Industry news...

[PapaUtah]

More news from sales floor…and an interesting complaint on the 2007’s…

First, sales quips from a recent analyst survey of Harley-Davidson™ dealers

“Selling a Harley-Davidson™ is rapidly becoming a price battle instead of an experience or luxury.”

“People are really dissatisfied with trade-in values of used Harley-Davidsons™ due to the “technology” upgrade on the 2007s. It's keeping many buyers from actually following through since they don't have 80% of the purchase price in a trade anymore, they've got 50-55%.”

“Too many 07s in inventory. Customer interest in 07s has definitely waned in the past few months.”

“Sell-through on the 07s is definitely underperforming expectations.”

“Lots of customer excitement, but it hasn’t really turned into sales.”

“We sell our 07s at below sticker price by giving them $1-2K in free gear/accessories with a purchase.”

Have we heard this complaint before???

“I am hearing a lot of customer complaints about heat & noise on the new bikes. The 6th gear is machined differently than the lower gears, so it makes more noise.”

“2007 “technology” is giving people trouble with heat from the engine and lots of excess noise on the transmission. I've had a couple of customers raise hell about it but haven't had to take any returns…yet.”

“Lots of riders are complaining of engine heat and transmission noise problems with 07s. I don't think that the new “technology” has been proven yet in the minds of the buyers. I would be lying if I said that I'd even consider customer interest moderate.”

And people complain about heat on the FJR???

Hope Milwaukee isn’t the canary in the coal mine…

 

[Bigboi]

More news from sales floor…and an interesting complaint on the 2007’s…
First, sales quips from a recent analyst survey of Harley-Davidson™ dealers

“Selling a Harley-Davidson™ is rapidly becoming a price battle instead of an experience or luxury.”

“People are really dissatisfied with trade-in values of used Harley-Davidsons™ due to the “technology” upgrade on the 2007s. It's keeping many buyers from actually following through since they don't have 80% of the purchase price in a trade anymore, they've got 50-55%.”

“Too many 07s in inventory. Customer interest in 07s has definitely waned in the past few months.”

“Sell-through on the 07s is definitely underperforming expectations.”

“Lots of customer excitement, but it hasn’t really turned into sales.”

“We sell our 07s at below sticker price by giving them $1-2K in free gear/accessories with a purchase.”

Have we heard this complaint before???

“I am hearing a lot of customer complaints about heat & noise on the new bikes. The 6th gear is machined differently than the lower gears, so it makes more noise.”

“2007 “technology” is giving people trouble with heat from the engine and lots of excess noise on the transmission. I've had a couple of customers raise hell about it but haven't had to take any returns…yet.”

“Lots of riders are complaining of engine heat and transmission noise problems with 07s. I don't think that the new “technology” has been proven yet in the minds of the buyers. I would be lying if I said that I'd even consider customer interest moderate.”

And people complain about heat on the FJR???

Hope Milwaukee isn’t the canary in the coal mine…

Still?

 

[tripletango]

Lot more choices out there now.

The HD syndrome of the red blooded patriotic american as a potential customer may not be so strong anymore. Have to admire their overall success at marketing though.

I think some of the 06s had the same gear box, the engines were a little more powerful so may be warmer overall, not sure why the 07s are any different.

HD owners have said over the years that they are hot to ride in slow going.

 

[PapaUtah]

I wonder if the heat is an even bigger issue on the Screamin' Chicken kits when they replace the jugs and pistons to make them a 103 inch motor? I thought our beloved cookers were the only mark suffering heat exhaustion. As for the tranny I thought the Sudsville Sloths were sourcing from or had licensed the Baker 6 tech in their new meretricious chattel. I am obviously grossly mistaken that Beertown boys would consider the final product before the bottom line. As with the cam bearings on the early TC88s I am sure they will come up with something to soothe the faithful in due time.

The most interesting comment/theme I saw in the whole survey was the consistent dealer lament of the steep decine in used Harley-Davidson™ prices. They remarked that in the past, used Harley-Davidson™ motorcycles commanded 80% of MSRP on trade, even for 3 or 4 year old bikes. That made the trade-up proposition pretty easy once you were able to get someone to purchase the "image and lifestyle" initially. Trading up was cheap. Now a used Harley-Davidson™ is only worth 50-55% of MSRP??? Wow! The Motor Company™ appears to have oversaturated their once fertile marketplace. I remember the days of potential buyers being "screened" to see if they were worthy of getting a number on a list...to take whatever bike became available. The exclusivity of the brand appears to be suffering.

