that is, until I remembered the 20 pounds or so of deer meat a friend of mine brought me last season... Steaks, ground meat, and sausage! GONE!!!!! The freezer is a MESS, with blood having run from the bags when they thawed, then pooled and frozen on the bottom of the freezer! That was the nastiest thing I've ever done, I think, getting the meat out of there. I didn't bother thawing the freezer to clean it, I'm literally just going to claim it as a loss. That smell will NEVER come out of that system! Thing is, had I remembered, we could have had a HELL of a block party around two or three or four gas grills!
I pulled a coffee-table type book out of a box that was on a closet floor, and it had what must have been 6 or 8 kinds of mold on it. There was dusty brown stuff, heavy black, thick green, and even some fuzzy white stuff growing on it. The mold lady actually got excited about it, said, "Ooh, gimme that!" and started naming all the species! She made sure to include it in their sampling, which they took from 8 spots around the house. She had a moisture meter, and took pictures of it showing 100% on several sections of the fuzzy drywall. personally, I just can't believe how FAST that stuff grew in!! Just over two weeks since the storm, and nearly ALL of the house is fuzzy! Sections that weren't visibly moldy, she still found evidence of spores. She was impressive!
I really don't know how someone decides to do that kind of work. It's not something I'd like to be going around doing, that's for sure!
Cleaned out the garage freezer today, which was stinking to high heaven! I never use the garage fridge except for soft drinks and beers, so having a stink come from it was confusing. Confusing, that is, until I remembered the 20 pounds or so of deer meat a friend of mine brought me last season... Steaks, ground meat, and sausage! GONE!!!!! The freezer is a MESS, with blood having run from the bags when they thawed, then pooled and frozen on the bottom of the freezer! That was the nastiest thing I've ever done, I think, getting the meat out of there. I didn't bother thawing the freezer to clean it, I'm literally just going to claim it as a loss. That smell will NEVER come out of that system! Thing is, had I remembered, we could have had a HELL of a block party around two or three or four gas grills!
I pulled a coffee-table type book out of a box that was on a closet floor, and it had what must have been 6 or 8 kinds of mold on it. There was dusty brown stuff, heavy black, thick green, and even some fuzzy white stuff growing on it. The mold lady actually got excited about it, said, "Ooh, gimme that!" and started naming all the species! She made sure to include it in their sampling, which they took from 8 spots around the house. She had a moisture meter, and took pictures of it showing 100% on several sections of the fuzzy drywall. personally, I just can't believe how FAST that stuff grew in!! Just over two weeks since the storm, and nearly ALL of the house is fuzzy! Sections that weren't visibly moldy, she still found evidence of spores. She was impressive!
I really don't know how someone decides to do that kind of work. It's not something I'd like to be going around doing, that's for sure!
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gregory
Great things are afoot
WOW!
sorry for the ordeal your in, but it sounds like you are on your way to being whole again
sorry for the ordeal your in, but it sounds like you are on your way to being whole again
hppants
Well-known member
Removing all sheetrock and insulation is a good thing. Now we know that we can dry the structure totally. You can see everything and know it's being fixed right.
1. Got to close the building envelope first - roof repairs are of the highest priority. If the roof that was damaged was asphalt composition shingle type, and the "3 tab" style was what you had before, consider paying the small difference to upgrade to the "architectural style" shingles. In our experiences with hurricanes, these shingles seem to be holding up much better. Make sure your contractor is using ring shank nails on the shingles. Ask them to hammer them manually in lieu of a pneumatic nailer. They probably won't but maybe they will. Doesn't hurt to ask. Manually nailed roofs last longer. Insist on no less than six (6) nails per shingle. Again, if you damaged roof had 15-year felt on it, pay the few bucks to upgrade that to 30 year felt. The felt paper is your weather proofing - don't skimp on this. You want all new drip edge all around and you want all flashing for any chimney replaced in its entirety. Do not hesitate on this requirement.
2. If you are planning to stay at this residence, consider the following energy efficiency moves. They will cost you a little money, but you will get it back in energy savings and the overall cost is very cheap since the contractor is already working:
- make sure you have a ridge vent for every hip ridge section of your roofing.
- If you have turbines, put these on your roof too.
- Replace individual soffet vents with the continuous vent - replace wooden soffet with the vinyl product. No more painting and MUCH better air flow.
- install the radient barrier to your roof deck sheathing in your attic. Trust me - this stuff is amazing. An EXCELLENT buy for the money.
