I am back - and I have a story

[PotentialFJRowner]

I last visited this forum about two months ago. I was contemplating an FJR purchase (hence the name). I did find one at a dealer and sat on it for awhile. Then I sat on a VStar cruiser 1300 and it instantly felt like that was the bike for me with the more relaxed riding position.

I found a used 2008 VStar 1100 at a local dealer, traded in my old Suzuki, and bought it.

I put 1,500 miles on it as of Tuesday, then had an accident - my first.

I was riding behind a person who pulled over to the right shoulder with no signal. It appeared as though he was turning right or letting me pass in the lane. I started to overtake him and he suddenly turned left. I avoided him, and with the rear brake locked, I started to lose it. Down on the left it started to go, I corrected it, but it flopped over hard to the right and threw me off. I skidded across the road on my right forearm and knees and came to stop in the grass. The bike did the same.

The insurance company just cut me a check yesterday after the damage neared $5000. It is totaled.

As I sit here with my skinned up forearm, knees, and a sprained ankle, I can't help thinking if this would have turned out differently on an FJR or my old Suzuki.

Even with 1500 miles of riding, I still wasn't quite used to the way the VStar handled. That relaxed riding position that made me choose it over the FJR is not the best for handling, I learned. I thought I was getting better by leaning my upper body up and into the turn, as the bike responded to that better than just sitting there and leaning to the side. Still, this bike was way better at going in a straight line than the turns. Also, the rear brake locks up very easy and other VStar owners have reported the same.

I also had two other close calls with this bike within a month - one was coming up and turning on a fresh gravel covered road that was not rolled yet, which would have put me on my side if I didn't straighten it out. Couldn't stop because the wheels just locked up, so I coasted into some guy's lawn, no harm, no foul.

I also came around a curve a week earlier than the gravel incident, and found a driver half in my lane. I did a moderate evasive manuever and avoided that person. The VStar handled that fine. Of course, these situations would have happened on any bike. The question is - as the driver - would another bike be easier to handle?

So, the question is - do you think the FJR would have been easier to handle in these situations, or would it have been the same? Would the FJR be at all safer?

I am asking this because the VStar is totaled, and I have some $$$ left from the deal, and there are some FJRs for sale locally and this is a good time to buy. However, I am also considering not riding at all anymore after this experience.

Please share your thoughts.

 

[Ken45]

Using rear brakes on many bikes can be very risky. You have to learn how to balance the front and rear brakes. Many people on the older bikes rarely use the rear although that is not ideal. Proper combination, and using the correct brake at the right time, is the best by far.

That being said, newer FJRs have ABS and the foot peddle is linked to the front and rear brakes. IMO, recent FJRs have awesome brakes.

Locking a rear brake can be disasterous, as you learned. I think what you experienced is a "high side" crash.

On some bikes, the rear brake only contributes 10-20% of total braking, not a whole lot, and it can easily get one into trouble if you lock it up.

I wasn't there so I don't know, but it sounds like perhaps you were not driving defensively. If you are not 100% (no, 150%) certain what another driver is doing, you should be in full alert, defensive mode and should have slowed down and been prepared with both brakes as well as planning your escape plan.

The FJR is a very maneuverable bike. Sometimes that can save you, other times it could get you in trouble.

It also sounds like you need more training/experience in handling emergency maneuvers. Perhaps an Experienced Rider Course would be a wise investment.

No bike is a cure for all problems. Alertness, slowing down, and mental preparation helps somewhat.

I'm glad your wreck was not too serious.

Ken

 

[PotentialFJRowner]

HI Ken - thanks for responding. You are 100% right. I know I should have used the front brake more, after reflecting upon it. Perhaps a safety course like you said would help also. I definitely would need some training on emergency maneuvers if I get it biking again. First and foremost, I should have braked until the other driver did what he was going to do, not assume and go around. I have been very careful with people waiting to turn out on to roads where I am heading at them, and watching oncoming traffic for people turning without looking. I caught some people about to turn in front of me and was ready to react, but they always saw me after attempting to pull out/in front of me.

