Intermittent Starting Issue On My 05

[b-bike393]

At times my 05 acts like it has very low battery voltage and barely cranks over.

And right after that it starts perfectly.

I haven't looked at any of the wiring or battery yet. Though I'd post it here and see if anyone has had this same problem before.

 

[mcatrophy]

Check the battery connections are tight.

 

[philter]

At times my 05 acts like it has very low battery voltage and barely cranks over.And right after that it starts perfectly.

I haven't looked at any of the wiring or battery yet. Though I'd post it here and see if anyone has had this same problem before.

My 03 Gen. 1 never started real fast like my Gen. 2 07, I don't think my 07 would even start if it cranked as slow as my 03 did.

Toward the end, the 03 would hardly crank when really hot, even with a new battery.

Never figured it out, checked all grounds etc., new battery like I said.

It would crank pretty good when cold. Just sayin.

I always assumed the starter was old and weak, and I sure didn't want to go there, so I sold it and bought the 07. LOL

 

[wfooshee]

At times my 05 acts like it has very low battery voltage and barely cranks over.And right after that it starts perfectly.

I haven't looked at any of the wiring or battery yet. Though I'd post it here and see if anyone has had this same problem before.

Is it different when hot vs. cold? But the battery terminal bolts should be checked, both for corrosion and for being good and tight. You'd be surprised how loose they can get and still (mostly) work!

 

[Cyclepath]

I would wonder about a problem with the starter itself. Maybe have that electrically load tested...

 

[blassoff]

Same problem on my 04, but only when hot. However, after 14 years of use and mild abuse, it's due for a complete connection cleaning. I'm sure there's corrosion deep in the bowels of the wiring harness. Pull the tupperware, pop the tank, and have a go at it. Probably do a valve check while I'm there..All bikes need a little love now and then...Baz

 

[b-bike393]

All great information.
I'll dive into this issue once my rotator cuff repair allows.
Thanks gents.

 

[Eagle Six]

But the battery terminal bolts should be checked, both for corrosion and for being good and tight. You'd be surprised how loose they can get and still (mostly) work!

Same with my 07'. Started fine, but run with a cranky throttle, until one day, slow crank, no start. Terminals looked good, but positive was only finger tight. Light corrosion when I removed for cleaning and then tighten. Afterwards, start as normal and run smooth.

 

[philter]

All great information.I'll dive into this issue once my rotator cuff repair allows.

Thanks gents.

My advice is to take it slow with rotator cuff, at least my doctor warned me a hundred times when mine was done that if I messed up I could tear it up again. Liquidsilver has had both done now and hardly waited any time at all, and it worked out for him. LOL.

 

[Harald]

I've seen a few starters that had a failed oil seal, which resulted in oil getting inside and gumming up carbon particles in the slots between poles. My 07 with over 100,000 miles was starting slow and sometimes wouldn't start when hot. A simple test is to use a clamp on DC ammeter on the big wire that goes from batter to starter relay to starter. If you see 100 amps or more, you're starter is toast.

I pulled my starter, which is a big job because the throttle bodies have to come out to get access to it. Sure enough, the oil seal had failed. I found oil seals online (Yamaha doesn't sell them, although they do sell other starter parts) and rebuilt the starter. Works fine now. Going from memory here, but on the bench the failed starter pulled over 80 amps and the rebuild resulted in less than 20 amps. I have a post somewhere on this forum about my rebuild.

 

[b-bike393]

I've seen a few starters that had a failed oil seal, which resulted in oil getting inside and gumming up carbon particles in the slots between poles. My 07 with over 100,000 miles was starting slow and sometimes wouldn't start when hot. A simple test is to use a clamp on DC ammeter on the big wire that goes from batter to starter relay to starter. If you see 100 amps or more, you're starter is toast.
I pulled my starter, which is a big job because the throttle bodies have to come out to get access to it. Sure enough, the oil seal had failed. I found oil seals online (Yamaha doesn't sell them, although they do sell other starter parts) and rebuilt the starter. Works fine now. Going from memory here, but on the bench the failed starter pulled over 80 amps and the rebuild resulted in less than 20 amps. I have a post somewhere on this forum about my rebuild.

Any part numbers available for the oil seal.

 

[FJRay]

I've seen a few starters that had a failed oil seal, which resulted in oil getting inside and gumming up carbon particles in the slots between poles. My 07 with over 100,000 miles was starting slow and sometimes wouldn't start when hot. A simple test is to use a clamp on DC ammeter on the big wire that goes from batter to starter relay to starter. If you see 100 amps or more, you're starter is toast.
I pulled my starter, which is a big job because the throttle bodies have to come out to get access to it. Sure enough, the oil seal had failed. I found oil seals online (Yamaha doesn't sell them, although they do sell other starter parts) and rebuilt the starter. Works fine now. Going from memory here, but on the bench the failed starter pulled over 80 amps and the rebuild resulted in less than 20 amps. I have a post somewhere on this forum about my rebuild.

Any part numbers available for the oil seal.

The numbers on the seal represent the size in MM. ID, OD and thickness. Any bearing house can get them. If you can't source them let me know and I'll see if I still have some.

