Inside help vs. Outside help

[jwhite518]

Why is it verboten for a rally rider to receive outside routing help, but not for two riders to team up? Seems that by teaming you get some of the same benefits of the outside help: multiple heads discussing routes, division of labor, etc. If you're riding together you can hold each others flags, help lift a bike or fix a flat, etc. The top two spots in this year's 1088 were won by a team. Surely there was some teaming going on in this year's IBR Top Ten. It's a smart approach. I'm not crying foul, just asking a question.

 

[Rogue]

IMO a rally is a test of the rider or riders riding and routing skills. If you have two or more riders team up that is a decision of participants of the rally.

If a rider hires/convinces/??? a crack team to do all his planning and routing for him while he sleeps that is a rider and not a rally participant.

 

[RoadGlide]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

 

[Indian Scout]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

What I want to know, is this years winner one of the Rally Rider group or one of the riders for a planning team.

 

[Bounce]

Yes he was.

 

[boogahboogah]

C'mon Bounce, which is it ? (BTW I know you won't answer, but I just had to ask...)

 

[rdcyclist]

You bring up an interesting point Jerry. You'd think two riders teaming up could run the board but so far none of the two rider teams has done that. It may just be that there hasn't been two rider team good enough yet but so far experience has shown two bikes are less enough efficient to obviate any planning advantage they gain by working together.

And you guys can extrapolate your answer to that other question from this statement...

 

[stryg8r]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

What I want to know, is this years winner one of the Rally Rider group or one of the riders for a planning team.

During the finisher’s banquet Mr. Kneebone asked four riders to stand. He said these four riders are examples of those that did there own routing, placed very well, and would be the standard for future Iron Butt Rallies. Three of these riders were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, and Marty Leir. I hope that answers the question.

 

[rickcorwn]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

What I want to know, is this years winner one of the Rally Rider group or one of the riders for a planning team.

During the finisher’s banquet Mr. Kneebone asked four riders to stand. He said these four riders are examples of those that did there own routing, placed very well, and would be the standard for future Iron Butt Rallies. Three of these riders were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, and Marty Leir. I hope that answers the question.

... and just to make sure all get credit where credit is due IIRC the fourth was the eighth place FJR rider Mike Evans :clapping:

 

[stryg8r]

... and just to make sure all get credit where credit is due IIRC the fourth was the eighth place FJR rider Mike Evans :clapping:

Thanks Rick...I couldn't remember the fourth rider. :dribble:

 

[rdcyclist]

During the finisher’s banquet Mr. Kneebone asked four riders to stand. He said these four riders are examples of those that did there own routing, placed very well, and would be the standard for future Iron Butt Rallies. Three of these riders were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, and Marty Leir. I hope that answers the question.

I don't know where you got your information but it is incorrect. The four riders given recognition for riding their own routes were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, Eric Jewell and Michael Evans.
Marty Leir did NOT receive this recognition.

 

[jwhite518]

Marty Leir did NOT receive this recognition.

From my observation at Mount Hamilton, Marty and Brett Donohue were riding as a team.

 

[FJR-Richie]

The four riders given recognition for riding their own routes were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, Eric Jewell and Michael Evans.
Marty Leir did NOT receive this recognition.

Okay here is what I hate about naming names - I (not having attended the banquet) could now be under the impression that these 4 were the only top ten finishers to not have any undue assistance. Are you kidding me? Common sense tells me Kneebone was just trying to emphasize how well these 4 rode buy themselves but I am sure it could leave others wondering as well...

 

[rdcyclist]

Okay here is what I hate about naming names - I (not having attended the banquet) could now be under the impression that these 4 were the only top ten finishers to not have any undue assistance. Are you kidding me? Common sense tells me Kneebone was just trying to emphasize how well these 4 rode buy themselves but I am sure it could leave others wondering as well...

I'm sure Warchild or one of the riders will step in here eventually but as I understand it, all of the finishers filled out a form outlining the help they received from non-participants. Apparently, this was a binding statement they signed. The recognition was based on this form and some other factors we are probably never going to privy to. And that's how it should be.
I do know that Tom Melchild and Alan Barbic rode most of the rally together. That's probably why they didn't get recognized with the others. I've heard some other things but they're second, third or fourth hand and so don't bear exposure here.

 

[Cal24Master]

Why is it verboten for a rally rider to receive outside routing help, but not for two riders to team up? Seems that by teaming you get some of the same benefits of the outside help: multiple heads discussing routes, division of labor, etc. If you're riding together you can hold each others flags, help lift a bike or fix a flat, etc. The top two spots in this year's 1088 were won by a team. Surely there was some teaming going on in this year's IBR Top Ten. It's a smart approach. I'm not crying foul, just asking a question.

Riding as a team of 2 people has it's advantages and disadvantages. The advantages, particularily in this IBR was that you could have 2 people entering the data in the computer instead of 1. That could cut the time in 1/2, saving about 2 hours of time. The disadvantage is that 2 riders ride slower than a rider alone. Stops increase by an average of about 5 minutes each. That can be significant in a 11 day event.

I rode with Alan Barbic this year. I think overall the benefits outweighed the negatives. We both finished very well.

 

[IronMaiden]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

What I want to know, is this years winner one of the Rally Rider group or one of the riders for a planning team.

During the finisher’s banquet Mr. Kneebone asked four riders to stand. He said these four riders are examples of those that did there own routing, placed very well, and would be the standard for future Iron Butt Rallies. Three of these riders were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, and Marty Leir. I hope that answers the question.

I must need my eyes checked, or my foggy memory cleared...the four riders I saw stand were Jim Owen, Jeff Earls, Eric Jewell & Mike Evans

 

[stryg8r]

Well said, Rogue! It doesn't matter how many riders are riding together as long as they are riding. It is very different to have someone else do your routing for you who isn't tired, wet, cold, sleep deprived, etc. Try to calculate the distance/time/fuel/miles after being on the road for 15 hours straight when your original plan has to be changed. That is what LD riding is about.

What I want to know, is this years winner one of the Rally Rider group or one of the riders for a planning team.

During the finisher’s banquet Mr. Kneebone asked four riders to stand. He said these four riders are examples of those that did there own routing, placed very well, and would be the standard for future Iron Butt Rallies. Three of these riders were Jim Owens, Jeff Earls, and Marty Leir. I hope that answers the question.

I must need my eyes checked, or my foggy memory cleared...the four riders I saw stand were Jim Owen, Jeff Earls, Eric Jewell & Mike Evans

Not you...I'm afraid it was my mistake. Must have been the excitement of seeing Marty win...that or too little sleep and too many Fat Tires. Although Marty could have easily been one of the riders Kneebone chose as an example....IMHO.

 

[Warchild]

I must need my eyes checked, or my foggy memory cleared...the four riders I saw stand were Jim Owen, Jeff Earls, Eric Jewell & Mike Evans

Correct. But you left out one: Greg Marbach.

MK was stating that these five riders (Jim, Jeff, Eric, Mike and Greg) were the top-placing solo riders.

These guys are my personal heroes. On Day One, I had Jim, Jeff or Eric picked to take the win.

 

[FJR-Richie]

MK was stating that these five riders (Jim, Jeff, Eric, Mike and Greg) were the top-placing solo riders.
These guys are my personal heroes. On Day One, I had Jim, Jeff or Eric picked to take the win.

Are you saying the rest of the top ten had help?? Marty Leir won this damn thing with help? Or am I on glue...