Is the EPA serious?
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BwanaDik
Well-known member
The four gallons is an attempt to ensure the percentage of ethanol is below a certain value when using blending pumps
"These incidents are most likely when a small quantity of fuel is dispensed following a customer who dispensed a significantly different blend. For example, when a customer selects E85 and is followed by a customer who selects E10 and pumps two gallons for a motorcycle, tests have shown that the first gallon pumped for the motorcycle could contain as much as 27% ethanol. "
This is for E85 pumps. E15 ethanol contamination will be significantly less.
Clicky
Blender pump operation
Linky
This issue in another form has been around for years (from 2008). More volume than I would have thought so yes, four gallons may be necessary to get the ethanol percentage to an acceptable value.
"According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel. "
WSJ
Destined for NEPRT or worse
"These incidents are most likely when a small quantity of fuel is dispensed following a customer who dispensed a significantly different blend. For example, when a customer selects E85 and is followed by a customer who selects E10 and pumps two gallons for a motorcycle, tests have shown that the first gallon pumped for the motorcycle could contain as much as 27% ethanol. "
This is for E85 pumps. E15 ethanol contamination will be significantly less.
Clicky
Blender pump operation
Linky
This issue in another form has been around for years (from 2008). More volume than I would have thought so yes, four gallons may be necessary to get the ethanol percentage to an acceptable value.
"According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel. "
WSJ
Destined for NEPRT or worse
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Bustanut joker
Well-known member
Hell I don't care.. If the alcohol comes from corn squeezin's I'm drinking it :dribble:
rickysnickers
Well-known member
That's going to be interesting to say the least. With the hot weather and lack of rain, the corn belt is sweltering. The USDA is predicting quite low corn totals. Here's the article:
Rick
ST. LOUIS (Associated Press) --
The government slashed its expectations for U.S. corn and soybean production for the second consecutive month Friday, predicting what could be the lowest average corn yield in more than 15 years as the worst drought in decades scorches major farm states.
Nonetheless, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, in a statement supplied exclusively to The Associated Press, insisted U.S. farmers and ranchers remain resilient and the country will continue to meet demand as the global leader in farm exports and food aid.
The U.S. Agriculture Department cut its projected U.S. corn production to 10.8 billion bushels, down 17 percent from its forecast last month of nearly 13 billion bushels and 13 percent less than last year. That also would be the lowest production since 2006.
The USDA, in its World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimates report, now expects corn growers to average 123.4 bushels per acre, down 24 bushels from last year in what would be the lowest average yield in 17 years.
Soybean production is now forecast at 2.69 billion bushels, a 12 percent decline from last year and well off the 3.05 billion bushels the USDA had expected last month. The expected average yield of 36.1 bushels per acre would be the lowest since 2003.
Corn farmers had expected a record year just months ago, when they sowed 96.4 million acres _ the most since 1937. The USDA now predicts only 87.4 million acres will be harvested, although it notes the crop still could be the eighth-biggest in U.S. history. That is due in part to hardier corn varieties, which are better able to withstand drought and heat.
"I have to be honest with you, I'm totally stunned we have corn with green stalks and leaves after going through weeks of 105-degree temperature," said Garry Niemeyer, the National Corn Growers Association's president, who has 1,200 acres of corn and 800 acres of soybeans near Auburn, Ill. He added, "Our corn yield normally would be about 190 bushels per acre. This year, if I get 110 I'd be thrilled to death."
On Thursday, the U.N. food agency drew a direct correlation between price hikes in basic food commodities and the months of parched conditions in farm states. The Rome-based Food and Agriculture Organization said in its monthly price report that its overall food price index climbed 6 percentage points in July, although it was well below the peak reached in February 2011. The FAO's index, considered a global benchmark used to track market volatility and price trends, measures the monthly price changes for a basket of food, including cereals, oils and fats, meat, dairy products and sugar.
