"Jumps" when putting it in 1st gear

[zzzzip]

O K, I guess I gotta say this. Start it in neutral with gear on & clutch squeezed & instantly shift to 1st & ride away. No jerk. That's the only time U shift it to 1st while it's not rolling. Keep RPMs below 3k till 1st temp bar comes on. Any other time be in 1st before it stops rolling & keep clutch in(stop lights etc). No jerk.
Hey, I'm no jerk----Well just maybe I am but my FJR doesn't

Later,,, De

+1 and what chief said.

I start it in neutral, and then shift, after a little blip on the throttle (hold the clutch in for about 15 seconds before shifting from neutral when it is cold). No jumping-- ever. If it is warmed up, start it in any gear-- no matter.

I also use Yamalube, and did so on the '04. I know... my bike will probably self destruct next week after 11,000 miles, but what the hell it has a 4 year YES. :glare:

B)

 

[road runner]

O K, I guess I gotta say this. Start it in neutral with gear on & clutch squeezed & instantly shift to 1st & ride away. No jerk. That's the only time U shift it to 1st while it's not rolling. Keep RPMs below 3k till 1st temp bar comes on. Any other time be in 1st before it stops rolling & keep clutch in(stop lights etc). No jerk.
Hey, I'm no jerk----Well just maybe I am but my FJR doesn't

Later,,, De

+1 and what chief said.

I start it in neutral, and then shift, after a little blip on the throttle (hold the clutch in for about 15 seconds before shifting from neutral when it is cold). No jumping-- ever. If it is warmed up, start it in any gear-- no matter.

I also use Yamalube, and did so on the '04. I know... my bike will probably self destruct next week after 11,000 miles, but what the hell it has a 4 year YES. :glare:

B)

I don't understand if your bikes are still covered under warranty, why not get it fixed ? All the things that some of you have to do just to get it to shift is the same things I had to do before the clutch soak.Had to let it warm up for like 10 miles, Blipp the throttle when down shifting,Pull in clutch blipp throttle then put in 1st,Pull in clutch & wait 3 seconds, Or just jump on shifter & wait for peices to come out. I found all this very agrivating & took way to much effort. I was getting used to it & dealing with it but knew it was'nt right. Now it shifts GREAT, all the time, no exceptions. It's like a new bike compared to before & it was covered under warranty. My cost $ 0.00 & it was'nt the dealer I purchased it from.I do understand not wanting to go to dealer because of cost & down time. This is a covered fix unless you wait to long, then they might try to say it is a wearable part & not covered because of improper operation.At least call Yamaha & take to dealer for documentation.I did both. When I took to dealer I set up an app. I dropped it off the night before so they could see it cold. They checked it out on the scheduled day. I picked up that night so it was down 1 day to get checked. Then they called Yamaha got autho to soak clutch & set up appointment for me to come back. I brought it back & left it for 4 days and now it shifts GREAT. So total down time was 5 days. Yes thst seems like a lot but it's better than leaving it for 2 weeks because they had to order the gasket. They did'nt offer this way but I insisted because the bike was rideable & I did not want to wait for them to get aproval from yamaha & then wait for a gasket. My dealer was very good about all of it & they know about the problem now. They are Herba Motor company in Amsterdam, NY 518-842-8812 ask for John in service. I think they have gaskets in stock now.

I hope this helps some of you & by the way it was worth 5 days. I bet if someone went there now with same problem they could get it done in 3 or 4 days

I foegot to mention some key words when your talking to Yamaha & dealer like " It's becoming a safety concern when you pull in clutch when it's cold & bike keeps going" etc. etc.

Thanks Art

 

[zzzzip]

O K, I guess I gotta say this. Start it in neutral with gear on & clutch squeezed & instantly shift to 1st & ride away. No jerk. That's the only time U shift it to 1st while it's not rolling. Keep RPMs below 3k till 1st temp bar comes on. Any other time be in 1st before it stops rolling & keep clutch in(stop lights etc). No jerk.
Hey, I'm no jerk----Well just maybe I am but my FJR doesn't

Later,,, De

+1 and what chief said.

