I just might be The Man...

[Toecutter]

Check this local news story.

With undercover moto cops, I'm definitely re-thinking the white paint idea....

 

[k7lvo]

There's a gray BMW brick (RT?) here in southern Oregon. I don't know which agency it belongs to because I saw it with its strobes running at an accident scene with other motors, but no uniform close enough to lay claim to it.

OSP also has at least one car in the area that is totally plain until the strobes come on. It's for road ragers, though, so - other than radioing ahead - they don't want to advertise it with minor stuff...

 

[JRO]

Yah, there are cops on motorcycles. I've never heard of an 'unmarked' partol bike, and since I feel all vehicles performing traffic control duties should be marked, I object. Surely, the guy was in uniform, however. If a bike was unmarked, and the officer wasn't dressed like an officer, I'd have to consider pulling over for him.

 

[Toecutter]

Surely, the guy was in uniform, however.

I asked what he was wearing. Guess I'll have to wait until I see him. Blowing by an ST like that is just tool-like behavior. I usually sneak up on all bikes ahead, then pass them at a pace slow enough to exchange acknowledgments.

 

[Ian Farlow]

I've never heard of an 'unmarked' partol bike, and since I feel all vehicles performing traffic control duties should be marked, I object. Surely, the guy was in uniform, however.

I used to love getting out in my unmarked vehicle to stop people for traffic violations. People acted "right" when they saw me in a marked car. People acted "normal" when they didn't see me. Bear in mind that "normal" translates into "breaks motor vehicle laws" in this case. I wouldn't always ticket, but I would always explain what they were doing and why it was wrong/dangerous/etc.

The excuse I most often got? "I didn't see you." My response? "So you believe that doing the right thing is only important when law enforcement is watching?"

They never really had much else to say.

 

[JRO]

"To properly enforce misdmeanor traffic violations, I once again return to my point about professional standards. Detective vehicles should be restricted from such

duty. The public expects to see uniformed officers in clearly marked patrol cars, daily performing traffic control, in a professional manner. This is not only

important to the safety of our citizens, but to the officers who protect them. Using unmarked cars for such duty may improve city coffers, but it also engenders a

feeling of distrust in the public. The safety of the police officer is degraded, whenever public respect for the police is eroded. A force which resorts to such tactics,

is not acting in a professional manner." - Fred Farnam, Chief of Detectives (Ret.)

 

[Ian Farlow]

Definitely one man's opinion (a retired detective complaining of working traffic... really? I find that so odd! ) and not shared by me (nor is it shared by many, many others that I know). My safety was never in jeopardy because I didn't have any markings on my vehicle, the safety of the public wasn't in jeopardy because I didn't have any markings on my vehicle, and I was always in full uniform when I worked. Believe me, I had more blue lights on that thing that most of the marked vehicles in the fleet.

I remember working one night while in a marked patrol vehicle. Central communications broadcast a message that there was a dangerous driver running red lights on a fairly busy (and fast) highway in the county. I found a location and waited to see what I could see. I found the vehicle, but when the driver saw me, he acted right and didn't run any more red lights. I broke off contact and went about my business without being able to stop him. I was approached by a concerned citizen who saw the dangerous behavior of the driver I was watching, and she asked why I "refused" to do anything about him. I had to explain to her that I can only act on what I observe (with few exceptions that aren't important to this discussion), and because he saw me before I saw him do anything wrong, I was unable to observe any violations. She was angry and left unsatisfied because I "failed" to protect her or the other citizens. I have no doubt that when the male driver I was observing saw that I turned around, he proceeded to drive like a fool and put his (and everyone else's) life back in danger.

Fast forward to me working in an unmarked vehicle. At this point in my career, my job was administration, not enforcement, but I was able to get out when I wanted to and work the streets. Same situation, but this time, because my vehicle is unmarked, the dangerous driver doesn't see me and continues to put people at risk with his behavior. I am able to observe his violations, pull him over, and ticket him. He now has to answer for his behavior. He was mad, but the citizen that called to complain on him was very thankful that I "did my job."

There will always be opposed viewpoints to law enforcement, but each and every time someone told me that they hated the cops, or the cops are jerks, or idiots, or that the cops should stop wasting their time bothering/harassing/oppressing people, that their anger always boiled down to one of two things:

1. They were ticketed/arrested for breaking the law

2. They were unable to do what they wanted and break the law because the cops were around all the time to stop them

 

[BwanaDik]

+1.