 

[b-bike393]

I've seen a few starters that had a failed oil seal, which resulted in oil getting inside and gumming up carbon particles in the slots between poles. My 07 with over 100,000 miles was starting slow and sometimes wouldn't start when hot. A simple test is to use a clamp on DC ammeter on the big wire that goes from batter to starter relay to starter. If you see 100 amps or more, you're starter is toast.
I pulled my starter, which is a big job because the throttle bodies have to come out to get access to it. Sure enough, the oil seal had failed. I found oil seals online (Yamaha doesn't sell them, although they do sell other starter parts) and rebuilt the starter. Works fine now. Going from memory here, but on the bench the failed starter pulled over 80 amps and the rebuild resulted in less than 20 amps. I have a post somewhere on this forum about my rebuild.

Update:

I removed the starter (You're right Harald. BIG JOB!!!)

There was just a tad bit of oil inside the seal but no oil or carbon between the posts.

To be on the safe side I took the starter motor internals over to the air compressor and blew everything out.

Prior to reinstalling the starter motor I bench tested for proper operation. Everything worked fine.

The one thing I didn't do was the amp check. In 20-20 hindsight, maybe I should have.

After getting everything back on the bike it refuses to start.

It's still the same type issue. Cranks over like a very weak battery. Also, there is a whining noise coming from the starter relay every time I attempt to start.

All the terminals are clean and tight. Plus, I cleaned all wiring plugs during reassemble.

Other than doing the amp check on the starter motor, are there any other things I should look at?

 

[Harald]

You might have a bad starter relay. You can check it with your volt meter. Put the positive meter lead to the wire coming from the battery to the starter relay and put the negative meter lead to the wire going to the starter. Watch the meter when starting. You should see battery voltage before hitting the starter and virtually nothing once the starter is spinning. If you see any voltage, this would point to dirty contacts in the relay causing a voltage drop in the relay. If voltage is dropping in the relay, there's less available for the starter and it'll run slow or not at all depending on how much is lost in the relay. I'd say anything over 0.5 volts is cause for replacing the relay.

 

[b-bike393]

Harald,
Great advice. Thanks.
What you've convinced me to do was ordering a Volt Meter. (I know, I know... I should already have one)
Even before checking the starter relay I've ordered a new one. Their expense is very little in the big picture of keeping my loved 05 FJR running.
However I will check the original relay if for no other reason but gaining some education.
As of right now I'm diving back into the bowels of the bike. I have the extra time available so I figured I'd remove the starter motor and take it into a local shop that specializes in starters, alternators, generators only. If anyone can give my starter a clean bill of health, they can.

Another question I have is:
When doing the first tare-down I noticed "some" corrosion on some of the electrical plugs. Prior to reassembly I cleaned each plug as best as I could. Is there any product, (spray, liquid or otherwise) available for cleaning the corrosion?
I have some electromotive spray but was hesitant to use it due to the directions that said to "use caution around plastic".

 

[Harald]

Are you on the wet side of Oregon? Being up here near Tacoma, we get a lot of rain and I ride daily so I know about corroded connectors on the FJR. I've been Spider bit, but you don't have to worry about that on your 05. There is a big connector under the tank by the steering head that I hear is a common corrosion problem for Gen I bikes.

Connectors can be tough to clean. I use electrical/contact cleaner to spray them clean and if I can get a q-tip in there to scrub I'll do that. Sockets get cleaned by spraying cleaner in and then inserting the mating plug and sliding it in and out to try and scrub off any crud. Finish with another blast of cleaner. Then I highly recommend gooping a liberal amount of Dielectric grease into the connector on both side before reconnecting. The grease don't short out the pins and provides a barrier to water/crud getting to the contact surfaces and corroding them. Other than a failed sidestand switch (lots of fun when the bikes dies at 70mph just as you merge into traffic on the freeway on a bridge with almost no shoulder to pull over to), I haven't had any electrical issues in the last 100,000 miles on my 07 since I greased most of my connectors.

 

[mech 1 twa]

Battery terminal cleaner works pretty good. Spray type and a little wire brushing cleans up most stuff. Dielectric grease is best used on sealing surface just to keep water out its not a good conductor for terminals. Clean it up and allow to dry contact cleaner will remove battery cleaner.

Some cleaners eat plastic bits.. Find a safe one.

 

[b-bike393]

Update #2:
After removing the starter motor for the second time

. I took the starter to our local expert shop and his bench test resulted in my starter pulling VERY HIGH amps. He went into the back of his storage room and located a starter that closely resembled mine. From that information he was able to rotate the starter body close to the exact position. He ran an amp check and I pulled right at 40 amps. He then rotated the body once more and it pulled 20 amps. He slightly rotated the body once more to see if it still improved and the amps went up to 35+.
So, the body was rotated back to the location where it was at 20 amps. DONE!
Now, I have put match marks on the housings and body "IF" I ever have to do this again...(

I hope not )
Doing the reinstall after cleaning the contacts again and then applying Dielectric Grease at each plug.
Once again, A big THANK YOU to Harald as well as the rest of the gang here for their input.
Makes things much easier.