Also VRods are lumped with Sportsters as the most discounted models. And the entire mix for Harley-Davidson™ appears to be moving towards the touring models as those models are in the greatest demand. I suppose they need those bags to haul the wife's purse as they go from the monthly HOG™ meeting at the dealer to the bar down the street.

The industry overall has had a pretty good run over the past 3 years. It could be time for the market place to take a breather, or $3 gas could bring even more newbies into the sport. But it does appear the playing field is getting more competitve. I just hope it translates into better and better product choices.

 

[MikeYork5]

Hey MNFJR05 -

Did you get beat up as a kid by a guy with HD tatoo? Or, did you wife run away with a 1%er? Did a bunch of Harley dudes make you park the FJR out back? WHAT? Seems like some of your threads have a distinct anti-Harley flavor, or is it just me being overly sensitive (ya know us Harley riders)? Dunnno, just curious. Like I've said before with 300,000 plus sales a year I wouldn't be too overly concerned about Harley at this juncture, but us Harley dudes appreciate all the concern, least I do. Ride on --- and I and 'others' do appreciate a leasurely cruise on that thumping V-Twin, not out to tame the Dragon, just nothing more than a leasurely ride. WHAT? You got to speak a little bit louder I can't hear quite as well as I used to, but .........

 

[Bigboi]

AMEN to the Mike York 5's post. The guy that got beat up as a child is dedicated to trashing the HD. He wont quit. He was doing it two years ago, that I know of. He was sure the HDI stock peaked and would never see sixty bucks again. Well, take a look, my ill-attituded naysayer. I think it is at 74 or so. Time to maybe wake up and realize that HDI has had their **** together for quite some time, now.

Harley is Great and I love my FJR. Did I mention how good Harley is. Just let it be good, shut up and finally sit down please

 

[MikeYork5]

Uh-oh, REMEMBER - we don't want to get over political - we got to play nice!

 

[valetz]

Time to maybe wake up and realize that HDI has had their **** together for quite some time, now.

********.... Where is my sport touring machine w/ a VROD engine in it...HD has a long way to go....

-bvw.

 

[PapaUtah]

Nope, never got beat up by a Harley™ dude. It is interesting that you would initially assume a physical assault by a Harley-Davidson™ owner against anyone not embracing the “image, lifestyle and mystique” of The Motor Company™ to be the norm. Nope, I really do love The Motor Company™. They provide us with hours of endless entertainment. I especially love the “rallies”. They remind of a Star trek convention only with different costumes and lots of beer. And Sturgis is the best place in the world to people watch every August.

If I had open exhaust on my truck and sat and revved the engine at every opportunity as the vast majority of most Harley-Davidson™ owners do (hopefully you aren’t in that group) even you would probably say, “What an *******!” But because someone is on a Harley-Davidson™ I am suppose to say, “What a rebel. I bet they are a real badass!” I say, “They must have a really deep mental, physical or emotional void they must be trying to compensate for.” <_<

Now let’s play nice. Keep the warn meters at zero. :yahoo:

As for my post, I wasn’t being negative. It’s called being factual. Those aren’t my comments (well, most of them) but dealers, Harley-Davidson™ dealers. I also found it interesting that Harley-Davidson™ now appears to have a “heat” complaint. The same complaint we have had for years. Also, we are now clamoring for a 6 speed in the FJR, the H-D™ faithful wanted them for years. They now have them. 6 speeds plus what appears to be an unwanted side effect, more noise, and I never thought more noise would be bad for a Harley-Davidson™ owner. We had better be careful what we wish for. This was Harley-Davidson™ making an error, and no company knows their customers better than them.

Yep, still love Harley-Davidson™. In the portfolio, not in the garage. :clapping:

 

[chornbe]

So, uhm... how many people who truly value bikes like the FJR are really into Harleys, anyway? I have a cruiser, too, but I suspect I'm a serious minority. And mine isn't a $17k+ Harley. It's an $8k Honda. I guess my point is... (respectfully) who cares? I doubt very many FJR owners (or *any* sport-oriented bike owners) are going to run right out and snatch up that Road King or Fat Boy now that they *finally* upped the engine to 96 inches.

 

[radman]

Ahhhhhhhhh, John. Forever twisting the cats tail. Heheheh...

 

[MikeYork5]

Those aren’t my comments (well, most of them) but dealers,

I wonder if the heat is an even bigger issue on the Screamin' Chicken ..........As for the tranny I thought the Sudsville Sloths..............