Thanks for being out there :clapping:

 

[Ian Farlow]

+1.
Thanks for being out there :clapping:

I appreciate that.

It's a difficult situation being in law enforcement. Law enforcement can be very rewarding (saving someone's life, for example), but it can be very depressing and frustrating as well (being told that you are going to be sued because you injured that person who's life you were saving). I try to understand and respect every opinion that is presented, but on the other hand, I get so tired of defending myself to people that have absolutely no idea what law enforcement is all about (not directed at anyone here, just venting). I have spent most of my adult life in uniform serving either my Country through the Marine Corps, or my City/County/State through law enforcement. I wouldn't trade any part of it for anything.

I have always wanted to have an open discussion about law enforcement with anyone interested, but I have always feared that that would be doomed to failure. I say that because people get so passionate about a hatred for law enforcement. Phrases such as "pig" or "the man" or... well, plenty of worse ones, believe me. The conversations I have had with people that are angry with law enforcement fail to see or accept any explanation but their own as to why a law enforcement officer did what he did.

I have been told that what I do is unfair, is harassment, is driven by racism, is wrong, is unnecessary, is fueled by revenue generating "speed traps," etc. I have been told that I must be an idiot, that my parents must have hated me, that I must have been picked on in school... I have been swung at, shot at, had dogs attack me, seen adults crushed to death, seen children crushed to death... I can't tell you how many parents refuse to accept that their sweet, innocent child, who is really a decent person, is not so decent based on the fact that he was drunk and just ran down someone crossing the street. There are always excuses as to why the guilty really should be let go "just this one time. They'll do better."

I almost shot a 14 year old to death because he had a loaded gun. I say almost because the only thing that prevented his death was that he never pointed the gun at me. His words when I asked him later was he was going to do: "I was going to scare you with it." The surprise would have been all his, but the pain would have been all mine. I would have had to deal with that my entire life. His family, on the other hand, hate me, because how dare I be so violent with their sweet child. Bah!

I'm sorry... I don't mean to rant. I have tried so hard to avoid the "I hate cops" discussions that sprout up here (and other motorcycle forums) every now and then, but I just wanted to say something. I'll step back down from my soap box now and return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Patriot]

+1.
Thanks for being out there :clapping:

I appreciate that.

It's a difficult situation being in law enforcement. Law enforcement can be very rewarding (saving someone's life, for example), but it can be very depressing and frustrating as well (being told that you are going to be sued because you injured that person who's life you were saving). I try to understand and respect every opinion that is presented, but on the other hand, I get so tired of defending myself to people that have absolutely no idea what law enforcement is all about (not directed at anyone here, just venting). I have spent most of my adult life in uniform serving either my Country through the Marine Corps, or my City/County/State through law enforcement. I wouldn't trade any part of it for anything.

I have always wanted to have an open discussion about law enforcement with anyone interested, but I have always feared that that would be doomed to failure. I say that because people get so passionate about a hatred for law enforcement. Phrases such as "pig" or "the man" or... well, plenty of worse ones, believe me. The conversations I have had with people that are angry with law enforcement fail to see or accept any explanation but their own as to why a law enforcement officer did what he did.

I have been told that what I do is unfair, is harassment, is driven by racism, is wrong, is unnecessary, is fueled by revenue generating "speed traps," etc. I have been told that I must be an idiot, that my parents must have hated me, that I must have been picked on in school... I have been swung at, shot at, had dogs attack me, seen adults crushed to death, seen children crushed to death... I can't tell you how many parents refuse to accept that their sweet, innocent child, who is really a decent person, is not so decent based on the fact that he was drunk and just ran down someone crossing the street. There are always excuses as to why the guilty really should be let go "just this one time. They'll do better."

I almost shot a 14 year old to death because he had a loaded gun. I say almost because the only thing that prevented his death was that he never pointed the gun at me. His words when I asked him later was he was going to do: "I was going to scare you with it." The surprise would have been all his, but the pain would have been all mine. I would have had to deal with that my entire life. His family, on the other hand, hate me, because how dare I be so violent with their sweet child. Bah!