Severe drought punishing the U.S.'s midsection has sent corn prices soaring, and expectations of crop damage from dry weather in Russia sent world wheat prices up 19 percent, according to the FAO. Spikes in the prices of staple foods have led to riots in some countries in recent years.
Vilsack tried to tamp down such concerns Friday.
"Americans shouldn't see immediate increases in food prices due to the drought," Vilsack said as he visited drought-stricken Nebraska. "What is important going forward is that we continue to do all we can to help the farmers, ranchers, small businesses and communities being impacted by this drought."
Rick Whitacre, a professor of agricultural economics at Illinois State University, said consumers may see modest price increases at grocery stores because corn is found in everything from cosmetics to cereal, soda, cake mixes and candy bars. He said the biggest price jump is likely to be a 4 to 6 percent increase for beef and pork, as many ranchers have sold livestock as pastures dry up and feed costs rise.
"You're going to see the ripple of this go out for quite a distance," Whitacre said.
The U.S. leads the world in exporting corn, soybeans and wheat, and the surging prices are most likely to hurt poor, food-importing countries, said a study by British charity Oxfam issued on the eve of the U.N. report.
Vilsack said he has pressed Congress to pass a comprehensive, multi-year farm bill "that gives farmers and ranchers more certainty in this tough time, while giving USDA tools to help those producers affected by weather-related events beyond their control."
The USDA foreshadowed the new, lower yield projections earlier this week, when it reported half of the nation's corn crop and 39 percent of its soybeans were rated poor or very poor. The nation hasn't seen drought damage this bad since 1988.
Friday's USDA report amplified the troubling picture painted a day earlier when the latest weekly U.S. Drought Monitor map showed drought conditions continue to worsen in key farming states in the Great Plains. That update showed the expanse in extreme or exceptional drought _ the two worst classifications _ in Iowa jump from less than 31 percent to nearly 70 percent. Illinois, Kansas and Nebraska also drought conditions deepen.
Federal scientists say this July was the hottest on record, smoking out even the sweltering temperatures set in the Dust Bowl in the 1930s. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported Wednesday that the stretch from August 2011 through July this year was the warmest 12-month period the U.S. has experienced.
Rick
ST. LOUIS (Associated Press) --
The government slashed its expectations for U.S. corn and soybean production for the second consecutive month Friday, predicting what could be the lowest average corn yield in more than 15 years as the worst drought in decades scorches major farm states.
Nonetheless, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, in a statement supplied exclusively to The Associated Press, insisted U.S. farmers and ranchers remain resilient and the country will continue to meet demand as the global leader in farm exports and food aid.
The U.S. Agriculture Department cut its projected U.S. corn production to 10.8 billion bushels, down 17 percent from its forecast last month of nearly 13 billion bushels and 13 percent less than last year. That also would be the lowest production since 2006.
The USDA, in its World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimates report, now expects corn growers to average 123.4 bushels per acre, down 24 bushels from last year in what would be the lowest average yield in 17 years.
Soybean production is now forecast at 2.69 billion bushels, a 12 percent decline from last year and well off the 3.05 billion bushels the USDA had expected last month. The expected average yield of 36.1 bushels per acre would be the lowest since 2003.
Corn farmers had expected a record year just months ago, when they sowed 96.4 million acres _ the most since 1937. The USDA now predicts only 87.4 million acres will be harvested, although it notes the crop still could be the eighth-biggest in U.S. history. That is due in part to hardier corn varieties, which are better able to withstand drought and heat.
"I have to be honest with you, I'm totally stunned we have corn with green stalks and leaves after going through weeks of 105-degree temperature," said Garry Niemeyer, the National Corn Growers Association's president, who has 1,200 acres of corn and 800 acres of soybeans near Auburn, Ill. He added, "Our corn yield normally would be about 190 bushels per acre. This year, if I get 110 I'd be thrilled to death."
On Thursday, the U.N. food agency drew a direct correlation between price hikes in basic food commodities and the months of parched conditions in farm states. The Rome-based Food and Agriculture Organization said in its monthly price report that its overall food price index climbed 6 percentage points in July, although it was well below the peak reached in February 2011. The FAO's index, considered a global benchmark used to track market volatility and price trends, measures the monthly price changes for a basket of food, including cereals, oils and fats, meat, dairy products and sugar.
