In general....will you lost your nerve before your tires lose traction?

[RsvlFeej]

On a well-groomed, well kept road, let's assume little or no leaves, and things like that. Will the hard parts drag and force you to stop leaning before the tires are past their point of traction?

On stock suspension, yes. I found I was grinding hard parts (not just peg feelers) whenever I got into your scenario and the road wasn't perfectly smooth. Any bump and SSSCCCCHHHRRRRape. Now that I have suspenders sized to haul my fat carcass (250# +/-), I rarely even fold a peg.

 

[Bulldog9]

Thats easy...... my nerves will give long before the FJR will loose traction. I've never been a real peg scraper, but average double the yellow +10. If I touch down it is entirely unplanned. I've lost my reactions and nerves in the last few years, after getting hit (helmet knicked mirror) and pushed off the road (having to swerve around car coming in opposite direction in my lave) on a reducing radius left sweeper on the Cherahola in 05, I've not been the same.

But I am content to keep riding, just don't push it anymore.

 

[glory racing]

I've never been a real peg scraper, but average double the yellow +10.

Double the posted corner speed +10 is moving pretty good. 80mph through a 35 or 100mph in a 45 is pretty darn fast on the streets.

Glad you decided to slow it down a bit.

 

[Fred W]

I've never been a real peg scraper, but average double the yellow +10.

Double the posted corner speed +10 is moving pretty good. 80mph through a 35 or 100mph in a 45 is pretty darn fast on the streets.

Glad you decided to slow it down a bit.

Oh what? Are you doubting him?

 

[glory racing]

I've never been a real peg scraper, but average double the yellow +10.

Double the posted corner speed +10 is moving pretty good. 80mph through a 35 or 100mph in a 45 is pretty darn fast on the streets.

Glad you decided to slow it down a bit.

Oh what? Are you doubting him?

No, not doubting him at all. Matter of fact, hope the opportunity to ride with him in some prime twisties materializes some day. It would be fun. I Just think it is funny that double +10 is taking it easy! For the majority, double +10 is not even doable.

 

[Fred W]

:lol: I'll tell you right up front. This ole' boy ain't runnin' no marked corners at 100+

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

You're gonna have to leave 'the colonies' and get 'out west' -- many are the big sweepers, marked at 50 or 60 or something for Galaxies, that are quite do-able at 100+.

 

[Fred W]

You're gonna have to leave 'the colonies' and get 'out west' -- many are the big sweepers, marked at 50 or 60 or something for Galaxies, that are quite do-able at 100+.

Why would you bother marking a corner 50 or 60? :blink:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

You're gonna have to leave 'the colonies' and get 'out west' -- many are the big sweepers, marked at 50 or 60 or something for Galaxies, that are quite do-able at 100+.

Why would you bother marking a corner 50 or 60? :blink:

Galaxies (and their ilk...) -- I guess...?

 

[dcarver]

Yes.

 

[MT home]

You're gonna have to leave 'the colonies' and get 'out west' -- many are the big sweepers, marked at 50 or 60 or something for Galaxies, that are quite do-able at 100+.

Why would you bother marking a corner 50 or 60? :blink:

Galaxies (and their ilk...) -- I guess...?

Logging trucks, pick-ups with big campers in the bed, RVs towing boats, you name it. 70 mph is the legal daylight speed in Montana on two lane roads, 75 day or night on the Interstates. We have 45 mph posted curves on the Interstates through canyons and passes.

 

[madmike2]

On a well-groomed, well kept road, let's assume little or no leaves, and things like that. Will the hard parts drag and force you to stop leaning before the tires are past their point of traction?

On stock suspension, yes. I found I was grinding hard parts (not just peg feelers) whenever I got into your scenario and the road wasn't perfectly smooth. Any bump and SSSCCCCHHHRRRRape. Now that I have suspenders sized to haul my fat carcass (250# +/-), I rarely even fold a peg.

Yep! If you intend to seriously assault twisty roads, a suspension upgrade should be #3 on your list (immediately following, or coinciding with, quality riding gear and sliders).