I'm sorry... I don't mean to rant. I have tried so hard to avoid the "I hate cops" discussions that sprout up here (and other motorcycle forums) every now and then, but I just wanted to say something. I'll step back down from my soap box now and return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

I hope we (mostly) give you a forum to express your point of view or venting as it is. My brother's great interest in law enforcement has driven him to take a 12 week course from the local police department which leads to becoming an auxilary (volunteer) policeman. I have made a close friendship recently with a fellow motorcyclist and PGR member who has been on a nearby city's police force as a patrolman for about a year. I am facinated about human behavior and psychology especially when it comes to extradinary circumstances - military, fireman, policeman, doctors, criminals, etc - love to read biographys and understand where they are coming from and what makes them tick. I admit to myself, I don't think I could do these jobs and survive mentally. I feel bad enough when I screw up someone else's computer system trying to fix or improve it, but no one is physically injured or died in the process.

I, for one, appreciate your service to the country and currently to the community and welcome your point of view, experiences, and whatever you wish to share with us. You are a human being, just like us, with a tough, but interesting job done each day for all of our safety and service in mind. We, like my teenage children, are not likely most times to show appreciation for what you do and the decisions you have to make on a daily basis.

this is also for all the LEO's far and wide who are with us here in cyberspace.

Kudos to ya, sir, from the deep south

keep on, keeping on, please :clapping:

Dragnet and Adam-12 forever !!! :yahoo:

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[badge]

Definitely one man's opinion (a retired detective complaining of working traffic... really? I find that so odd! ) and not shared by me (nor is it shared by many, many others that I know). My safety was never in jeopardy because I didn't have any markings on my vehicle, the safety of the public wasn't in jeopardy because I didn't have any markings on my vehicle, and I was always in full uniform when I worked. Believe me, I had more blue lights on that thing that most of the marked vehicles in the fleet.
I remember working one night while in a marked patrol vehicle. Central communications broadcast a message that there was a dangerous driver running red lights on a fairly busy (and fast) highway in the county. I found a location and waited to see what I could see. I found the vehicle, but when the driver saw me, he acted right and didn't run any more red lights. I broke off contact and went about my business without being able to stop him. I was approached by a concerned citizen who saw the dangerous behavior of the driver I was watching, and she asked why I "refused" to do anything about him. I had to explain to her that I can only act on what I observe (with few exceptions that aren't important to this discussion), and because he saw me before I saw him do anything wrong, I was unable to observe any violations. She was angry and left unsatisfied because I "failed" to protect her or the other citizens. I have no doubt that when the male driver I was observing saw that I turned around, he proceeded to drive like a fool and put his (and everyone else's) life back in danger.

Fast forward to me working in an unmarked vehicle. At this point in my career, my job was administration, not enforcement, but I was able to get out when I wanted to and work the streets. Same situation, but this time, because my vehicle is unmarked, the dangerous driver doesn't see me and continues to put people at risk with his behavior. I am able to observe his violations, pull him over, and ticket him. He now has to answer for his behavior. He was mad, but the citizen that called to complain on him was very thankful that I "did my job."

There will always be opposed viewpoints to law enforcement, but each and every time someone told me that they hated the cops, or the cops are jerks, or idiots, or that the cops should stop wasting their time bothering/harassing/oppressing people, that their anger always boiled down to one of two things:

1. They were ticketed/arrested for breaking the law

2. They were unable to do what they wanted and break the law because the cops were around all the time to stop them

we run unmarked and marked bikes in ireland exactly because of situations like this, with the use of both marked and unmarked vehicles we had the lowest number of road deaths here in twenty years in 2008, if it comes to saving lives................................we'll do whatever it takes

'badge

 

[dcarver]

I understand the LEO perspective, and to be cliché, I have many LEO friends, active and retired, and I appreciate their dedication and service, seriously.

Still, again, integrity is what you do when no one is watching.

I say give us law breakers an even chance. I mean you have radar, lidar, cameras, radios, and judges on your side... :rofl:

Even Leo's on this board admit they speed, but only when they consider it 'safe'. OK, so what? Who am I to say? I do the same thing, LOL..

