KN-148 vs KN-204 Oil filters

[Medpilot]

Both filters come up in a search, but no one has compared the two on this forum.

K&N's website says to use KN-148 for Gen 1 and II and KN-204 for Gen III

As I understand it, nothing was changed between the generations what would require using a different filter.

I just installed the KN-148 on my Gen III yesterday and all seems to be fine. I like the idea of having a bigger filter, thinking that it's going to have more filtering media inside.

Anyone care to chime in as to why K&N recommends two different filters for our bikes?

Some some comparison pictures.

KN-148 installed

 

[roger dodger]

IIRC they are the same filter used on the S10 (smaller space required shorter filter) so they eliminated the unique part # in favor of the dual part #.

We can use either part#, but the S10 must use the shorter filter.

 

[Medpilot]

I was curious as to why K&N recommends the bigger filter for the earlier years for the FJR? It's not like there's a size restriction for our bikes between the different years. Strange.

 

[Intech]

Once the larger Yamaha filters are out of stock, the new smaller ones will be the only available. If you want a larger one you will have to buy something like the K&N-148. Just make sure it isn't a K&N-198. They don't work on the FJR, unless you want it to look like a Harley! DAMHIK!

 

[radiummadman]

screw a bunch of K&N crap, paying for the name is all

 

[G Squared]

The K&N's are mirroring what Yamaha has done to their own filters. And yes, the larger filter will last longer but as long as you keep a good replacement schedule,, they should be no different in their performance.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

The shorter filter is an economic win/win/win/.

You save a HUGE amount of money because the oil capacity is tremendously smaller.

You have enormous performance gains because the oil pump has less filter to pump oil through. Less horsepower is lost here.

You improve your aerodynamics because the smaller filter does not stick out as far.

You improve your safety because the filter is less likely to get damaged by flying debris.

I only wish I had gone to the short filter sooner.

 

[mcatrophy]

Since we're already well into NEPRT territory ...

...
You have enormous performance gains because the oil pump has less filter to pump oil through. Less horsepower is lost here.
...

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The shorter filter means it's more difficult for the oil pump to pump oil through, so there's less oil getting into the bearings, so engine drag is more, so you use more fuel.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Since we're already well into NEPRT territory ...

...

You have enormous performance gains because the oil pump has less filter to pump oil through. Less horsepower is lost here.

...

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The shorter filter means it's more difficult for the oil pump to pump oil through, so there's less oil getting into the bearings, so engine drag is more, so you use more fuel.

Ah, another part of this most important topic to debate! The joys of a NEPRT thread are simply endless.

I respectfully disagree, Sir.

I say that the shorter filter must have less media and therefore it is easier to pump the oil through it. Since the diameter of the filter remains the same and the end contour remains the same there should be no difference in the energy required to reverse the outward flow to the filter back into the engine.

What we really need is some information on the oil pump itself. A power curve/horsepower usage chart would be invaluable for an important discussion like this.

We need some resolution on this issue NOW. I am going to change my oil this morning and I need to know. What if I make the wrong decision? What if I place undue strain on my engine and my oil pump? What if I starve some components for oil by using the shorter filter? Has Yamaha actually tested this shorter filter? My anxiety level is climbing, I just don't know what to do now...

 

[HotRodZilla]

Since we're already well into NEPRT territory ...

...

You have enormous performance gains because the oil pump has less filter to pump oil through. Less horsepower is lost here.

...

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The shorter filter means it's more difficult for the oil pump to pump oil through, so there's less oil getting into the bearings, so engine drag is more, so you use more fuel.

Ah, another part of this most important topic to debate! The joys of a NEPRT thread are simply endless.
I respectfully disagree, Sir.

I say that the shorter filter must have less media and therefore it is easier to pump the oil through it. Since the diameter of the filter remains the same and the end contour remains the same there should be no difference in the energy required to reverse the outward flow to the filter back into the engine.

What we really need is some information on the oil pump itself. A power curve/horsepower usage chart would be invaluable for an important discussion like this.

We need some resolution on this issue NOW. I am going to change my oil this morning and I need to know. What if I make the wrong decision? What if I place undue strain on my engine and my oil pump? What if I starve some components for oil by using the shorter filter? Has Yamaha actually tested this shorter filter? My anxiety level is climbing, I just don't know what to do now... :weirdsmiley:

I know what you should do now. It involves a hammer and your noggin.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

'Zilla said:

"I know what you should do now. It involves a hammer and your noggin."

I respectfully submit to the nice officer that I am already using the "Hammer to the head" system of punishment. It is called "Marriage" and mine is more difficult than most due to the size, meanness and ugliness of the wife I to which I am legally bound.

Back on topic:

In the immortal words of Admiral Farragut, "Damn the torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead!" I am just going to change the oil and worry about the dire consequences later.