 

[ionbeam]

Any bike with ABS will be an improvement. While under way the FJR is well balanced, well behaved and the ABS brakes are very good. I would also recommend looking into some good riding gear. Pain hurts, pain that was preventable hurts worse. Browse pictures from FJR rides and count the people that DON'T have on good gear. Most of us FJR riders are old experienced and that leads us to dress the way we do.

 

[PotentialFJRowner]

Worst part is I have an armored jacket and pants (no boots)! I looked at my armored jacket the morning of the accident and decided not to wear it. That was dumb. I instead put on a light fleece jacket which offered little protection. With the jacket and pants, I would not have a scratch on me as there is armor or padding in each spot where I have road rash. I haven't gotten around to buying boots - which, if I had those on, probably would not have hurt my ankle.

I probably could have walked away from a 30+ mph spill without being harmed if I just had the right gear on. Rest assured, if I get on the saddle again, I will be an ATGATT rider. :clapping:

FJR has better, proportioned brakes, ABS, and better handling. I wonder if they outcome would have been different. I would have slammed on the rear brake, but I would have stopped faster with proportional braking and there would be no tire locking. I probably would have stayed upright. The driver did change course when he saw me heading at him, thank goodness.

I bet I would have come to a controlled stop on an FJR.

Of course, I should never have been in that situation to begin with. h34r:

 

[03HiYoSilver]

...So, the question is - do you think the FJR would have been easier to handle in these situations, or would it have been the same? Would the FJR be at all safer?

...

I am glad you are OK.

In my mind, the FJR (Sport Touring Position) and quick power, would have been better able to handle this situation. The Sport Touring Position has the driver more centered over the Center of Gravity allowing for a better and more responsive control.

This is one reason I keep the bike's RPM at about 5k or better in traffic as to react quickly when the need arises.

Wishing you a quick recovery...

 

[mcatrophy]

First, glad you weren't hurt worse.

Without being there, and reading between the lines of your post, my immediate thought was "What's all this about the rear brake?".

[preach]

In ANY heavy braking, whether "emergency" or simply riding hard, the rear brake is almost irrelevant. Even that linking on the FJR only puts a little braking on the front.

Be in the habit of ONLY using the FRONT BRAKE except under particular circumstances of finally coming to a halt in a curve, or sometimes on a very slippery surface.

My suggestion would be to get yourself into the habit "Brake with the front brake". Then, when you do need to stop in a hurry, you will automatically use the one that gives you 80% of your available braking effort.

And, quite right, get some training. In any case, learn to squeeze that front brake lever, not grab it. ABS will save you, but you'll lose a few feet of stopping distance if the ABS comes in.

Practise, practise, practise. Find out how hard you can brake, you will be surprised.

[/preach]

Now, get that FJR (or any other bike that makes you heart beat a little faster), get trained up, remember they're all out to kill you. When you realise this, avoiding their efforts becomes part of the skill set that makes motorcycling enjoyable.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I think before you make a decision on a bike...get to a training course and brush up on those braking and evasive skills. Also, read up on analyzing the situation before you...and listen carefully during your training session. Even the best bike can't make up for poor spacing or bad decision making...and believe me, I'm preaching to myself here as well.

So get skilled up...then choose your bike. A cruiser can be a perfect bike for you...even though it may not be for me. A bike is only as safe as the operator riding on it.

 

[TomInPA]

While the FJR is incredibly better in maneuverability and braking, it is also much faster. If you choose to get one, respect that fact you may be able to ride faster than your angels can fly. Most experienced rider courses can help prepare you for better decisionmaking and improve your evasion and braking skills. Even with those refinements, you just have to keep assuming the driver ahead will do something other than what you expect...turn left in front you, pullout from the drive or shopping center, cross the center. Always expect that you are unseen and you can't predict what another driver will do. Good luck, and I wish you better on your next bike. DO get the ABS.

 

[phroenips]

First, glad you weren't hurt worse.

Without being there, and reading between the lines of your post, my immediate thought was "What's all this about the rear brake?".

[preach]

In ANY heavy braking, whether "emergency" or simply riding hard, the rear brake is almost irrelevant. Even that linking on the FJR only puts a little braking on the front.

Be in the habit of ONLY using the FRONT BRAKE except under particular circumstances of finally coming to a halt in a curve, or sometimes on a very slippery surface.

