Ignition switch issue revisited?

[arby04abs]

Hello again FJR people

I've had an 04 ABS since new and in the past I was a regular poster in FJR forums. A few years ago. I had leg problems - but with 2 new knees I'm riding again - and I have a question. (In the meantime, my forum membership expired - I joined again as a new member).

Back in maybe 07 my key switch had acted up, sometimes not making good contact. At the time there was a forum member who was selling a wired relay that plugged into the switch harness to carry the current better. It has worked fine for years. The part tag says Ersatz Electric s/n 012908-028. Does anybody remember this member's name or how to contact him? Have a new issue now and figured he'd be a good person to consult about it.
Getting the bike ready to ride again, I put in a new battery. Things were fine at first, but sometimes turning the key on does nothing again like 10+ years ago. The next time its fine, full strength, everything lights up, starter cranks and it starts right away.

I remembered putting in the add-on relay downstream of the key switch - so I checked it for continuity, clean contacts, functioning relay, all good. I even tried a different known-good key switch - still totally dead sometimes. Cleaned the batt terminals (again), still dead one time in 3 or 4. Or sometimes it will be dead on 6 or 7 attempts, then start working fine, and be good for several more cycles.

Now comes the head scratcher. With the add-on relay taken out, and the switch wires (tan and red) plugged in directly as they were originally, it now works fine every time I turn the key on. The trouble is I don't trust it.

Sorry for the long post - hope somebody has some ideas.

 

[FJR Flyer]

Brodie made the ignition relay and the grounding harness. He's still replies to messages.

 

[arby04abs]

Great! Thanks for the lightning fast reply. I'll send Brodie a message. Maybe he's heard of related gremlins !

 

[dcarver]

Cheap enough to replace the relay in Brodies wiring kit..

Brodie ignition harness part number -

• Mfr CB1AH-12
• Digi-Key - 255-2082-ND
• Price - 6.82 USD

More info here

 

[arby04abs]

The relay in the Brodie kit tests ok - need to check its grounding.

 

[Brodie]

My good buddy Don Carver is on top of things - as usual, before I can even respond.

70 Amp Automotive Relay

The Panasonic relays I used in the Ignition Relay Harnesses use a 70 amp automotive style relay. I chose this because the 2nd Gen. bikes run a 50 amp main fuse for the electrical system and I wanted to make sure there was enough ampacity in the rating for that device. The issue is that it is an electro-mechanical device which will not last forever. After many years inside that harsh environment, heat and vibration, it will become intermittent. That's what your relay is suffering from. It may bench test fine, however, it is in a failure mode, and may even drop out momentarily while you are riding. You can do one of two things, replace the relay, or if you have the Yamaha Recall ignition switch, install it and remove the Ignition Relay Harness altogether. Either way it will result in a reliable bike once again.

The link I provided above will take you to the DigiKey web page where you can order the correct replacement relay. Note this is a special 70 amp model that you just can't get most anywhere else, that's why I provided the matching socket for it. I did not want anyone substituting with a lower ampacity relay.

Spend the small amount of money, get two of them - they're cheap enough ($6.82), swap it out for the failing relay and go riding. Just to let you know, My personal Ignition Relay Harness has been in all three of my bikes, I'm on my 2nd relay just for this reason.

Hope this helps.

Brodie

 

[escapefjrtist]

After a few years, Hudson had the same thing happen. Replace the relay and all will be well again!

~G

 

[arby04abs]

Ordered some 70amp relays today - Thanks Brodie - and -G and Don Carver and Chris P. - wow its like I've tapped into the mother lode here. Feels great to have these great resources.

I've recently run into a spate of obscure automotive electrical bugs - an Acura with simultaneous failed AC relay and clutch stator, a Honda with implacable VSA warning lights, and a Chrysler van with key-on-but-no-crank (none of the easy things), all of which made me wonder if I'm getting too old for this stuff. But I've gotten to success with the help of good people - many thanks to all who responded this time.

BTW Brodie's paragraphs in the members area are very much worth reading.

Take care, Dick B.

 

[art miller]

Ditto on the positive comments about the helpful efforts of this forum members. A special shout out to Brodie who helped me several times.

 

[rbar]

Oops, signed in with my old member name.

 

[arby04abs]

Ok, back with the new login.

Plugged a new 70a relay into the Brodie harness and the key now lights up the bike every time. Life is good.

Thanks again Brodie - and all else who chimed in. Take care, Dick B.

 

[Brodie]

 

[dcarver]

WooHoo!

 

[dbx]

Hey guys, what's the failure mode when that relay begins to fail?

I'm troubleshooting a no-start condition where the engine cranks just fine, but there's no hint of it trying to actually start. No cough, sputter, pop, etc. Does that fit the failing relay scenario?

(Yes, I have a Brodie relay harness installed.)

 

[Harald]

Hey guys, what's the failure mode when that relay begins to fail?
I'm troubleshooting a no-start condition where the engine cranks just fine, but there's no hint of it trying to actually start. No cough, sputter, pop, etc. Does that fit the failing relay scenario?

(Yes, I have a Brodie relay harness installed.)

Have you tried the WOT (Wide Open Throttle) start method? It's a fairly common issue with the FJR that's usually caused by starting a cold bike and then shutting it off before it fully warms up (but not always). Sometimes a week later it won't start without using WOT and cranking for a while. I'd suggest giving it a rest if it doesn't start after a 30 second crank to allow the starter to cool. Also make sure the battery is fully charged.

 

[arby04abs]

Mine was an all-or-nothing deal. As the relay was going bad, the symptom was like a disconnected battery - turning the key had no effect, no lights, no instruments, no crank - all dead. Turning the key again might restore everything. Or might not. But if it works at all, everything works.

BTW, all good since plugging in a new relay.

 

[dbx]

Harald - Yes, the WOT thing was tried multiple times over multiple days, with battery charging and jumper cables thrown in for good measure. The plugs are dry and there's no smell of gas in the closed garage. I'm getting spark, but it looks pretty weak, possibly explained by the stock plugs with 34K miles, so I'll be replacing those today. The bike always started and ran perfectly, until one day last week when it started normally and then quit about a second later, almost as if I had hit the kill switch. Since then there hasn't been the slightest indication that it wants to fire up. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll quit there for now.

arby04abs - Thanks, that doesn't fit my symptoms. Drat.

 

[dbx]

Closing out the "no start" story I hinted at above.

New NGK CR8E spark plugs were quite likely a big contributor to the issue, (old plugs were the originals and had 34K on them), along with a suspiciously weak battery that's less than 3 years old. I'm used to getting 8-9 years out of a battery, which I know is slightly more than some folks report around here. After a full charge on the Battery Tender, the battery was showing 12.4 volts at rest, 12.2 volts with ignition on, and 10.2 volts during cranking. After just a few seconds of cranking, however, the battery voltage (still while cranking) dipped to 10.1, 10.0, 9.9. then 9.8. That's heading in a bad direction so I'll keep a closer eye on it in the future. Connecting jumper cables from the battery in the truck brought the voltage back up where it belongs and the engine finally roared to life. I have a lot to put back together, but at least it starts and runs again.

Apologies for the hijack.