I start it in neutral, and then shift, after a little blip on the throttle (hold the clutch in for about 15 seconds before shifting from neutral when it is cold). No jumping-- ever. If it is warmed up, start it in any gear-- no matter.

I also use Yamalube, and did so on the '04. I know... my bike will probably self destruct next week after 11,000 miles, but what the hell it has a 4 year YES. :glare:

B)

I don't understand if your bikes are still covered under warranty, why not get it fixed ? All the things that some of you have to do just to get it to shift is the same things I had to do before the clutch soak.Had to let it warm up for like 10 miles, Blipp the throttle when down shifting,Pull in clutch blipp throttle then put in 1st,Pull in clutch & wait 3 seconds, Or just jump on shifter & wait for peices to come out. I found all this very agrivating & took way to much effort. I was getting used to it & dealing with it but knew it was'nt right. Now it shifts GREAT, all the time, no exceptions. It's like a new bike compared to before & it was covered under warranty. My cost $ 0.00 & it was'nt the dealer I purchased it from.I do understand not wanting to go to dealer because of cost & down time. This is a covered fix unless you wait to long, then they might try to say it is a wearable part & not covered because of improper operation.At least call Yamaha & take to dealer for documentation.I did both. When I took to dealer I set up an app. I dropped it off the night before so they could see it cold. They checked it out on the scheduled day. I picked up that night so it was down 1 day to get checked. Then they called Yamaha got autho to soak clutch & set up appointment for me to come back. I brought it back & left it for 4 days and now it shifts GREAT. So total down time was 5 days. Yes thst seems like a lot but it's better than leaving it for 2 weeks because they had to order the gasket. They did'nt offer this way but I insisted because the bike was rideable & I did not want to wait for them to get aproval from yamaha & then wait for a gasket. My dealer was very good about all of it & they know about the problem now. They are Herba Motor company in Amsterdam, NY 518-842-8812 ask for John in service. I think they have gaskets in stock now.

I hope this helps some of you & by the way it was worth 5 days. I bet if someone went there now with same problem they could get it done in 3 or 4 days

Thanks Art

I don't have a problem with my bike... I was trying to be a smart ***.

B)

 

[road runner]

zzzzip I understand. And it's great that there's no problem with your bike. I'm not refering to any one person , just sharing my experience & hopefully helping some of us with same problem.

Thanks Art

 

[SECA_to_FJR]

Thanks again for the additional info and threads to look at. I guess soaking the clutch plates will be on my short list if things get worse. My "jumping" and "still pulling while clutch is in" problem may not be as servere as what some of you have experienced. It's definitely not a figment of my imagination though nor is the hard down shifting. Again when fully warm its much better if not completely unnoticable.

I've got about a 1000mile trip coming up soon and will see how it goes. I might take someone's suggestion to atleast get it documented with a dealer either way. It's an '06 that I bought this year so i believe the warratee still holds. I didn't buy it local so hopefully the "local" dealer around hear will be willing to listen to my concerns.

Aside from this (and a little bit of the throttle jerkiness(the G2 helped a little)) I truely love this bike! Just a little disappointing that there's some of these issues with a brand new pricey bike. I figured my first 10 or 20 years with it would by trouble free! After 26 years my '81 Seca has yet to give me a problem and my son now rides it. I know its apples and oranges between the bikes but thats what I guess I was expecting. Thanks again...

 

[joeR6]

I HAVE GOOD NEWS.The clutch works GREAT NOW.Bottom line is the clutch plates needed to be soaked.

Forgive my mechanical retartedness, but what do they "soak" the clutch plates in? FJR has a wet-clutch?- clutch plates don't get lubricated by this? :blink:

My 06 has the clunknjump and just ran out of warranty - very mild when cold, slight slight tad jump even when warm. Will my trany wear out faster (if so how much?)

I doubt its something I could fix on my own. No way in hell am I going back to the stealership unless I absolutly have to- These days it seems that you get charged just to bring the bike through the door.