Severe drought punishing the U.S.'s midsection has sent corn prices soaring, and expectations of crop damage from dry weather in Russia sent world wheat prices up 19 percent, according to the FAO. Spikes in the prices of staple foods have led to riots in some countries in recent years.
Vilsack tried to tamp down such concerns Friday.
"Americans shouldn't see immediate increases in food prices due to the drought," Vilsack said as he visited drought-stricken Nebraska. "What is important going forward is that we continue to do all we can to help the farmers, ranchers, small businesses and communities being impacted by this drought."
Rick Whitacre, a professor of agricultural economics at Illinois State University, said consumers may see modest price increases at grocery stores because corn is found in everything from cosmetics to cereal, soda, cake mixes and candy bars. He said the biggest price jump is likely to be a 4 to 6 percent increase for beef and pork, as many ranchers have sold livestock as pastures dry up and feed costs rise.
"You're going to see the ripple of this go out for quite a distance," Whitacre said.
The U.S. leads the world in exporting corn, soybeans and wheat, and the surging prices are most likely to hurt poor, food-importing countries, said a study by British charity Oxfam issued on the eve of the U.N. report.
Vilsack said he has pressed Congress to pass a comprehensive, multi-year farm bill "that gives farmers and ranchers more certainty in this tough time, while giving USDA tools to help those producers affected by weather-related events beyond their control."
The USDA foreshadowed the new, lower yield projections earlier this week, when it reported half of the nation's corn crop and 39 percent of its soybeans were rated poor or very poor. The nation hasn't seen drought damage this bad since 1988.
Friday's USDA report amplified the troubling picture painted a day earlier when the latest weekly U.S. Drought Monitor map showed drought conditions continue to worsen in key farming states in the Great Plains. That update showed the expanse in extreme or exceptional drought _ the two worst classifications _ in Iowa jump from less than 31 percent to nearly 70 percent. Illinois, Kansas and Nebraska also drought conditions deepen.
Federal scientists say this July was the hottest on record, smoking out even the sweltering temperatures set in the Dust Bowl in the 1930s. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported Wednesday that the stretch from August 2011 through July this year was the warmest 12-month period the U.S. has experienced.
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SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
Ok, so this is not meant to be a debate on ethanol. Please keep it focused and relevant to riding a motorcycle.
What happens when my ***** ******* step-pappy pulls up to one of these pumps and starts pumping away only to realize he only needs 2.5 gallons?
I guess the remaining 1.5 gallons will be all over his bike and the ground?
What happens when my ***** ******* step-pappy pulls up to one of these pumps and starts pumping away only to realize he only needs 2.5 gallons?
I guess the remaining 1.5 gallons will be all over his bike and the ground?
Bungie
FrostBack #2 - IBA # 44620
Bustanut joker
Well-known member
No nugget head.. That's what the topcase is for.
Valid point though. Can't see how this can actually be enforced on murdercycles and small tanked vehicles
BwanaDik
Well-known member
True. Here's the actual letter. It does appear to be a requirement. I looked thru the "Misfueling Mitigation Plans" several times and still can't figure out what they mean.
EPA Letter
It also appears that you're actually breaking the law if you do.
So what happens if you run out of fuel in front of a station that only has E15? :angry: Check out the sticker on the right at the top
Sticker
EPA Letter
It also appears that you're actually breaking the law if you do.
So what happens if you run out of fuel in front of a station that only has E15? :angry: Check out the sticker on the right at the topSticker
squeezer
Squirrelly Geezer
I sent that one in a few days ago. It took about 30 seconds. This reg does not seem well thought out.
dcarver
Well-known member
Complaint sent.
PanAmerican
Well-known member
The government knows what's best for us.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
The city of Albuquerque began using E85 fuel in every one of their Flex Fuel vehicles, including police cars. The cars and trucks, regardless of assignment began burning through fuel pumps about every 10k miles.