So here's the deal, IMHO.. traffic enforcers need be easily identified. A marked car surely slows down more potential speeders thus keeping the roads safer than any unmarked car that pulls over the occasional speeder. It's simply a matter of numbers. Be proud, Leo's, and wear your colors when enforcing traffic laws. How can the mouse fully appreciate the cat if the cat looks like a mouse?

Once again, I fully appreciate your work in keeping us all safe, and I DO want fair, sensible, LEO enforcement.

I hope this makes sense... :lol:

 

[Ian Farlow]

I understand the LEO perspective, and to be cliché, I have many LEO friends, active and retired, and I appreciate their dedication and service, seriously.
Still, again, integrity is what you do when no one is watching.

I say give us law breakers an even chance. I mean you have radar, lidar, cameras, radios, and judges on your side... :rofl:

Even Leo's on this board admit they speed, but only when they consider it 'safe'. OK, so what? Who am I to say? I do the same thing, LOL..

So here's the deal, IMHO.. traffic enforcers need be easily identified. A marked car surely slows down more potential speeders thus keeping the roads safer than any unmarked car that pulls over the occasional speeder. It's simply a matter of numbers. Be proud, Leo's, and wear your colors when enforcing traffic laws. How can the mouse fully appreciate the cat if the cat looks like a mouse?

Once again, I fully appreciate your work in keeping us all safe, and I DO want fair, sensible, LEO enforcement.

I hope this makes sense... :lol:

It makes sense. I would never suggest that there shouldn't be marked vehicles, because as you correctly pointed out, the presence of marked vehicles slows traffic down and has a huge impact on safety. I am simply suggesting that it is foolish and short-sighted not to have unmarked vehicles. In my opinion, the two types of vehicles need to be used together for effective enforcement.

Have I driven over the speed limit? Yes. Would I argue if I got a ticket? No. I don't subscribe to the "it's not my fault, every one else is doing it" group. Hell, it's obviously my fault! B) But what are we talking about here? Driving five miles an hour over the posted limit with the flow of traffic, or driving much faster than the flow of traffic, weaving in and out like a down-hill skier? If the former, then I can accept that as reasonable driving by anyone. If the latter, there is no excuse. But, and there is another thread on this that I just won't get into, don't fall into the trap of "that cop is speeding, so why can't I? It must be a case of do as I say, not as I do." Okay... right. For the people that say that, do they have any idea what that cop is doing? Do they know where he is going? Do they have any idea how many times I have had to speed to get to a call, but the type of call didn't warrant lights and sirens? Are there some bad cops that speed for no reason? Yep. Are all of us bad cops? Nope.

I have always taught my trainees that knowing the letter of the law isn't enough. I always expected them to understand the intent of the law. In other words, understand what the law is designed to protect, and ensure that it fits the situation at hand. Additionally, I remind trainees that not everyone needs a ticket, while some need nothing less than an arrest. Each situation is different from the last, and while learning from your past encounters is important, handling the current situation as unique is also important.

One thing my previous boss impressed upon me was this: for most people, the encounter they have with law enforcement today will be their first, and likely their last. Let's not make it their worst if we can help it.

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

All kidding aside, I want to close with this: I always tried to teach my trainees that respect is important. Even that idiot that broke into the gas station to get a pack of cigarettes is still a human being. He might be a moron for doing what he did, but that doesn't make him worthless. Heck, we caught him and are taking him to jail, and that's going to likely be bad enough for him. I always let my trainees know that it's okay to have a normal conversation with them on the way to jail. Just talk to them like a person.

Of course, there are some out there that won't accept being spoken to like an adult and spit and cuss when we make contact with them. In those cases, I remind the trainee that it's okay to give it right back (minus the spitting, of course).

 

[Toecutter]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

Well, then, I guess I can now dismiss everything else you said as utter BS....Thanks!

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance!

"you lawbreakers"

Good attitude.

Cops are more law abiding than everyone else? Not in my experience.

 

[Ian Farlow]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance!

"you lawbreakers"

Good attitude.

Cops are more law abiding than everyone else? Not in my experience.

Wow. You didn't really read the post that I was responding to, did you? If you had, you would have understood the joke there. But this is a perfect example of hatred for law enforcement and an unwillingness to understand anything related to it. I'm sorry you are so shallow.

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

Well, then, I guess I can now dismiss everything else you said as utter BS....Thanks!

Wow. Another one. Sorry you just don't get it.