 

[HaulinAshe]

It doesn't make much sense, but there really is something to soaking clutch plates (fiber plates) in oil before assembly. Having the clutch sit assembled in oil just doesn't produce the same result. The surfaces that contact the metal plates cannot absorb oil and become properly "wet" with the clutch assembled dry.

The fiber plates need to be saturated in oil before assembly. After that, they will maintain a balance of "wetness" via normal operations. I soak race clutches for 24 hours before using them. My spare clutches are normally stored in tupperware containers filled with oil for their entire shelf life, sometimes months.

 

[road runner]

Yes what Jeffashe said is a good discription. I was also told that the clutch is only splashed w/oil when running. Even when running oil can't get between the plates very good until the clutch is activated.When activated the plates separate. It does get in there but not very much.

If you want you can try a thiner oil. When I tried 10-30 it did get a little better. I was going to try 0-40 Amsoil syn. but took to dealer & they did soak. I don't want this to be an oil thread but thiner oil will get in there better. Just make sure it's motorcycle oil. Amsoil makes a lot of different weight oils for bikes.

Also with thiner oil in it use the clutch a lot. Or even let it warm up & zip tie the clutch lever to the grip, this might help get oil in clutch pack. Just watch temp.

I don't no if these will work but if you don't want to go to dealer it might be worth a try.

Art

 

[mike25]

The transmission on the FJR is stacked, the input shaft is above the output shaft.

The clutch is, of course mounted to the input shaft, which is not bathed in oil.

Some oil may get to the clutch from 'flinging', and possibly from the oil passage

in the input shaft.

It's a simple job to remove the plates for soaking, just buy a gasket.

 

[jeremybhm]

I mentioned soaking the clutch plates to the service guys at Big #1 in Birmingham, and they looked at me like I was ********. They said, "It's a wet clutch, it sits in oil". I replied with something about knowing that but it was suggested that another dealer had performed this procedure to smooth out the shifting. They said, "that's just how the FJR transmission shifts".

I'm over that now, but I did have one other weird related occurence the other day. I was sitting on the bike after moving it with it running in 1st and shifted it into neutral, the green light lit up and the LCD said N. When I let out the clutch, it lurched forward and killed the engine. I had to shift into neutral again. Only thing that I can come up with is that maybe the display got updated but for some reason the trans didn't shift... Freaked me out.

 

[road runner]

Don't walk but run from that dealer. Mine shifts GREAT NOW. I've heard guys say this bike shifts hard or clunckey or something like that & mine did until I had the clutch soaked. I cant say enough about how good it is now, it's like a new bike.

 

[ELP_JC]

Just want to make a point, so not everybody who hears a clunk thinks there's something wrong.

ALL wet-clutch bikes clunk when first is engaged. Reason for the clunk is clutch plates disengage by 1mm or so, and the oil in the plates cause enough drag that the tranny keeps moving in N, and when engaging a gear, it suddenly comes to an abrupt stop. That's the 'clunk' you hear.

To make matters worse on the FJR, is Yamaha designed the slave cylinder rod too short on GenII bikes, and as a result the clutch disengages less than normal before the lever touches the grip. I'd much have preferred the clutch engaging towards the end of the lever travel on a wet clutch. This even smaller disengagement distance can exacerbate any issues typical of wet clutches, like bike lurching a bit when cold when using too thick of an oil.

Finally, soaking plates should NEVER be an issue on a 'normal' wet clutch bike, as oil is used to COOL the clutch, not a necessary item for operation, plus if bike is not used for weeks would put the plates back to square 1, but again, that's what happens when you don't have enough distance between the plates to begin with.

Having said that, a proper synthetic oil should eliminate that. And if I ever get that issue, rather than letting dealer take my bike apart for that 'service', I'd first just add a shim to the slave rod to allow the slave to disengage the clutch a bit more, like all other hydraulic-clutched bikes I've ever had, and that should cure the problem as well. I'd put the shim INSIDE the slave, then insert the rod like normal. You'd have to play with the shim (a thin washer should work), but the good news is the slave removed with just 3 bolts, rather than the more elaborate job of messing with the plates, which would have to be a recurring job if the bike is not used for a while. Just wanted to throw one more point of view. Take care gang.