I am obviously grossly mistaken that Beertown boys........................

I suppose they need those bags to haul the wife's purse as they go from the monthly HOG™ meeting at the dealer to the bar down the street.

HUH????????????????? (In my best Harley vernacular.....)

 

[krashdragon]

Those aren’t my comments (well, most of them) but dealers,

I wonder if the heat is an even bigger issue on the Screamin' Chicken ..........As for the tranny I thought the Sudsville Sloths..............

I am obviously grossly mistaken that Beertown boys........................

I suppose they need those bags to haul the wife's purse as they go from the monthly HOG™ meeting at the dealer to the bar down the street.

HUH????????????????? (In my best Harley vernacular.....)

Hey, I love my Harley too! Softail Deuce.... an 03 "Anniversary" model... But it aint' the rare silver and black... it's red! <LOL>

I also love my 05 FJR.... It's so easy to ride for long distances compared to the Harley there isn't any comparison....

But ... it's a different kind of machine...

As is my 06 Triumph Speedmaster (that's the baby bike! ) Little 865 cc engine, upgrades to 904!

Almost handles like a sportbike.... like my 02 1200 Bandit with less power.....

I love them all... All different, like having 4 more kids that don't talk back!

And do what you tell them to! :yahoo:

And yes, if you sit too long in one spot on a Harley you burn you legs, especially in places like Hawaii where the traffic is stop and go a bit and stop some more....

the pipes get hot, the tranny gets hot and the oil pan gets hot...

But I still want a Road Glide... Kinda like an FJR with prebuilt farkles for the interstate.

Gets really boring riding the FJR on the superslab... the RG would be perfect... turn the speakers up and just sit there....

The FJR LOVES corners... the only problem is figuring out how to get to SD or Utah this summer from Ohio on roads with more than one slight curve every 20 or 40 miles! <G>

Mary

 

[chiefj48]

More news from sales floor…and an interesting complaint on the 2007’s…
First, sales quips from a recent analyst survey of Harley-Davidson™ dealers

“Selling a Harley-Davidson™ is rapidly becoming a price battle instead of an experience or luxury.”

“People are really dissatisfied with trade-in values of used Harley-Davidsons™ due to the “technology” upgrade on the 2007s. It's keeping many buyers from actually following through since they don't have 80% of the purchase price in a trade anymore, they've got 50-55%.”

“Too many 07s in inventory. Customer interest in 07s has definitely waned in the past few months.”

“Sell-through on the 07s is definitely underperforming expectations.”

“Lots of customer excitement, but it hasn’t really turned into sales.”

“We sell our 07s at below sticker price by giving them $1-2K in free gear/accessories with a purchase.”

Have we heard this complaint before???

“I am hearing a lot of customer complaints about heat & noise on the new bikes. The 6th gear is machined differently than the lower gears, so it makes more noise.”

“2007 “technology” is giving people trouble with heat from the engine and lots of excess noise on the transmission. I've had a couple of customers raise hell about it but haven't had to take any returns…yet.”

“Lots of riders are complaining of engine heat and transmission noise problems with 07s. I don't think that the new “technology” has been proven yet in the minds of the buyers. I would be lying if I said that I'd even consider customer interest moderate.”

And people complain about heat on the FJR???

Hope Milwaukee isn’t the canary in the coal mine…

ok folks here we go,

i've been the service manager for h-d for the past five years. i've been riding harleys since '79, and i've owned over 100 harleys. it's true harley has out run the demand of their bikes. the 300k bikes they build are already sold to the dealerships a year in advance. it's up to the dealers to sell them, thus the discounts. when i went to the winter dealer show back in '03, we were told to take a lesson from the car market. we were told that 92% of the future profits were going to come from the used bikes, and service. most harley dealers didn't believe it, and just did business as normal. now the dealerships that didn't heed the warning are discounting the bikes big time trying to stay afloat. i could go on about this for hours, but i won't.

as far as the tranny, jims designed them, not baker. the reasons they make noise is: two gears are straight cut (#'s 1 & 5 ) , and they put motor oil in the trans to break them in. i had my techs put belray 85/140 trans fluid, and the noise went away. i've been using belray for over 25 yrs.

now lets look at the heat issue. to meet epa laws, they had to run the bikes lean. one thing they did to help this was to close the mufflers down. if you look into the tail pipe of any touring model, the left muffler is closed. we opened it up, and the heat problem went away. harley also revamped the downloads into the ecm to help the bikes run better due to them running too lean to start with, and the fact that most states use 10%-30% alcohol, making things even worse.

i hope this helps anyone who really cares.

by the way did i tell you i own 10 bikes, old harleys, and indians, plus an '07 FJR??

chiefj48

 

[turbodave_98]

Yep, still love Harley-Davidson™. In the portfolio, not in the garage.