3. Next up - gotta get the HVAC working. The goal is to de-humidify the house. Don't be surprise if they want to "cook" the water out using the heater instead of the A/C. It all depends on the outside conditions and the moisture conditions inside. They might pump the house up to 85 degrees, and with the industrial de-humidifiers running, cook that water out of the studs in a few days. Then slowly reduce the inside temperature to running the A/C (if it's fixed) and continue.
4. Question - did water get into your house from the roof damage, or did you experience some kind of storm surge from the hurricane?
Keep going - the worm is fixing to turn.....
1. Got to close the building envelope first - roof repairs are of the highest priority. If the roof that was damaged was asphalt composition shingle type, and the "3 tab" style was what you had before, consider paying the small difference to upgrade to the "architectural style" shingles. In our experiences with hurricanes, these shingles seem to be holding up much better. Make sure your contractor is using ring shank nails on the shingles. Ask them to hammer them manually in lieu of a pneumatic nailer. They probably won't but maybe they will. Doesn't hurt to ask. Manually nailed roofs last longer. Insist on no less than six (6) nails per shingle. Again, if you damaged roof had 15-year felt on it, pay the few bucks to upgrade that to 30 year felt. The felt paper is your weather proofing - don't skimp on this. You want all new drip edge all around and you want all flashing for any chimney replaced in its entirety. Do not hesitate on this requirement.
2. If you are planning to stay at this residence, consider the following energy efficiency moves. They will cost you a little money, but you will get it back in energy savings and the overall cost is very cheap since the contractor is already working:
- make sure you have a ridge vent for every hip ridge section of your roofing.
- If you have turbines, put these on your roof too.
- Replace individual soffet vents with the continuous vent - replace wooden soffet with the vinyl product. No more painting and MUCH better air flow.
- install the radient barrier to your roof deck sheathing in your attic. Trust me - this stuff is amazing. An EXCELLENT buy for the money.
3. Next up - gotta get the HVAC working. The goal is to de-humidify the house. Don't be surprise if they want to "cook" the water out using the heater instead of the A/C. It all depends on the outside conditions and the moisture conditions inside. They might pump the house up to 85 degrees, and with the industrial de-humidifiers running, cook that water out of the studs in a few days. Then slowly reduce the inside temperature to running the A/C (if it's fixed) and continue.
4. Question - did water get into your house from the roof damage, or did you experience some kind of storm surge from the hurricane?
Keep going - the worm is fixing to turn.....
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wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Water was from roof damage. Surge was in the street but nowhere near high enough for even the garage, much less the house, which is 18 inches higher than the garage. My porch is a step up from ground level, then two more steps to get into the house, and the center of the lot is well elevated from the street.
Air handler's been removed, as the platform it was sitting on was starting to sag. Serious water damage from the gas furnace flue coming apart at the roof and the HVAC closet ceiling falling in. Air handler is probably not re-installable, which means entire system will have to be replaced, as it's the old refrigerant and they can't get evaporators for that any more. The compressor is less than ten years old, but the air handler is (I think) original to the house. It's NASTY inside with all the stuff that fell in, apparently the plenum at the top was damaged enough to open it up to the weather. So... No A/C or heat for the time being. Whether the insurance folks make that a priority if it can help the rest of the house remains to be seen!
Pants, you said earlier 10% max moisture for the lumber. The drying contractor is telling me 14 to 16... Googling, I saw a statement of 9 to 14% for framing. Confusing!
I'm spending the weekend in the garage going through tools and cabinets. So far I'm amazed how well things held up. There's a set of carving knives of my dad's that have some rust on the blades, but I don't carve. Still, expensive knives, probably, so there's a picture of them for the claim! Everything else is cleaning up nicely, and so far all the power tools I've tried work just fine. The hardest part so far has been finding everything and sorting it out. The pegboard is nearly empty, everything blown off of it. Stuff got blown off of shelves. Toolboxes have water in the drawers. One toolbox had drawers lined with felt flocking. the tools are cleaning up OK, but the felt is moldy and will have to come out. There's a project for me already, re-line the toolbox drawers! That box was closest to the front of the garage, and the garage door blew out. The boxes in the back are OK, except one that was open, it got wet, but mostly was full of fiberglass and drywall bits from the ceiling.