JC

 

[FJRocketMan]

ELP_JC -

I happen to be experiencing this issue on my '07 and have found ways around it like getting the RPM's up before down shifting or putting into first allowing the plates to seperate. This works but I like your idea of putting in a shim instead of taking in for a dealer to screw around with "soaking the clutch plates". What you are saying makes sense ("I'd first just add a shim to the slave rod to allow the slave to disengage the clutch a bit more") and if it's as easy as you say I would like to try it. Can you help with some specific directions for adding a shim?

By the way, I have tried changing oils which made no difference (Mobil-1 Racing 4T)

 

[mike25]

ELP_JC -
I happen to be experiencing this issue on my '07 and have found ways around it like getting the RPM's up before down shifting or putting into first allowing the plates to seperate. This works but I like your idea of putting in a shim instead of taking in for a dealer to screw around with "soaking the clutch plates". What you are saying makes sense ("I'd first just add a shim to the slave rod to allow the slave to disengage the clutch a bit more") and if it's as easy as you say I would like to try it. Can you help with some specific directions for adding a shim?

By the way, I have tried changing oils which made no difference (Mobil-1 Racing 4T)

A shim won't work. Its a hydraulic clutch (self adjusting). If the shim were to

thick it would apply constant pressure on the pressure plate, and could cause

slipping.

 

[ELP_JC]

A shim won't work. Its a hydraulic clutch (self adjusting).

WRONG. Of course it'd work. On the other hand, you're correct by saying if the shim is too big it'd keep the clutch engaged all the time.

Remember the 'self adjusting' feature refers to the clutch ALWAYS engaging at the same point. What we want to do is CHANGE that point. When the clutch plates wear, the rod is pushed further into the engine, and hydraulic fluid from the reservoir fills the extra volume at the slave cylinder, always keeping the same engaging point. Hope this makes sense.

Rocketman, it should be a real easy affair buddy. There are only 3 bolts to remove your slave, and the good news is that shoudn't require removal of the left panel. Only one way to find out.

When you remove the slave, be careful to insert your fingers into the gap as soon as you can slip them to hold the piston from coming off the slave (you DON'T want that). Remove the slave. Use zip ties to keep the piston fully depressed into the slave, and put the slave on top of a towel bunched between engine and fairing, so it doesn't scratch your fairing. The shim needs to go inside the cavity in the piston where the rod is inserted; that way it's 100% secure.

Remember we want the clutch engagement point around the middle. If we count as 0% all the way out, and 100% touching the grips, I'd like it to engage between 40 and 50%, if that makes sense. Start with a very thin washer; that should do it. We're talking about 1mm here.

Button it up, drop bike from centerstand, start it, engage 1st, and release clutch with the front brake applied to see where it grabs, and then turn off, so motor doesn't get hot. If you want it further out, get a slightly thicker washer. If you went too far, get a smaller one. After you feel you're done, then go for a short ride to fully evaluate it.

Oh, and please measure the washer before inserting it so when you have the clutch perfectly dialed in, you can tell us the size and what you used, and become immortal here by naming the mod the 'rocketman mod'. Ha ha. Please let me know if you have any more questions. You can PM me if you want. Later.

JC

 

[FJRay]

It would seem that adding a shim of some kind will only change the position of the piston in the bore and will not change the how the clutch works unless as mentioned the shim is to thick in which case it would prevent the plates from fully engaging causing it to slip. To make it easier to shift into gear one would need to be able to change the stroke of the slave cylinder to push farther and allow the plates to free up more. That isn't going to happen unless you can increase the volume of fluid displaced by the clutch master and that would take reenginering the whole system.

 

[ELP_JC]

It would seem that adding a shim of some kind will only change the position of the piston in the bore

Nope. The piston is pushed ALL THE WAY INTO THE BORE by the rod. What would change position is the ROD within the clutch. Think about it. In order for you to be correct, we'd have to disassemble the piston, and put a shim INSIDE the bore, then put the piston back. THEN you'd be correct.

