It's so hard to say goodbye--to Remi / they make it worse!

[Silverbullet]

Three years ago and 8 days before we were leaving for our annual 2 weeks bike trip, I managed to break two bones in my left hand. I remember thinking how much all this sucks while sitting at the hospital looking at my x-ray and having it explained to me I wasn't going to be riding my motorcycle anywhere, anytime soon. The specialist was brought in and he further explained to me the potential hazzards of not letting him make the (according to him) necessary repairs surgically. Certainly to listen to him tell it, I would deeply regret not becoming his "customer."

The next day I went and saw my regular M.D. His opinion was quite different in regards to my long term outcome without surgery but he still wanted to cast it up to keep it stable and protect the hand from further injury. I told him that all sounded just dandy but I still couldn't ride my bike in a cast and I was going on my bike trip, on schedule, so what were my options beyond the cast? I left his office with a brace to stabilize the hand, which I wore for a day or two and that was enough of that for me. I took the bike trip as planned and considered riding the bike as my "physical therapy" using the same care and caution with my hand as I had done with a broken leg many years before. Today my hand is fine and although I can't predict what the future may bring in regards to arthritis, I'm not convinced that wasn't still a potential future issue even with the surgery.

A decision like this is a personal one however and anyone elses experience is probably only usefull for reference as YOU will be the one living with the results. I would think a break at the joint is a more complex issue than a break in the middle of a bone and making a decision as to the best way to treat the injury isn't made any easier when you are trying to figure out if the Doctor is recommending a surgical repair because it offers the best potential outcome or it's a form of CYA in our malpractice lawsuit happy society or even a bit of both. I've found since it's my body, I have the most at stake and will ultimately have to live with the outcome, it has been worth the time to educate myself as much as possible before letting anyone go "tinkering under the hood" so to speak. YMMV.

 

[ScottyUSN]

I will not offer opinions on how to pay for your injuries as others seem to have that well covered.

But regarding the prospect of "surgery" I will weigh in, as I am employed in the fringes of the medical field and I do get to see a lot of what happens "behind the scenes" (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!).

Many orthopedic surgeries only occur for one reason, to make the orthopedic surgeon richer. You currently have the option of recording your injuries and then waiting to see what happens when your body tries to heal naturally. Do that! You can always have corrective surgery later if it is actually necessary, and it is highly unlikely it will set you back any more than the one they are proposing now. They can give you success rate info for the surgery they are proposing, but that is contaminated by the number of cases that would have healed naturally. There are also alternatives to surgery, but the American Orthos will not even consider them in most cases because they all make their daily bread by cutting people open. In other fields that would be called a conflict of interests. You decide.

I wish you good luck, my friend. You are a really good guy (I know) and I wish you the best, however you should decide

I definitely disagree with most of this advice!!! Waiting for your body to heal naturally is great, but if it doesn't heal naturally, you've potentially got some real problems, and you get to start over healing all over again, after your delayed surgery, as noted in several examples above. You could be talking years here, "to get it right".

For example, I got to have my ankle "re broken" so it could be fixed correctly. FUN!!

Not all "orthos" are "crooks"!

No matter what you decide, good luck!

+1

While on a remote tour of duty I broke my ankle badly. I was too young to argue and push for the 1 hour ride to the hospital. I was given Vitamin M (Motrin) an ace wrap and a cane to walk with. I walked on a broken ankle for a week.

An ankle that needs surgery and is ignored will not heal correctly. Potentially will need to be re-broken in an "attempt" to realign things. This didn't happen for me and I suffered with a screwed up ankle and weak/stretched ligaments for MANY years.

Imagine stepping on a slightly off set piece of pavement and rolling your ankle and falling down multiple times a year just doing day to day activities.

Not to mention new pains and the Arthritis that will follow.

Get a second opinion. Find a doctor that has a track record. Get a full explanation of the procedure, and expectations. Go to your second opinion (with no mention of doc #1) If you see and hear a pattern that sounds like Doc #1. Odds are the procedure is the best option. Also ask what to expect if you just let it heal naturally.

 

[Gumby]

I worked in Othopedics for 12 years; both in a clinical and operating room setting. I would recommend a foot and ankle surgeon (board certified). The problem with a ankle is that even if it is a few milimeters off you will destroy the joint. The lining of the joint (articular surface is very fragile) and if distrubed will die. You can develope avascular nacrosis (loss of blood to the bone and joint)if not treated properly. If you develop AV the final result will be a fusion of the joint. So now that I have scared the crap out of you, please see a specialist and get a second or third opinion. This is a decision is not a easy one but a life altering one that you can count on.

Gumby.

 

[yamafitter]

...But regarding the prospect of "surgery" I will weigh in, as I am employed in the fringes of the medical field and I do get to see a lot of what happens "behind the scenes" (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!).

Many orthopedic surgeries only occur for one reason, to make the orthopedic surgeon richer...