My suggestion would be to get yourself into the habit "Brake with the front brake". Then, when you do need to stop in a hurry, you will automatically use the one that gives you 80% of your available braking effort.

And, quite right, get some training. In any case, learn to squeeze that front brake lever, not grab it. ABS will save you, but you'll lose a few feet of stopping distance if the ABS comes in.

Practise, practise, practise. Find out how hard you can brake, you will be surprised.

[/preach]

Now, get that FJR (or any other bike that makes you heart beat a little faster), get trained up, remember they're all out to kill you. When you realise this, avoiding their efforts becomes part of the skill set that makes motorcycling enjoyable.

I disagree. Always use BOTH brakes, and regurlarly go to an empty parking lot and practice emergency braking maneuvers (using both brakes, learning how much pressure you can use on front/rear)

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Be in the habit of ONLY using the FRONT BRAKE except under particular circumstances of finally coming to a halt in a curve, or sometimes on a very slippery surface.

My suggestion would be to get yourself into the habit "Brake with the front brake". Then, when you do need to stop in a hurry, you will automatically use the one that gives you 80% of your available braking effort.

...

I disagree. Always use BOTH brakes, and regurlarly go to an empty parking lot and practice emergency braking maneuvers (using both brakes, learning how much pressure you can use on front/rear)

I technically agree with you. However, as we all know, when we are braking really hard the rear brake does little, the rear wheel being almost lifted off the road.

Until you have sufficient experience to go for your front brake in an emergency, almost forgetting you have a rear brake forces your muscle memory to go for the front.

When this is ingrained, then you can start using both brakes, which in normal use certainly gives a much better feel to the bike.

OK, maybe I came on a little strong, but I've witnessed people who have never learnt to use the front brake, and I've been scared rigid on a couple of occasions by their near misses.

 

[FJR-Voltron]

I have had a lot instances (more than I can count) where I had to absolutely stop very aggressively and every single time I thank my lucky stars that this bike has ABS. On top of that, I can also attest to the relatively quick/nimble handling that the FJR has, has saved my hyde on more than one occasion.

 

[azitlies]

First, glad you weren't hurt worse.

Without being there, and reading between the lines of your post, my immediate thought was "What's all this about the rear brake?".

[preach]

In ANY heavy braking, whether "emergency" or simply riding hard, the rear brake is almost irrelevant. Even that linking on the FJR only puts a little braking on the front.

Be in the habit of ONLY using the FRONT BRAKE except under particular circumstances of finally coming to a halt in a curve, or sometimes on a very slippery surface.

My suggestion would be to get yourself into the habit "Brake with the front brake". Then, when you do need to stop in a hurry, you will automatically use the one that gives you 80% of your available braking effort.

And, quite right, get some training. In any case, learn to squeeze that front brake lever, not grab it. ABS will save you, but you'll lose a few feet of stopping distance if the ABS comes in.

Practise, practise, practise. Find out how hard you can brake, you will be surprised.

[/preach]

Now, get that FJR (or any other bike that makes you heart beat a little faster), get trained up, remember they're all out to kill you. When you realise this, avoiding their efforts becomes part of the skill set that makes motorcycling enjoyable.

I disagree. Always use BOTH brakes, and regurlarly go to an empty parking lot and practice emergency braking maneuvers (using both brakes, learning how much pressure you can use on front/rear)

concur with Phroenips on this one. Anytime we're stopping in an emergency, both brakes (and all 4 fingers on the front) is our full stopping power, without either tire locked up. We teach that in the MSF classes and anytime someone is too heavy on the rear brake and too light on the front we make sure it's clear they need to "make better friends" with the front brake.

Understand your perspective Mcatrophy, but we really don't want to tell anyone to only use the front, that's not our full stopping power. And as far as the rear brake not being of much use because the front is being used... just a minute, are you saying you've seen someone do a stoppie on an fjr? isn't a 650 lb bike a bit heavy for a stoppie? Anyway, that's certainly not the point, point really is again, both brakes to their fullest extent without locking either one up.

That's the info you'll get "I am back" in both the BRC and the Experienced Rider course (now called BRC 2).