My saddest find so far is a plastic container that has hundreds of packages of pictures, the kind you used to get when you took 35mm film in to get developed and printed. I've got that box sitting in one of the rooms where they've got the big dryers running, and we'll see. I also have, from Dad, the Deutsche Grammophon 17-volume Beethoven bicentennial collection, apparently his complete works. The box cases are a loss, but the record sleeves, while paper, are plastic lined, and it looks like I can repackage the vinyl and keep the set. No value without the cases (or the large book that came with the set, which was really nasty by the time i found it,) but if I can at least play the records once into the computer and save them, I'll be OK. In better condition, other music from Dad was a series of LPs called "The world's greatest music." These are so old they're monaural. (They are 33-1/3 LPs, at least!) There is also a binder with 15 45rpm records in it of Glenn Miller recordings. The records were made in 1954, from recordings made between 1939 and 1942. I haven't heard them, yet, I didn't even know I had them! They were in a box of Dad's stuff i hadn't even gone through, yet! Anyway, these last two sets are OK. the box they were in was wet, but was well sealed, and the contents did not suffer. Looking forward to spinning up the Glenn Miller stuff! I know it's not modern quality recording, but it's the actual music of the time, from the time!
Air handler's been removed, as the platform it was sitting on was starting to sag. Serious water damage from the gas furnace flue coming apart at the roof and the HVAC closet ceiling falling in. Air handler is probably not re-installable, which means entire system will have to be replaced, as it's the old refrigerant and they can't get evaporators for that any more. The compressor is less than ten years old, but the air handler is (I think) original to the house. It's NASTY inside with all the stuff that fell in, apparently the plenum at the top was damaged enough to open it up to the weather. So... No A/C or heat for the time being. Whether the insurance folks make that a priority if it can help the rest of the house remains to be seen!
Pants, you said earlier 10% max moisture for the lumber. The drying contractor is telling me 14 to 16... Googling, I saw a statement of 9 to 14% for framing. Confusing!
I'm spending the weekend in the garage going through tools and cabinets. So far I'm amazed how well things held up. There's a set of carving knives of my dad's that have some rust on the blades, but I don't carve. Still, expensive knives, probably, so there's a picture of them for the claim! Everything else is cleaning up nicely, and so far all the power tools I've tried work just fine. The hardest part so far has been finding everything and sorting it out. The pegboard is nearly empty, everything blown off of it. Stuff got blown off of shelves. Toolboxes have water in the drawers. One toolbox had drawers lined with felt flocking. the tools are cleaning up OK, but the felt is moldy and will have to come out. There's a project for me already, re-line the toolbox drawers! That box was closest to the front of the garage, and the garage door blew out. The boxes in the back are OK, except one that was open, it got wet, but mostly was full of fiberglass and drywall bits from the ceiling.
My saddest find so far is a plastic container that has hundreds of packages of pictures, the kind you used to get when you took 35mm film in to get developed and printed. I've got that box sitting in one of the rooms where they've got the big dryers running, and we'll see. I also have, from Dad, the Deutsche Grammophon 17-volume Beethoven bicentennial collection, apparently his complete works. The box cases are a loss, but the record sleeves, while paper, are plastic lined, and it looks like I can repackage the vinyl and keep the set. No value without the cases (or the large book that came with the set, which was really nasty by the time i found it,) but if I can at least play the records once into the computer and save them, I'll be OK. In better condition, other music from Dad was a series of LPs called "The world's greatest music." These are so old they're monaural. (They are 33-1/3 LPs, at least!) There is also a binder with 15 45rpm records in it of Glenn Miller recordings. The records were made in 1954, from recordings made between 1939 and 1942. I haven't heard them, yet, I didn't even know I had them! They were in a box of Dad's stuff i hadn't even gone through, yet! Anyway, these last two sets are OK. the box they were in was wet, but was well sealed, and the contents did not suffer. Looking forward to spinning up the Glenn Miller stuff! I know it's not modern quality recording, but it's the actual music of the time, from the time!
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hppants
Well-known member
I wouldn't close the walls until I had 10% of less moisture on all wooden framing holding for a 48 hour period. You can't get there until your HVAC is working as designed.
Pictures and documents can be dried under a vacuum, but it is very expensive. This is a big piece of the tragedy. Everyone should know that they are all susceptible to some kind of natural disaster. Scan your pictures and save them to an external hard drive - make a copy and keep them off site (Mother's house, etc). I need to do some of that myself.
If your ductwork is inner lined (fiberglass or other material used for insulation and sound proofing), and it got wet, it's got to be replaced - it cannot be cleaned. If you ductwork is just hard pipe/duct (metal only), then it can be cleaned and disinfected.