 

[madmike2]

But more than just the leaning item alone, look at the relative stickiness of the front and rear tires. I have found through personal experience that just replacing the rear alone because the front has "plenty of tread left" is a fool's choice if yer gonna be riding twisties...in cold weather...on unfamilar roads...blah biddy blaah....click here

Although (I think) I understand your assertion, I don't fully comprehend the logic of your statement.

To paraphrase, I think you are saying that as a tire becomes worn it has less traction than when it is new? The only way that this would make sense would be in the case of a dual (or multi) compund tire where the stickier soft compound has worn away to reveal harder rubber underneath. I recollect that this would be possible with some of the dual compound rear tires due to the way they are laid up, but I don't know about the construction of multi-compound fronts.

In the case of a single compound front tire the dry traction should progressively increase as the tire gets worn as there is less tread to squirm around under lateral pressure. That (along with reducing unsprung weight) is why racers used to "shave" tires down to the minimum amount of tread thickness that they would need for a given race. Of course, once you add rain, the reduced water dispersion of the tread will effect traction negatively. That has always been my reason for ditching worn front tires before they are worn to the carcass. Yu never know when it's gonna rain on your next parade...

I also agree wholeheartedly on the premise of maintaining a "better" traction tire in front (vs rear). Just not sure how that relates directly to wear status in the dry.

It was cool today and it misted and sprinkled some in the local Sacramento area. On the way home I noticed a couple of times my front PR2 was not it's "normal" self (I replaced the rear 2 weekends ago). Yes, tar-snake territory and one off camber turn, but it was enough to cause me to cool my jets. Just my addition to what Wheatie said. It "could" make a difference if one was planning to explore the limits of tire adhesion.

 

[Fred W]

You're gonna have to leave 'the colonies' and get 'out west' -- many are the big sweepers, marked at 50 or 60 or something for Galaxies, that are quite do-able at 100+.

Why would you bother marking a corner 50 or 60? :blink:

Galaxies (and their ilk...) -- I guess...?

Logging trucks, pick-ups with big campers in the bed, RVs towing boats, you name it. 70 mph is the legal daylight speed in Montana on two lane roads, 75 day or night on the Interstates. We have 45 mph posted curves on the Interstates through canyons and passes.

You mean like FORD Galaxies, or Fairlaners? ? Do you left coasters still see such cars around? Ours have all gone to a rusty grave by now.

But I see the big difference now. A 2 lane is 55mph by default in the north eastern US states. Only limited access roads are marked 65 and there are no roads marked higher. So that's why we seldom see corners yellow marked at 50 or 60 mph.

It was cool today and it misted and sprinkled some in the local Sacramento area. On the way home I noticed a couple of times my front PR2 was not it's "normal" self (I replaced the rear 2 weekends ago). Yes, tar-snake territory and one off camber turn, but it was enough to cause me to cool my jets. Just my addition to what Wheatie said. It "could" make a difference if one was planning to explore the limits of tire adhesion.

It might also just be that you are experiencing the same phenomenon other folx have reported with the PR2's as they become worn. May very well have to do with them being multi-compound.

 

[madmike2]

It was cool today and it misted and sprinkled some in the local Sacramento area. On the way home I noticed a couple of times my front PR2 was not it's "normal" self (I replaced the rear 2 weekends ago). Yes, tar-snake territory and one off camber turn, but it was enough to cause me to cool my jets. Just my addition to what Wheatie said. It "could" make a difference if one was planning to explore the limits of tire adhesion.

It might also just be that you are experiencing the same phenomenon other folx have reported with the PR2's as they become worn. May very well have to do with them being multi-compound.

I agree with your assessment.

I suspect the effects of extended mileage on the front is increased because the increased grip of the new rear tire is "pushing". When the front and rear tires were a matched mileage set I doubt the "feeling" would be as severe or noticeable, though I am aware that as tires age (mileage and time) the grip decreases and I'm usually more cautious (by 10% or more) than I was last night, i.e., more "tourer" or "cruiser" mode. It's MY responsibility to be aware of my tire conditions vs. road conditions. I was just trying to bolster Mark's comments.

