pjm204
Well-known member
Bringing the bike in Tuesday for a listen at the dealer that the PO purchased the bike at. They seemed nice and the PO has a good relationship with them.
I just bought a ticker....I think
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pjm204
Well-known member
Anybody have the part numbers for the valves, valve guides, seals, etc that need to be put in to fix it? Just want to have as much information as possible for the dealer. So far they seem very cooperative.
03HiYoSilver
Well-known member
Pim,
Here is a link to this process:
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...;hl=12210-01-00
Not sure if you need to update it but it will give you a place to start.
Here is a link to this process:
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...;hl=12210-01-00
Not sure if you need to update it but it will give you a place to start.
pjm204
Well-known member
Well I brought the bike in. They were very nice but said they thought it was a longshot that Yamaha would fix it on their dime. I'm not going to give up though. I think persistance is the key to this issue. They did say they would give a call to their service Rep. I'm drafting a letter to Yamaha customer service, and I may give them a call. I wish I could talk directly to the service rep for my area.
Another local shop said if I made an appointment they would call the rep and find out if they would cover it. So I will keep working on it.
Another local shop said if I made an appointment they would call the rep and find out if they would cover it. So I will keep working on it.
As far as I can see, it has still not been diagnosed as actually being a ticker yet, ie. having loose valve guides.
Negotiating for payment of the repair before you know it actually needs it is putting the cart before the horse, IMO.
Negotiating for payment of the repair before you know it actually needs it is putting the cart before the horse, IMO.
apratt
Well-known member
When it comes to Yamaha paying, there's something more you need to know: because the excessive valve guide wear causes unburned oil to escape into the exhaust system, this is an EMISSIONS-SYSTEM issue. Due to environmental regulations, problems with the emissions system are covered for a longer period of time than the manufacturer's warranty - maybe 10 years or something seriously long like that. All manufacturers are subject to this.
As the other poster mentioned, getting Yamaha to promise to pay will be impossible until you confirm that the valve guides are the cause. Instead, you'll get dealer incrementalism. First, Yamaha (through your dealer) might offer to do a timing chain tensioner check/repair for free. They'll call it "goodwill," not "recall" or "warranty." That's OK, let them use their own words for it. And they'll do it even though you KNOW that's not the problem, because it's how their checklists are written.
Then they might ask you to "authorize" removal of the exhaust headers for inspection. "Authorizing" that means you'll pay for it if they don't find anything. If they do find oil there, that's a definitive indication of an internal problem, and you can take your discussions to the next level. (Money-saving tip to suggest: they don't have to drain and remove the radiator like the manual says; they can just un-mount it and move it aside.)
In the case of my twice-fixed FJR, I was NEVER able to get the dealer or Yamaha to agree to anything in advance of the relevant diagnostic step. Nobody would ever say, "If we do test X and it shows result Y then Yamaha will pay." They just don't work like that, making if-then promises about the future. You have to go step by step, and you'll be on the hook if they don't actually find anything or determine they won't pay even if they do find something.
The diagnostic (removing the headers) is a few hundred dollars. It'll be discouraging to have to pay for this and then not have Yamaha pay for the repair, even if you find you need it. But that part costs a lot less than the actual repair, which involves many parts, lots of labor time, and a machine-shop job.
I think you have to decide: if they *do* find a problem and Yamaha still will NOT pay, would you pay for the repair yourself? If not, then this is something you're ultimately willing to live with. If you'd get it repaired in either case, having Yamaha pay would just be twelve hundred dollars' worth of gravy.
Good luck.
As the other poster mentioned, getting Yamaha to promise to pay will be impossible until you confirm that the valve guides are the cause. Instead, you'll get dealer incrementalism. First, Yamaha (through your dealer) might offer to do a timing chain tensioner check/repair for free. They'll call it "goodwill," not "recall" or "warranty." That's OK, let them use their own words for it. And they'll do it even though you KNOW that's not the problem, because it's how their checklists are written.
Then they might ask you to "authorize" removal of the exhaust headers for inspection. "Authorizing" that means you'll pay for it if they don't find anything. If they do find oil there, that's a definitive indication of an internal problem, and you can take your discussions to the next level. (Money-saving tip to suggest: they don't have to drain and remove the radiator like the manual says; they can just un-mount it and move it aside.)
In the case of my twice-fixed FJR, I was NEVER able to get the dealer or Yamaha to agree to anything in advance of the relevant diagnostic step. Nobody would ever say, "If we do test X and it shows result Y then Yamaha will pay." They just don't work like that, making if-then promises about the future. You have to go step by step, and you'll be on the hook if they don't actually find anything or determine they won't pay even if they do find something.
The diagnostic (removing the headers) is a few hundred dollars. It'll be discouraging to have to pay for this and then not have Yamaha pay for the repair, even if you find you need it. But that part costs a lot less than the actual repair, which involves many parts, lots of labor time, and a machine-shop job.
I think you have to decide: if they *do* find a problem and Yamaha still will NOT pay, would you pay for the repair yourself? If not, then this is something you're ultimately willing to live with. If you'd get it repaired in either case, having Yamaha pay would just be twelve hundred dollars' worth of gravy.
Good luck.
pjm204
Well-known member
I'd have a hard time paying $2500 for this issue. I think I'd likely sell the bike before I did that. I don't mind them dropping the headers although I wouldn't imagine much oil will be there after 5k miles.
apratt
Well-known member
But that's the point: there should not be ANY liquid oil or residue (sludge) in the exhaust headers. They should be perfectly clean and dry, because the only thing going through them is (very) hot exhaust gases. Any oil there is coming from where it shouldn't be, like getting through the valve guides and seals. This is the definitive diagnostic test Yamaha uses to show there is an internal problem - if not The Tick then something else really bad. At least, it was when I wrote my articles on the subject.
If you can "drop the headers" yourself - and remember what I said about moving the radiator aside instead of removing it, much easier - then by all means do that as your definitive test. If you find oil in the pipes or in the exhaust ports on the engine side, document it with pictures or invite your dealer's service manager to your shop to see it. Or put it back together and let the shop take it apart again - whatever will work for your dealer. Then go from there. According to the manual, there are single-use seals and things you should be ready to replace when you put it back together.
You wrote that a tech heard something but didn't know about this guide/seal issue. He said he would research it. Let me suggest you try to locate a dealer who has gone through this before. "Researching" this (asking Yamaha) will not turn up anything, because historically, they haven't talked about it to dealers - they tell the dealer what to do and ultimately they have paid when the right combination of symptoms appears, but they don't have a bulletin or a program in place. This long after the 03-04 model years, you're going to need somebody who believes in this and has been through it before with Yamaha.
I see.
So you'd rather try to pawn it off with a known problem engine on someone else?
Or would you tell them up front that the engine is a ticker and it needs ~ $2500 worth of work to make it right, and that Yamaha has already refused you the out of warranty coverage? I'd guess your bike would be darned hard to sell in that state. There are a few 1st gens with normal mileage and no tick that have been languishing in the classifieds at pretty low prices (~$5500). Would you be willing to sell your bike for $3k?
All of this is mental masturbation. You still do not know if you really have a ticker.
pjm204
Well-known member
I agree that finding a dealer who has already repaired a ticker is my best bet. I'm just having a bit of trouble finding one locally. I know there is one in CT but driving 3 hours multiple times is a little much. As for dropping the headers myself, that is definitely an option. My problem is that even if my bike is a ticker, will Yamaha really cover it out of good will?