+1 on the above. bought it initially at $13/share and before some splits. Yea for HD buyers, Keep it coming<lol>

 

[Bigboi]

Wonderful remarks, fellas. Now do you think the Harley haters will shut up?

 

[PapaUtah]

The rear end on my Venture Royale howls like a banshee above 70. I might try going with a heavier weight lube back there and see if it quiets the beast. Recommended is 80/90, but I might give the 85/145 a try. I assume the Belray is a synthetic? The Venture is 17 years old so I am not worried about warranty issues...

 

[madmike2]

The FJR LOVES corners... the only problem is figuring out how to get to SD or Utah this summer from Ohio on roads with more than one slight curve every 20 or 40 miles! <G>Mary

Mary, you could do what we do when crossing the desert...when we come to a turn in the road, we practice our turn-signal usage. :yahoo:

BTW, one of my riding chaps has a soft tail Deuce and loves it.

 

[Mighty Joe]

More news from sales floor…and an interesting complaint on the 2007’s…
First, sales quips from a recent analyst survey of Harley-Davidson™ dealers

“Selling a Harley-Davidson™ is rapidly becoming a price battle instead of an experience or luxury.”

“People are really dissatisfied with trade-in values of used Harley-Davidsons™ due to the “technology” upgrade on the 2007s. It's keeping many buyers from actually following through since they don't have 80% of the purchase price in a trade anymore, they've got 50-55%.”

“Too many 07s in inventory. Customer interest in 07s has definitely waned in the past few months.”

“Sell-through on the 07s is definitely underperforming expectations.”

“Lots of customer excitement, but it hasn’t really turned into sales.”

“We sell our 07s at below sticker price by giving them $1-2K in free gear/accessories with a purchase.”

Have we heard this complaint before???

“I am hearing a lot of customer complaints about heat & noise on the new bikes. The 6th gear is machined differently than the lower gears, so it makes more noise.”

“2007 “technology” is giving people trouble with heat from the engine and lots of excess noise on the transmission. I've had a couple of customers raise hell about it but haven't had to take any returns…yet.”

“Lots of riders are complaining of engine heat and transmission noise problems with 07s. I don't think that the new “technology” has been proven yet in the minds of the buyers. I would be lying if I said that I'd even consider customer interest moderate.”

And people complain about heat on the FJR???

Hope Milwaukee isn’t the canary in the coal mine…

ok folks here we go,

i've been the service manager for h-d for the past five years. i've been riding harleys since '79, and i've owned over 100 harleys. it's true harley has out run the demand of their bikes. the 300k bikes they build are already sold to the dealerships a year in advance. it's up to the dealers to sell them, thus the discounts. when i went to the winter dealer show back in '03, we were told to take a lesson from the car market. we were told that 92% of the future profits were going to come from the used bikes, and service. most harley dealers didn't believe it, and just did business as normal. now the dealerships that didn't heed the warning are discounting the bikes big time trying to stay afloat. i could go on about this for hours, but i won't.

as far as the tranny, jims designed them, not baker. the reasons they make noise is: two gears are straight cut (#'s 1 & 5 ) , and they put motor oil in the trans to break them in. i had my techs put belray 85/140 trans fluid, and the noise went away. i've been using belray for over 25 yrs.

now lets look at the heat issue. to meet epa laws, they had to run the bikes lean. one thing they did to help this was to close the mufflers down. if you look into the tail pipe of any touring model, the left muffler is closed. we opened it up, and the heat problem went away. harley also revamped the downloads into the ecm to help the bikes run better due to them running too lean to start with, and the fact that most states use 10%-30% alcohol, making things even worse.

i hope this helps anyone who really cares.

by the way did i tell you i own 10 bikes, old harleys, and indians, plus an '07 FJR??

chiefj48

Chief, You are my kind of guy! My first bike was a '76 sportster! Thats right an AMF HD! I've had numerous bikes (HD's) since then. But, I purchased on '05 FJR and it changed my life and I take delivery this week on my new '07 FJR!

I still have my Street Glide! May keep her may sell her.

Do I still like Harleys? Sure, but these dealers pissed a lot of people off when they were running fat and treating customers like a$$ hats. So, hello Mammy Yammy. They seem to appreciate my business!

MJ