 

[bucky]

Antilock brakes are your friend. And combined braking also. I have a v-star 1300 and it is surprising how fast the rear locks up using the foot pedal, even on dry pavement. And once it locks up, it wants to come around on you..and fast. At some point you get past the point of no return, and it happens quickly. I never put the bike down, but came close once. Never again. I rarely now use the rear brake on that bike and have trained myself to use front only. Remember in a sudden stop maneuver you don't have time to really think very long and training, habits and instinct take over.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I owned a VStar prior to my FJR and your right the rear brake bites.. Literally.

Plus you can't hamfist the front brake on those things, rake and trail make 'em pretty unstable.

The FJR is so stable I can momentarily lock the front wheel in a panic type stop. But I've never been big on rear brake first anyway.

 

[Chuck35]

Always remember, The sole purpose of EVERY other vehicle is your destruction. They are ALL out to get you.

I plan to make it difficult for them!

 

[Gerry.GEG]

sorry you had a crash. I concur with everything everyone's said. Although one can have an accident on ANY bike I think cruzers are more susceptable to possible accidents where evasive handling can be a major factor. Based on your story I really can"t say if an FJR would have gotten you out of that scrap but I've had a few close calls where the FJ's brakes and handling certainly helped me.

Personally, I think it's not a wonder that many times when you read about a MC accident it happens to be a Harley or cruiser style. Now, of course there are a multitude of facors in any accident but I firmly believe that what one rides has a major part to play. I've ridden my boss' Harley and I've ridden a VTX. I dont' have extensive experience on cruisers but anytime I did ride them I felt that if something appeared in front of me, I'd be toast. I've almost never felt that way on my FJ.

So, MSF course; absolutely. AGATT, absolutely, consider an FJ, absolutely.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Patriot]

can I ask if the other vehicle stopped, the police were involved, were their any citations isssued and how are both the insurance companies handling this.

It wasn't your fault on any level and the other driver should be cited and their insurance cover your damages.

I hope so.

If not, that would be an example of a nightmare for me.

heal up and get back on the horse in a reasonable time,

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[HotRodZilla]

I think that the FJR's ABS may have helped somewhat in your situation, but I fail to see how any perceived "better handling" of the FJR would have come into play. Let's face facts: It doesn't sound like you rode the V-Star to its full potential, so surely, you would have been lacking on the FJR also. As mentioned before, since the FJR is so much faster, you may have actually put yourself into a worse situation compounded by added speed.

First: As said before, go to a class. Not trying to be judgemental, but it doesn't sound like you know how to ride a motorcycle very well. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you accept your level of ability, ride accordingly, and work to improve. One instance of having to run off the road because you lost control, and another of crashing because you lost control, along with another scare, all within 1500 miles says something for your skill, and you need to make adjustments.

Second: Learn your brakes, whether ABS or not. You should have known a long time ago what it would take to lock up the rear tire on the V-Star and what it would do when you did. You waited until you were in a full panic and then it was too late. You needed to have the ability to bring the bike to near lock up, know it's coming, let off a little and do it again. That comes with practice.

Third: Use both your front and rear brakes. This notion that you shouldn't use the rear unless you are in a full panic stopping situation is simply wrong. If you don't use your rear brake on a "normal" basis, you won't use it in an emergency either. You will be depending on muscle memory to save your ass, and your muscles will have the wrong memory.

You should initially ride with your right toe covering your brake pedal. If you begin to brake hard, the forward inertia will actually bring you down to your brake, and you should engage it. If you don't believe me, try it. Also see how the braking force feels with just the rear brake (poor), just the front brake (still poor, but better), and with both brakes (best). You will then understand that both brakes should be used when you stop.

Fourth: Practice in parking lots and empty roads. If you grab too much and crash in a big empty parking lot, that's way better than doing it in the middle of a busy intersection. You should know what your bike will do and how it will feel when you grab the brakes. You should know how it will feel if you go full throttle at different speeds in 1st, 2nd, etc...

Last: Wear your gear. You're lucky your not more seriously injured. Turns out riding in a t-shirt, fleece pull-over and jeans isn't as cool as you thought. At least you seemed to have learned that part.