Keep in mind that your FEMA claim is going to consider whatever your homeowner's insurance won't pay, but it necessary to make your house the way it was. None of them will pay to make it better (FEMA Hazard Mitigation grant excluded). So anything that your insurance doesn't cover needs to be given to FEMA immediately.
Even if neither covers it, the small upgrades suggested to your roof are very good investments if you think that you will be staying there after the rebuild. They will harden your defenses against future events, and save you money on electricity in the meantime.
Pictures and documents can be dried under a vacuum, but it is very expensive. This is a big piece of the tragedy. Everyone should know that they are all susceptible to some kind of natural disaster. Scan your pictures and save them to an external hard drive - make a copy and keep them off site (Mother's house, etc). I need to do some of that myself.
If your ductwork is inner lined (fiberglass or other material used for insulation and sound proofing), and it got wet, it's got to be replaced - it cannot be cleaned. If you ductwork is just hard pipe/duct (metal only), then it can be cleaned and disinfected.
Keep in mind that your FEMA claim is going to consider whatever your homeowner's insurance won't pay, but it necessary to make your house the way it was. None of them will pay to make it better (FEMA Hazard Mitigation grant excluded). So anything that your insurance doesn't cover needs to be given to FEMA immediately.
Even if neither covers it, the small upgrades suggested to your roof are very good investments if you think that you will be staying there after the rebuild. They will harden your defenses against future events, and save you money on electricity in the meantime.
FJRay
Well-known member
It's amazing the depth of knowledge here on the forum and the willingness to share. There's probably not much that folks here can't handle.
I don't have much in the way of natural disaster to worry over other than the occasional volcano but I do need to get off my ass and video all the crap in the house and especially the shop.
I don't have much in the way of natural disaster to worry over other than the occasional volcano but I do need to get off my ass and video all the crap in the house and especially the shop.
Bugnatr
Well-known member
FYI don't keep the video at home. Store at a friends or family members home so you can retrieve it after the volcano.
wfooshee, i had to deal with a freezer full of bad meat. Enough to make you sick as you know. Shit can that unit.
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Icky-fridge is Gorilla-taped shut and out by the curb!!
I found storage in Destin, about a 50-mile trip. The U-Haul guy is gonna love the mileage!! Hopefully all the stuff that's salvageable can go in one trip.
Have not looked yet for roofing or remodeling contractors. Water guy said that micro-cleaning begins tomorrow or Wednesday. Hopefully my truck is loaded and the house empty by tomorrow afternoon.
When the drywall came off, we found that the laundry room wall is no longer connected to the rafters. The top of the wall can move about an inch either way. My laundry room is alongside the garage, just as long as the garage, and just wide enough for the washer and dryer side by side at the far end. Some of the rafters are almost an inch clear. Seems the roof tried very hard to fly away...
I found storage in Destin, about a 50-mile trip. The U-Haul guy is gonna love the mileage!! Hopefully all the stuff that's salvageable can go in one trip.
Have not looked yet for roofing or remodeling contractors. Water guy said that micro-cleaning begins tomorrow or Wednesday. Hopefully my truck is loaded and the house empty by tomorrow afternoon.
When the drywall came off, we found that the laundry room wall is no longer connected to the rafters. The top of the wall can move about an inch either way. My laundry room is alongside the garage, just as long as the garage, and just wide enough for the washer and dryer side by side at the far end. Some of the rafters are almost an inch clear. Seems the roof tried very hard to fly away...
Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
My friend Hppants is correct in everything he is telling you.
I will throw a couple of things into the mix.
Regarding moisture %, different meters will give different readings, and different folks will have a different cutoff %. I agree with the 10% cutoff BUT!!! This can be amazingly difficult to achieve in Florida. We ran into that here, getting below 10% when the ambient humidity is above 90% is Very Difficult. You may have to compromise on that 10% number. The time of year is in your favor here.
Order any cabinets that need to be replaced Right Now. I repeat, any cabinets that need to be replaced ORDER THEM RIGHT DAMMIT NOW! Cabinets have a very long lead time and everyone around you will be progressing at about the same rate as you. This means you will all be ordering cabinets At The Same Damn Time. Get ahead of the game, order now and this will not be your hold up. I speak from experience with our 2016 Flood and the Hurricane Harvey Texas Flooding.
It may not seem like it but (again agreeing with Hppants) pulling all of the drywall is a Good Thing. For all of the reasons Hppants already said.
Again agreeing with Hppants, I am a PM away.
I will throw a couple of things into the mix.