While there is evidence that some surgeons are "cut happy" there are orthopedic surgeons that have the experience and knowledge to give you good advise as to the need for surgery. The trick is to be able to know who they are.

We have a fracture clinic relatively close by. One of the members of our club is a nurse with the clinic and has recommended various surgeons over others. I have followed this person's advise on the few occassions that I have required the services of the fracture clinic and the outcomes sofar worked out well (rotator cuff tear, fractured ankle & leg (same crash), numerous knee scopes leading to a total knee replacement).

When I fractured the ankle the ER doctor and the technican at the fracture clinic both stated that the ankle would require surgery. After checking the x-rays it was the orthopedic surgeon that stated that the alignment was good and given my other health issues it would probably be better to cast the leg / ankle and let it heal naturally rather than start chopping.

 

[Fred W]

The best advice that is coming out in consensus seems to be the one to be sure to get a "second opinion". My own life experiences have soured me on ortho surgeons, but clearly they aren't all bad. I'm sure that even the ones who are "cut happy", as yamafitter put it, are recommending what they think is best for the patient (in their own minds). But, if there is only one tool in your toolbox, that's the one you'll want to use all of the time.

If there is any chance to avoid the surgery and still have the joint heal right and not cause problems, it seems worth trying to me. If the damage is so severe that surgery is an absolute necessity, then do your homework and try to find the best damn cutter you can.

 

[Heber Guy]

65 years old here. Lots of arthritis in hands, elbows, wrists, shoulders and I possess 2 artificial knees. So 2 years ago I was riding in Chile on a dirt road about 30mph when the front tire lost air and the bike went full lock. Everything went into slow motion as I was hanging off the side of the bike and I was thinking "I can't believe I am crashing at 30mph". The bike bounced off my ankle and broke both bones and tore both ligaments completely. So I am lying there in the middle of no were at the foothills of the Andes when a young man stops on his bicycle and starts speaking to me in English. He says "Sir may I examine you. I am a doctor." He took of my boot and the foot looked like it was going to fall off the end of the leg. This part of Chile was very clean and without litter but nearby was a piece of cardboard and he constructed a splint with the cardboard and ace bandage he had on his bike. Then he said " Sir if you trust me I will give you an injection that will stop the pain for 8 hours." He got a yes to that question. By now a man stopped with a pickup and said he would provide needed transportation for me. I asked the doctor if I could pay him and he said no. I asked could I buy your dinner and he said no. He did say "I am a doctor and this is what I am supposed to do. Your thanks are enough for me." Well, local hospital with caring people but little in the way of medical help we tend to expect and a doctor who told me to fly home and have surgery. 2 days of local paperwork and airline travel I am back in Arkansas. Went to the clinic that did my knees and they said surgery was needed to align and plate the fractures. Ligaments have an equal chance of recovery with or without surgery but mine were curled under the bone so the doctor sewed them back together.

So 2 years later not one day goes by that I do not think about Dr Nicolas Vera Zuniga and his kindness nor the wonderful people of Chile. The ankle does not let me forget either. It is fully functional but always gives off the message "Don't mess with me."

I don't have advice for you but wish you the best of luck and hope the people that care for you are as kind as those who cared for me.

Al

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[FJR-RemingtonRider]

Again, much thanks for the advisories...well received.

Al, that was a great little short story.

That kind humanity by the Chiliean's is great, especially the Dr. who stopped.

.

Well, on I-45 in Houston,

While coming to a stop sliding on my back, I raised my head immediately as to make sure

I was not in oncoming traffic's way. Did not know exactly where the slide had ended up.

As I gathered to my feet, I could see the cars immediately behind me, with their signals on

to change lanes and go around me...(The more I think of this the more dissappointed I become)

.

Me thinking more of them, I am walking around retrieving my side bags so they won't cause anyone to wreck.

Still I am picking up the bags and any debris. I realize that the bike is actually on the shoulder

and not in the oncoming traffic lane. 4 Guys from the large truck (that I tried to keep from hitting) stopped

and ran back about 50yards to come to my aid. I didn't think much of it then, until he said,

"man none of those people right behind you even stopped to help, they just moved over and kept going".

.

At first I tried to tell myself that because they saw me gather quickly to my feet, that is probably why

they did not stop, but NO WAY, THEY JUST DID NOT CARE AND DID NOT WANT TO GET INVOLVED.

.

The really scary thought is, what would have happened had I been unconscious, would they have stopped then?

Oh well, The Overseer, sent the fire truck anyways, so can always count on him.

 

[lfmn16]

At first I tried to tell myself that because they saw me gather quickly to my feet, that is probably why

they did not stop, but NO WAY, THEY JUST DID NOT CARE AND DID NOT WANT TO GET INVOLVED.

The age of civility is over and the milk of human kindness is thin, sour and curdled.

The really scary thought is, what would have happened had I been unconscious, would they have stopped then?

Only to see what they could steal before you woke up.