Your point of needing to increase the stroke is a very valid one, but I don't think we need that. And remember if you increase stroke, you also increase lever effort (due to limitations of master cylinder size, fluid volume, etc).

In my experience, when a clutch engages close to the grip WITHOUT having air in the lines, is because the rod is too small, and it pushes the spring at the end of the clutch for the first third of travel or so. I bet Yamaha redesigned the slave, but didn't bother to change the rod; that's my guess. It just doesn't make any sense that you're actually pushing on the pressure plate for 3/4 of lever travel before it disengages.

But keep the comments coming, as I could be wrong. I haven't taken this clutch apart, so am talking based on previous experience. Somebody who has removed the clutch might be able to give us some insight. The best way to prove it would be to remove the spring that keeps the lever pressurized, put the clutch back, and see where the lever gets resistance; at THAT point is when it'd start exerting force on the pressure plate. My guess is it'd be about 1/2 the lever travel now.

And after riding 4 FJRs, and all behaving like mine, I doubt ALL FJRs have air in the lines, so it has to be the rod is too short. And again, by too short I'm talking about 1mm or so. Interesting discussion. Later gang.

JC

 

[mike25]

Nope. The piston is pushed ALL THE WAY INTO THE BORE by the rod.

If the piston were pushed into the bore all the way. what would happen

as the clutch wares?

 

[ELP_JC]

If the piston were pushed into the bore all the way. what would happen as the clutch wares?

The lever would get even closer to the grip with miles. I don't think the clutch on the FJR is self adjusting due to the fact it engages so close to the throttle. But again, I could be wrong.

The bottom line is with the clutch engaging so close to the grip, you can safely add a thin shim to the rod to push the engagement towards the middle, regardless if self adjusting or not.

The only way you could screw your clutch is if you're pushing on the pressure plate with the lever out, and you would IMMEDIATELY know that because clutch would disengage by barely pressing the clutch lever.

On a self-adjusting clutch like my BMW, if you were to shim the rod, it'd push the slave cylinder further in indeed, but as long as it didn't reach the bottom, you'd be perfectly fine.

As a matter of fact, my BMW had a master cylinder piston adjustment, and I adjusted my clutch outward because it was similar to the FJR, and I like to only use 2 fingers to operate the clutch, which means I can't use all the travel or I hit my fingers without disengaging the clutch. Using that screw that changes when you start pushing the master cylinder piston is the exact equivalent of shortening or lenghtening the slave cylinder rod (by their proportional distance, that is). I could start pushing the slave cylinder with that screw if I wanted; that's why you have to know what you're doing, and why the screw is loctited (and red) from the factory.

I don't understand what's the big deal here. We're dealing with mechanical stuff. If you push the rod too far, you'd know it immediately. If clutch engages in the middle, it's the ideal position. If it's designed as self adjusting, it'd always stay there. If not, you have more lever room as clutch wears. A non-self adjusting hydraulic clutch would cause the lever to move very little towards the grip throughout the useful life of the clutch. But that's not the case with a manual clutch, since without hydraulics, the mechanical advantage has to be much greater to have an acceptable lever pull, and has to be adjusted more often.

If somebody wants to do it, go ahead. As I said, I don't know this clutch so can't answer specific questions. All I can say is ALL hydraulic clutches operate under the same mechanical principle, and without a master cylinder adjustment (we don't have any), the only freaking way to adjust engagement point is by changing the rod. Just do it that it engages in the middle, to play it safe.

If even a small shim pushes the engagement far out, then it means it's a self-adjusting clutch with a badly designed ratio. The only fix in this case would be a different slave (smaller bore) like somebody already mentioned, or most likely, a master/slave cylinder combo, which I wouldn't even mess with. Only one easy way to find out. Later gang.

JC

 

[mike25]

it's a self-adjusting clutch with a badly designed ratio.

BINGO!!!!!!