Note: Temps were in the mid-50's, humidity in low 60's, dew point near 45, front is over 13K miles old. This is the tire I installed for the CFR trip last June, so there has been plenty of freeway, mountains, twisties, commuting, etc. on this tire. It's almost to the wear indicators and will certainly be changed for the NorCal rain season. I just wanted to see how many miles I could get from the tire.....14K-15K I would think but a weather change will end that experiment.

 

[jjsC6]

The tires are not going to lose traction on good surface just based upon cornering speed (meaning how far leaned over you are). Most people on the street don't ride like you would on a race track. On the track, you are braking hard to the point where your are leaning over to some degree, and you are getting back on the gas as hard as you can as early as you can - and in the gear that maximizes acceleration.

On the street - if you are pushing that hard, you have other things to worry about. The key to how hard I ride on the street is made up of several factors - including visibility through the curve, how well I know the road, whether or not I have a good read on the road surface and potetial hazards etc. And even at that I never brake as hard or accelerate as hard when leaned over as I did when I raced.

It's more about leaving yourself some extra degree of margin on the street. My footpeg feelers have at least 1/2" ground off of them, but in 42,000 miles of riding the bike there was only one time that I felt like I got too close to it's limits and spooked myself a bit. So it's not how far leaned over you are. It's taking all the other factors into account and staying within yours, the bikes and the roads limits.

 

[Steve Hunt]

I took a friends stock FRJ less the side stand out at JenningsGP with my wife on the back. It was at the end of the day and that was a bit of a mistake since my head was use to a much faster pace all day on a my track bike. On the first lap out gong into a pancake flat right (T6 I think it was) I scrapped the right pretty hard but I think it was just the peg. Never felt any slip of the tires. My point is though that you can scrap pegs and hard parts a lot quicker in the mountains where the corners are rarely flat and the tree line is only 15 feet away.

My philosophy is that it is never the right thing to do to stand it up and get on the brakes when on the street/mountains. You have to get it turned or at least stick with turning it no matter what.

 

[rwenck]

My problem with the fjr (I've had 3) is that it makes me forget just how old and sick I really am. Peg feelers are Yamaha's way of reminding me I'm 72 years old.

 

[Wee Willy]

Yes, Virginia, the bike will corner well past the point where the peg scrapers are in the mud under normal conditions and with stock suspension set "hard." Been there and it can get the adrenals working overtime. This is best done when out of the saddle leaning into the turn a la TT for that extra bit of speed. No "chicken strips" on the PR2's either which says we're using all the tire radius in the event. That said, I'm a big guy and the g-loads in cornering at speed push the bike down, compressing the suspension. This puts metal into the asphalt sooner than for a small rider. I could go stiffer and raise the bike off the road, but the tire situation would have to be addressed...I need more rubber out at the edges or I'll start to slide. Going from adhesion to slipping can be cliff-like too as the contact patch loses area. Made worse with any substantial accel or decel action. Remember the "circle of traction" idea for the tire in contact with the road. There's only so much grip to go around and if you're using a lot to do braking or accel, there's less for lateral grip.

Cheers,

W2

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

My philosophy is that it is never the right thing to do to stand it up and get on the brakes when on the street/mountains. You have to get it turned or at least stick with turning it no matter what.

I don't know about never? But, (agree) it certainly isn't the preferred or recommended way to do it...!

Staying on the black-top and in your lane is, by far, better than heading for the ditch and taking your chances.

The FJR has hardly any cornering vices -- for a bike its size, it handles extremely well (imo). The better approach is to learn and develop those riding skills that are needed for cornering a motorcycle: slowing to a suitable entry speed; looking through the turn; lean the bike by pressing on the h/bar in the direction of the turn; and roll-on the throttle through the turn.

Quitting the corner, OTOH, can have many undesirable unknowns.

Ride the Bike. The MSF (and others) can help.