Regarding moisture %, different meters will give different readings, and different folks will have a different cutoff %. I agree with the 10% cutoff BUT!!! This can be amazingly difficult to achieve in Florida. We ran into that here, getting below 10% when the ambient humidity is above 90% is Very Difficult. You may have to compromise on that 10% number. The time of year is in your favor here.
Order any cabinets that need to be replaced Right Now. I repeat, any cabinets that need to be replaced ORDER THEM RIGHT DAMMIT NOW! Cabinets have a very long lead time and everyone around you will be progressing at about the same rate as you. This means you will all be ordering cabinets At The Same Damn Time. Get ahead of the game, order now and this will not be your hold up. I speak from experience with our 2016 Flood and the Hurricane Harvey Texas Flooding.
It may not seem like it but (again agreeing with Hppants) pulling all of the drywall is a Good Thing. For all of the reasons Hppants already said.
Again agreeing with Hppants, I am a PM away.
hppants
Well-known member
Redfish is right, different moisture meters do read differently. There are so many variables. The sensitivity of the conductivity sensors, the calibration of the meter, the standard used in the calibration, the fact that the material being measured is not a homogeneous material, differences in the room space environments, etc.
I didn't think about the cabinets - good catch, this is a long lead item. If your cabinets are solid wood (not plywood), and they didn't sit in water for too long, they might be salvageable, and refinishing them might give you a better product than buying the cheapie crap they make today. Just a thought.
The building envelope has to be closed first. No way you are going to dry the house until that it done. Your roof has to be properly repaired. They can get it in the ballpark (16-20%) with a tarped roof. This is likely why they are pushing this number. They are going to get it down to about 18-ish %, and then pull their equipment and walk away.
Next, you have to get your HVAC working. If it's 65% relative humidity outside, and you have no HVAC, you have no chance of getting it down to 20% inside (with the help of the drying equipment), and you have no chance of getting the framing as dry as it needs to be.
Full disclosure - here is a Hurricane Sandy document from FEMA that is touting 15%:
https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1381405548275-ec9f9b9de186f1874b92ecda6c33182b/SandyFactsheet1CleaningFloodedBldgs_508_FINAL2.pdf
I still think that if you follow these steps, you can get it down to 10%, certainly 11-12%.
Remember the Golden Rule - the other one:
He who hath the gold gets to make the rules.
In this case, that is your insurance underwriter. If you can't find it in your policy declarations, I'd get an opinion (in writing) from your insurance regarding the minimum moisture levels for your wooden framing. Then, before the walls are closed up, I'd phone video and photograph the meter readings within your house to prove compliance. That way, heaven forbid, if you end up with a problem down the road, the ones with the gold have to stand by their opinion or requirement.
I'm making a big deal out of this on purpose. The mold exclusions on your policy are very tricky to migrate. If you had flood insurance, things would be FAR less difficult. You have got to take extra steps here and go slow and methodical. Hasty decisions here are going to cost you tens of thousands down the road. Take your time and be VERY comfortable with every step.
The other thing that sticks out is the fact that now, we have a structure issue - the wall that apparently became detached during the storm. I don't know if that was a load bearing wall or not, but the point is this - you have to request a structural engineer's examination of your house and your insurance should pay for this. There is no point in drying or rebuilding a house that is structurally unsafe. The fix might be super simple or super complicated to the point where it is cost prohibitive. Don't stick your head in the sand - there is only one way to find out.
I didn't think about the cabinets - good catch, this is a long lead item. If your cabinets are solid wood (not plywood), and they didn't sit in water for too long, they might be salvageable, and refinishing them might give you a better product than buying the cheapie crap they make today. Just a thought.
The building envelope has to be closed first. No way you are going to dry the house until that it done. Your roof has to be properly repaired. They can get it in the ballpark (16-20%) with a tarped roof. This is likely why they are pushing this number. They are going to get it down to about 18-ish %, and then pull their equipment and walk away.
Next, you have to get your HVAC working. If it's 65% relative humidity outside, and you have no HVAC, you have no chance of getting it down to 20% inside (with the help of the drying equipment), and you have no chance of getting the framing as dry as it needs to be.
Full disclosure - here is a Hurricane Sandy document from FEMA that is touting 15%:
https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1381405548275-ec9f9b9de186f1874b92ecda6c33182b/SandyFactsheet1CleaningFloodedBldgs_508_FINAL2.pdf
I still think that if you follow these steps, you can get it down to 10%, certainly 11-12%.
Remember the Golden Rule - the other one:
He who hath the gold gets to make the rules.