You both need to stop searching for justifications to your hatred by ignoring reality.

 

[k7lvo]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

I kind of skimmed this earlier, but some of your responses to and treatment of people who don't share your opinion/attitude prompted me to go back for another look. If this puts me in their category as far as your concerned, I'm in good company as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not sure where your smiley applies in the above quote, but, after working as a technician in law enforcement for over a decade, I'm here to say that radar detectors can give a motorist a great advantage when used properly. No, you can't drive blissfully along waiting for your radar detector to alert you to every situation, but a LEO cannot set by the side of the road with the radar on doing paperwork and stop the first car that goes by when the radar goes off. Both the radar and the detector are a tool to assist their operators. Laser is a different situation, but a detector can be of some advantage with it, too.

So, does your smiley mean that you're pulling our collective legs when you tell us our detectors are useless, or that does it apply to the fact that you're giving us a break?

As I've said before, for every LEO who is grinning because someone failed to use their detector correctly and got cited because/ in spite of it, there are MANY motorists/riders who are grinning because they DID use their detector properly and, due to that, were never even noticed by the LEO. Hey, look at it from the bright side: You're happy and we're happy. We both win!

 

[Ian Farlow]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

I kind of skimmed this earlier, but some of your responses to and treatment of people who don't share your opinion/attitude prompted me to go back for another look. If this puts me in their category as far as your concerned, I'm in good company as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not sure where your smiley applies in the above quote, but, after working as a technician in law enforcement for over a decade, I'm here to say that radar detectors can give a motorist a great advantage when used properly. No, you can't drive blissfully along waiting for your radar detector to alert you to every situation, but a LEO cannot set by the side of the road with the radar on doing paperwork and stop the first car that goes by when the radar goes off. Both the radar and the detector are a tool to assist their operators. Laser is a different situation, but a detector can be of some advantage with it, too.

So, does your smiley mean that you're pulling our collective legs when you tell us our detectors are useless, or that does it apply to the fact that you're giving us a break?

As I've said before, for every LEO who is grinning because someone failed to use their detector correctly and got cited because/ in spite of it, there are MANY motorists/riders who are grinning because they DID use their detector properly and, due to that, were never even noticed by the LEO. Hey, look at it from the bright side: You're happy and we're happy. We both win!

Christ almighty, can people not read and take a joke? You know what... **** it. This is exactly why I can't get into a discussion with people about what I do... they always turn it into some sort of personal fucking vendetta against cops. Law enforcement is a fucking job that's not worth all of this bullshit.

Let me see if I can make this as fucking simple as possible... here is the damn quote from dcarver:

"I say give us law breakers an even chance. I mean you have radar, lidar, cameras, radios, and judges on your side... "

Notice the "give us law breakers" part in there. Still following? Good. Hence my response:

"I personally do give you law breakers an even chance!"

See how I tied that back to dcarver's quote? Get it now? It's a fucking tongue-in-cheek response. Fucking hell...

 

[madmike2]

Oh, and by the way... I personally do give you law breakers an even chance! I do this by not telling you that RADAR and LASER detectors are a huge waste of money because they simply don't work. I don't care how many times people swear that they do, I am telling you they don't. I won't go into why, because then you might just stop using them, so... there you go. There's your break!

Well, then, I guess I can now dismiss everything else you said as utter BS....Thanks!

Says the man who has used his fireman's badge to get a break......

Ian, we all have our own issues and to try and argue yours would be a never ending thread.

By my count there are nearly 30 officers on the forum (Yes, some of us do pay attention). Each has tried to explain and some have been bitterly disappointed. We are on opposite sides of the glass wall and see and judge incidents from alternate viewpoints.

The hows and whys of traffic enforcement are a mystery to most of us. There is a vast difference to driving/riding at high rates of speed on congested or high traffic roadways and isolated lonely stretches of pavement. However, even if one should choose to enjoy the performance capabilities of their vehicle on an isolated road they should also understand they have chosen to violate the posted speed limit. Choices have consequences. AND, if one should happen to crash and require county services, those are paid for from the public budget. Fire, rescue, traffic control, time to write reports, etc., are expensive and can demand resources from other emergency or enforcement needs.

Of course, none of us like it when WE are caught.......I mean, WE have our reasons.