Remember, those pumps are supposed to be designed for that crap. What's gonna happen when it gets into a regular fuel system??
Last I heard, Albuquerque was in the process of giving up on the E85 baloney. They did the same with CNG cars when that was becoming all the rage. Those had their own issues and got mostly scrapped.
Remember, those pumps are supposed to be designed for that crap. What's gonna happen when it gets into a regular fuel system??
Last I heard, Albuquerque was in the process of giving up on the E85 baloney. They did the same with CNG cars when that was becoming all the rage. Those had their own issues and got mostly scrapped.
This thread is about E15, blending, and the issue with motorcycles....not E85 or cars. Let's try and keep it on track as the OP asked. Thx.
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C&C
Well-known member
The law 'they' should have written was that no fuel, higher than E-10, can be dispensed from a single hose pump, unless it is a dedicated pump/hose.
Trying to flush an existing (single) pump/hose, through legislation, is just plain ignorant.
Trying to flush an existing (single) pump/hose, through legislation, is just plain ignorant.
ndivita
Well-known member
I weep for the future.True. Here's the actual letter. It does appear to be a requirement. I looked thru the "Misfueling Mitigation Plans" several times and still can't figure out what they mean.
EPA Letter
It also appears that you're actually breaking the law if you do.
Sticker
Last edited by a moderator:
rickysnickers
Well-known member
Skooter,
My comment wasn't meant to start a debate or be a political commentary. Sorry if it came across that way. I was merely trying show that the lack of corn will be another way of jacking up fuel prices more since they are starting to rely on E-whatever more and and more.
Rick
My comment wasn't meant to start a debate or be a political commentary. Sorry if it came across that way. I was merely trying show that the lack of corn will be another way of jacking up fuel prices more since they are starting to rely on E-whatever more and and more.
Rick
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
The 4-gallon requirement is a cop-out by the EPA. By passing responsibility to the consumer for the grade of fuel they receive, they avoid a requirement for stations to use non-blending pumps, perhaps a great expense for the station.
EPA: See, Mr. Consumer, if you don't pump at least 4 gallons, you can't be assured not having more ethanol than you're looking for. We can't figure out how else to do this, so if you don't pump 4, we'll cite you for it.
So when you ride up on your 3.5-gallon bike and only need maybe 2.5, pump the first gallon and a half on the ground. Costs you 5 or 6 bucks, but at least you're not breaking the (new) law....
Write your congressman and tell him (or her) how stupid this is. Rather like the thing a few years ago where kids couldn't have things (or even parts for things) with lead in them, like dirt bikes; that got fixed.
EPA: See, Mr. Consumer, if you don't pump at least 4 gallons, you can't be assured not having more ethanol than you're looking for. We can't figure out how else to do this, so if you don't pump 4, we'll cite you for it.
So when you ride up on your 3.5-gallon bike and only need maybe 2.5, pump the first gallon and a half on the ground. Costs you 5 or 6 bucks, but at least you're not breaking the (new) law....
Write your congressman and tell him (or her) how stupid this is. Rather like the thing a few years ago where kids couldn't have things (or even parts for things) with lead in them, like dirt bikes; that got fixed.
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
You don't think it's relevant that cars DESIGNED to withstand E85 are failing under its use, but we're supposed to put E15 in our motorcycles that are not designed for it and hope for the best. What exactly do you think is coming after E15 if things continue the way they are going?This thread is about E15, blending, and the issue with motorcycles....not E85 or cars. Let's try and keep it on track as the OP asked. Thx.
Let's see: First, Regular gasoline. Then Regular and Unleaded. Then only Unleaded. Then Unleaded with 10% Ethanol during the winter months. Then 10% Ethanol all the time. Now E15 coming so "some" places and bad regulation to go along with it. How long until it is E15 everywhere, and then E85 required for all vehicles?
It shouldn't be that hard to follow along...
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