In this case, that is your insurance underwriter. If you can't find it in your policy declarations, I'd get an opinion (in writing) from your insurance regarding the minimum moisture levels for your wooden framing. Then, before the walls are closed up, I'd phone video and photograph the meter readings within your house to prove compliance. That way, heaven forbid, if you end up with a problem down the road, the ones with the gold have to stand by their opinion or requirement.
I'm making a big deal out of this on purpose. The mold exclusions on your policy are very tricky to migrate. If you had flood insurance, things would be FAR less difficult. You have got to take extra steps here and go slow and methodical. Hasty decisions here are going to cost you tens of thousands down the road. Take your time and be VERY comfortable with every step.
The other thing that sticks out is the fact that now, we have a structure issue - the wall that apparently became detached during the storm. I don't know if that was a load bearing wall or not, but the point is this - you have to request a structural engineer's examination of your house and your insurance should pay for this. There is no point in drying or rebuilding a house that is structurally unsafe. The fix might be super simple or super complicated to the point where it is cost prohibitive. Don't stick your head in the sand - there is only one way to find out.
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
I don't think any of my interior wall are load-bearing, except the end walls of the living/dining/kitchen area, which has the cathedral ceiling. It's pretty easy to examine the structure when there aren't any ceilings... The laundry room wall just isn't attached at the top, and I actually see no evidence that it ever was! I do see all the straps tying the roof joists to the exterior walls. These kept most of the roof on the house!!
Thanks for the tip on cabinets. It would be nice if measurements had been taken. I'd rather not design from scratch, and the appliances are OK. Wouldn't have hurt my feelings for something to go through the top of that range, 'cause I hate the damn thing. When I was married, my wife just had to have a glass-top stove. It doesn't heat as fast as the coil-burner stove it replace, the temperature is impossible to regulate as each burner has a different "personality," and it's hard as hell to clean. I wanted a gas range, as gas is there right now, and adjustable right now, but she was afraid of gas. "Oh, it's not safe! The house is going to explode or burn down or something." We already had a gas water heater and gas central heat, and yet no explosions or fires... Then just a few years after getting this money-pit of a range, she leaves me for some asshole at church!!! I WANT MY FUCKING GAS RANGE!!!!! But nothing wrong with this one, so I can't make a claim and get gas instead... Or maybe one of those inductive stoves... Those work well, from what I hear! Oh, well.
The other difficulty with the cabinets is that the backs of the cabinets on the living room side of the kitchen are visible in the living room, thus a large finished wooden surface both above and below the counter. The overheads on that side were suspended, not supported. The countertop on that side overhangs in the living room to make like a breakfast bar
Thanks for the tip on cabinets. It would be nice if measurements had been taken. I'd rather not design from scratch, and the appliances are OK. Wouldn't have hurt my feelings for something to go through the top of that range, 'cause I hate the damn thing. When I was married, my wife just had to have a glass-top stove. It doesn't heat as fast as the coil-burner stove it replace, the temperature is impossible to regulate as each burner has a different "personality," and it's hard as hell to clean. I wanted a gas range, as gas is there right now, and adjustable right now, but she was afraid of gas. "Oh, it's not safe! The house is going to explode or burn down or something." We already had a gas water heater and gas central heat, and yet no explosions or fires... Then just a few years after getting this money-pit of a range, she leaves me for some asshole at church!!! I WANT MY FUCKING GAS RANGE!!!!! But nothing wrong with this one, so I can't make a claim and get gas instead... Or maybe one of those inductive stoves... Those work well, from what I hear! Oh, well.
The other difficulty with the cabinets is that the backs of the cabinets on the living room side of the kitchen are visible in the living room, thus a large finished wooden surface both above and below the counter. The overheads on that side were suspended, not supported. The countertop on that side overhangs in the living room to make like a breakfast bar
mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
Not going to try to advise you on anything structural, you seem to be getting some good stuff from people who know what they are talking about.
The inductive hob is very quick to react. A pan of milk starting to boil up? Just turn that "ring" off. Within a fraction of a second the milk level is sinking. Same with anything you are doing. Want to set a simmer? Very easy and controllable, and quick to find the setting. Much more controllable than gas.
Sides of pans aren't heated (unlike gas where the flame goes up the outside when set high). Stuff doesn't get burnt on the sides if you are heating vigorously. Nor does the handle get heated from below.
Very easy to clean, it's a ceramic top that doesn't really get hot (any heat in it is from its contact with the pan, not from below or internally), so stuff doesn't get burnt on. The surface is smooth, no nooks and crannies for dirt to get in - touch controls of course.