I will say that when I changed the oil in Dad's '07 a few days ago he had already noticed the New Improved Shorter Filter as soon as they placed it on the counter. He asked me if it was the right filter. I did not want to burden him with all of the forum debate so I just told him, "Yes, sir it is going to work just fine." And it will.

 

[Medpilot]

Oh lord, what have I started.

I suppose it's less expensive for K&N (Champion Labs) to produce the smaller filter; then in turn selling it at the same price as the larger filter making a slight financial gain.

Maybe that's the whole reason for the smaller filter.

Or I like the better aerodynamics theory too.

 

[mcatrophy]

Since we're already well into NEPRT territory ...

...

You have enormous performance gains because the oil pump has less filter to pump oil through. Less horsepower is lost here.

...

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The shorter filter means it's more difficult for the oil pump to pump oil through, so there's less oil getting into the bearings, so engine drag is more, so you use more fuel.

Ah, another part of this most important topic to debate! The joys of a NEPRT thread are simply endless.
I respectfully disagree, Sir.

I say that the shorter filter must have less media and therefore it is easier to pump the oil through it. Since the diameter of the filter remains the same and the end contour remains the same there should be no difference in the energy required to reverse the outward flow to the filter back into the engine.

What we really need is some information on the oil pump itself. A power curve/horsepower usage chart would be invaluable for an important discussion like this.

We need some resolution on this issue NOW. I am going to change my oil this morning and I need to know. What if I make the wrong decision? What if I place undue strain on my engine and my oil pump? What if I starve some components for oil by using the shorter filter? Has Yamaha actually tested this shorter filter? My anxiety level is climbing, I just don't know what to do now... :weirdsmiley:

The shorter filter does have less material, therefore less surface area, so a greater pressure drop across the material for a given flow (or less flow for a given pressure drop).
That assumes material of the same thickness and hole size and coil spacing. Which I don't know.

(It's raining here and I'm bored, so nothing like a good argument discussion to keep me sane awake.)

 

[jayke]

Read somewhere, that the super tenere needs a shorter filter and Yamaha went to a shorter filter on the Gen III FJR so they only have to stock one filter instead of two.

 

[rbentnail]

The shorter filter does have less material, therefore less surface area, so a greater pressure drop across the material for a given flow (or less flow for a given pressure drop).That assumes material of the same thickness and hole size and coil spacing. Which I don't know.
(It's raining here and I'm bored, so nothing like a good argument discussion to keep me sane awake.)

Using lighter weight oil when using a shorter filter negates this "problem", yes?

 

[mcatrophy]

The shorter filter does have less material, therefore less surface area, so a greater pressure drop across the material for a given flow (or less flow for a given pressure drop).That assumes material of the same thickness and hole size and coil spacing. Which I don't know.(It's raining here and I'm bored, so nothing like a good argument discussion to keep me sane awake.)

Using lighter weight oil when using a shorter filter negates this "problem", yes?

It reduces the pressure drop on the filter, but it also reduces the pressure in the engine bearings and the oil shear strength within gear teeth.
So the bike is going to blow up in an inferno.

(Where the h*ll is the "tongue in cheek" smiley?)

 

[AHAMAY]

I have no choice but to use the KN-204 as I have Canyon Cages...

 

[Valhalla556]

Ah, another part of this most important topic to debate! The joys of a NEPRT thread are simply endless.

I respectfully disagree, Sir.

I say that the shorter filter must have less media and therefore it is easier to pump the oil through it. Since the diameter of the filter remains the same and the end contour remains the same there should be no difference in the energy required to reverse the outward flow to the filter back into the engine.

What we really need is some information on the oil pump itself. A power curve/horsepower usage chart would be invaluable for an important discussion like this.

We need some resolution on this issue NOW. I am going to change my oil this morning and I need to know. What if I make the wrong decision? What if I place undue strain on my engine and my oil pump? What if I starve some components for oil by using the shorter filter? Has Yamaha actually tested this shorter filter? My anxiety level is climbing, I just don't know what to do now...

That isn't how filters work... the larger square inch surface for the filter media, the higher the flow capacity a filter has. A smaller filter will also become saturated with particulates faster, restricting flow quicker as well. The benefits of a larger filter are many. Higher flow, larger oil capacity, longer required interval between filter changes, better oil cooling due to higher capacity and more surface area of the filter housing. When able, it is always better to run a larger filter.

 

[RossKean]

That isn't how filters work... the larger square inch surface for the filter media, the higher the flow capacity a filter has. A smaller filter will also become saturated with particulates faster, restricting flow quicker as well. The benefits of a larger filter are many. Higher flow, larger oil capacity, longer required interval between filter changes, better oil cooling due to higher capacity and more surface area of the filter housing. When able, it is always better to run a larger filter.

You are responding to a 9+ year old thread and to a tongue-in-cheek comment made by Redfish...

 

[Whooshka]

Reading this thread made me laugh. Amazing how silly over analysis sounds. But I'm convinced now that running a smaller oil filter will increase performance by .000000079%. I'm all in!