Biggest plus? Wifey loved it.
Downsides? Relatively expensive to buy. It will only heat pans with magnetic bottoms, we had to change some of our originals - we had a set from wedding presents, so well over 40 years old!
Biggest issue would be for someone with a heart pacemaker - they are given strong warnings about going near an inductive hob. Wifey's sister had an induction hob. She got fitted with a pacemaker, changed her hob for gas, she hates the gas after using induction.
If you do find you have to or can change, I for one would seriously recommend induction.
Even I can cook stuff on it.
Hope this isn't straying off topic, but we got "one of those inductive stoves" when our previous hob started acting up.
The inductive hob is very quick to react. A pan of milk starting to boil up? Just turn that "ring" off. Within a fraction of a second the milk level is sinking. Same with anything you are doing. Want to set a simmer? Very easy and controllable, and quick to find the setting. Much more controllable than gas.
Sides of pans aren't heated (unlike gas where the flame goes up the outside when set high). Stuff doesn't get burnt on the sides if you are heating vigorously. Nor does the handle get heated from below.
Very easy to clean, it's a ceramic top that doesn't really get hot (any heat in it is from its contact with the pan, not from below or internally), so stuff doesn't get burnt on. The surface is smooth, no nooks and crannies for dirt to get in - touch controls of course.
Biggest plus? Wifey loved it.
Downsides? Relatively expensive to buy. It will only heat pans with magnetic bottoms, we had to change some of our originals - we had a set from wedding presents, so well over 40 years old!
Biggest issue would be for someone with a heart pacemaker - they are given strong warnings about going near an inductive hob. Wifey's sister had an induction hob. She got fitted with a pacemaker, changed her hob for gas, she hates the gas after using induction.
If you do find you have to or can change, I for one would seriously recommend induction.
Even I can cook stuff on it.
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BkerChuck
Second hand vegetarian
While I know the timing of it is poor consider selling off the hated range and buying a replacement. Maybe even find a neighbor in your area willing to do a trade? I understand there is more than enough on your plate already and it pains me to even imagine what you're going through. The advice from our LA members here is absolutely priceless and will put you way ahead of many other folks at getting your life back on track as painlessly as possible.
hppants
Well-known member
Good to hear you may not have structural wall damage, but again, now is the time to formally address this, and the only opinion that truly counts (in matters of insurance and litigation) is from someone who has the letters "P.E." behind his or her name. Your insurance covers this (I'm 99% sure), so do not hesitate to ask for that opinion.
The range appliance is small potatoes. Hold that thought for now. But understand that you can work with your adjuster and negotiate some to get what you want. Your insurance pays the cost to put it the way it was, but you have options regarding how to use that money. Example using the stove with ficticious numbers:
1. Cost to replace stove with exact same as before: $750.00 (Replacement coverage, should be no depreciation)
2. Cost to replace stove with the one that you want: $1,000.00
For this portion of your claim, you request payment made payable to yourself. You get $750.00 and you spend $1,000.00. You get what you want and it only cost you $250.00.
Now - you can do this with a contractor too, if your insurance adjuster wants to pay the contractor. In this example, the contractor would ask you to pay him the $250.00 difference. This concept could apply to the energy saving ideas I previously mentioned. For this scenario, you will need your contractor to provide you and your adjuster separate estimates (broken down line by line) for (1) what is cost to put it back the way it was, and (2) what you want, including any upgrades.
There is nothing illegal, unethical, or immoral about this. I literally do it all the time in my daily work.
Again, FEMA will not consider any of this (hazard mitigation grant excluded - that will be coming, but it will be about a year before it's offered to you, and when it does, it will be for upgrades that make your property less susceptible to flood/wind damage - such as making your house category 3 rated, raising the base elevation of your house, etc).
The range appliance is small potatoes. Hold that thought for now. But understand that you can work with your adjuster and negotiate some to get what you want. Your insurance pays the cost to put it the way it was, but you have options regarding how to use that money. Example using the stove with ficticious numbers:
1. Cost to replace stove with exact same as before: $750.00 (Replacement coverage, should be no depreciation)
2. Cost to replace stove with the one that you want: $1,000.00
For this portion of your claim, you request payment made payable to yourself. You get $750.00 and you spend $1,000.00. You get what you want and it only cost you $250.00.
Now - you can do this with a contractor too, if your insurance adjuster wants to pay the contractor. In this example, the contractor would ask you to pay him the $250.00 difference. This concept could apply to the energy saving ideas I previously mentioned. For this scenario, you will need your contractor to provide you and your adjuster separate estimates (broken down line by line) for (1) what is cost to put it back the way it was, and (2) what you want, including any upgrades.
There is nothing illegal, unethical, or immoral about this. I literally do it all the time in my daily work.
Again, FEMA will not consider any of this (hazard mitigation grant excluded - that will be coming, but it will be about a year before it's offered to you, and when it does, it will be for upgrades that make your property less susceptible to flood/wind damage - such as making your house category 3 rated, raising the base elevation of your house, etc).
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
This might be better as a PM to hppants, but I'll post it as a reply.
I finally have an initial check on the way from the insurance company, and of course it's an extreme low-ball. Also, they don't have my contents list, yet, or the receipts for stuff already done, like mold assessment, tarps, etc.
My policy is for coverage of Replacement Cost. The estimate they've covered with the check (I don't have the check, yet, just an email of the letter that's coming with it,) includes almost 25% reduction of their estimates as "recoverable depreciation." I don't understand that at all. There are instructions for filing supplemental claims to "recover" the recoverable depreciation, mainly to have contractors submit everything, or if I do it, to submit all receipts. It also says that for supplemental claims, the cost of repairs must exceed monies already paid, plus the deductible. But they've already subtracted the deductible form the amount on the check. They placed a value on the repairs noted by the adjuster, depreciated it, and subtracted the deductible, and that net is what they're sending. Why do I have to exceed the deductible for a supplemental claim? I've already paid it in the form of a reduced check for the initial payment. I also don't understand "recoverable depreciation." The word "depreciation" does not appear in my policy. Anywhere. My coverage for the house is Replacement Cost. My coverage for Loss of Use is Replacement Cost. So why do I have to go through hoops to get the value of what has to be done?
Also, the adjuster made a stupid mistake on the roof. I have the roof that sticks out in front of the house over the porch. (Is that a portico?) His drawing has it at the end of the house, and not extending at all, so he's 2 or 3 squares short of the actual shingle area.
Just to show the lowball of the initial check, they valued roof repair at just over 10K, depreciated it to about 8400, and both contractors I've gotten estimates from are talking 13.5K. Obviously they'll be able to get paid, I just wonder why it's so hard to get an honest bit of information from the insurance? And why put in the recoverable depreciation and then make me go after it? REPLACEMENT COST!!!
OK, maybe that was a bit of a rant, but this is so annoying!!!! And I'm sure there are people out there who go, "Oh. Damn. This is all I'm going to get!"
I finally have an initial check on the way from the insurance company, and of course it's an extreme low-ball. Also, they don't have my contents list, yet, or the receipts for stuff already done, like mold assessment, tarps, etc.
My policy is for coverage of Replacement Cost. The estimate they've covered with the check (I don't have the check, yet, just an email of the letter that's coming with it,) includes almost 25% reduction of their estimates as "recoverable depreciation." I don't understand that at all. There are instructions for filing supplemental claims to "recover" the recoverable depreciation, mainly to have contractors submit everything, or if I do it, to submit all receipts. It also says that for supplemental claims, the cost of repairs must exceed monies already paid, plus the deductible. But they've already subtracted the deductible form the amount on the check. They placed a value on the repairs noted by the adjuster, depreciated it, and subtracted the deductible, and that net is what they're sending. Why do I have to exceed the deductible for a supplemental claim? I've already paid it in the form of a reduced check for the initial payment. I also don't understand "recoverable depreciation." The word "depreciation" does not appear in my policy. Anywhere. My coverage for the house is Replacement Cost. My coverage for Loss of Use is Replacement Cost. So why do I have to go through hoops to get the value of what has to be done?
Also, the adjuster made a stupid mistake on the roof. I have the roof that sticks out in front of the house over the porch. (Is that a portico?) His drawing has it at the end of the house, and not extending at all, so he's 2 or 3 squares short of the actual shingle area.
Just to show the lowball of the initial check, they valued roof repair at just over 10K, depreciated it to about 8400, and both contractors I've gotten estimates from are talking 13.5K. Obviously they'll be able to get paid, I just wonder why it's so hard to get an honest bit of information from the insurance? And why put in the recoverable depreciation and then make me go after it? REPLACEMENT COST!!!
OK, maybe that was a bit of a rant, but this is so annoying!!!! And I'm sure there are people out there who go, "Oh. Damn. This is all I'm going to get!"
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