Northwoods Snowman
Well-known member
What dash cam setup are you using?
Lane Splitting--L.A. Style
- Thread starter James Burleigh
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gotfz1
Active member
They designate traffic islands (whether there's an actual island or not). The local boards are full of riders that insist on using them then complain when they get cited. I avoid them.A pair of double-yellow lines next to each other ("double double-yellow") separating an HOV lane.Just out of curiosity, what is this DY DY thing of which you guys speak?
James Burleigh
Well-known member
Yeah, out in the regular world of driving, a double DY is meant to simulate an island--namely, do not turn across here. Nevertheless, there are plenty of knuckleheads turning across them to enter shopping center driveways mid-block.They designate traffic islands (whether there's an actual island or not). The local boards are full of riders that insist on using them then complain when they get cited. I avoid them.A pair of double-yellow lines next to each other ("double double-yellow") separating an HOV lane.Just out of curiosity, what is this DY DY thing of which you guys speak?
And speaking of which (knuckleheads?
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What is this Hans' Principle you speak of? Google had nothingAnd speaking of which (knuckleheads?), as I was monkeying with them on the L.A. freeway, I felt like I was breaking more laws than I was comfortable doing. I really (no, really) don't believe the rules don't apply to motorcycles, as I've tried to capture in my "Hans' Principle of Motorcycle Advantage," promulgated years ago when I started commuting to help me define the limits of what I was willing and not willing to do to get ahead of traffic. Glad to be back in my own 'hood.
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
It's so secret even Google doesn't know about it.
Right, Hans?
Right, Hans?
James Burleigh
Well-known member
It's just something I came up with some years ago when I started commuting full time by motorcycle. I could always get ahead of or around stopped or slow-moving traffic because of my size, but sometimes doing so involved illegal or obnoxious behavior. So I had to figure out what my own limits were in terms of what I was willing, and not willing, to do to get ahead of traffic. And I developed what I called "Hans's Principle of Motorcycle Advantage," which quite simply goes like this:What is this Hans' Principle you speak of? Google had nothing
If a car can do it, then it's not a motorcycle advantage. Rather, it's just illegal or obnoxious. So don’t do it.
I would (usually) not do any maneuver that violated that principle. An easy example is riding up the right shoulder over the white fog line in cases where the lane is wide enough for a car: "If a car can do it, then why should I be allowed to just because I'm on a motorcycle?"
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Brodie
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Interesting side topic on the double double yellow HOV lane marking, it seems to be a SoCal thing. I spend most of my riding here in the San Jose Bay Area, and we are blessed with just a single pair of white lines separating the HOV lane from the regular flow of traffic. When I see the DY DY markings down south, in my mind's eye I make it a point to not venture in that zone at all. However, it does give us a bit more room between the lanes. It also has a bit more crap on the ground just waiting for your tires to pick up.
The problem I have with these HOV lanes is they sometimes veer off from the rest of traffic into special ramps that accumulate other merging HOV traffic before rejoining the normal lanes. Many times traffic slows to a crawl on these ramps as it merges back into one lane. That's where I'm trapped. I tend not to want to laneshare a single lane - on either side. I'd rather take my chances between the cars in regular traffic then get stuck in that situation.
I guess I have my own developed version of the "Principle of Motorcycle Advantage". It all boils down to riding within your comfort zone.
Brodie
The problem I have with these HOV lanes is they sometimes veer off from the rest of traffic into special ramps that accumulate other merging HOV traffic before rejoining the normal lanes. Many times traffic slows to a crawl on these ramps as it merges back into one lane. That's where I'm trapped. I tend not to want to laneshare a single lane - on either side. I'd rather take my chances between the cars in regular traffic then get stuck in that situation.
I guess I have my own developed version of the "Principle of Motorcycle Advantage". It all boils down to riding within your comfort zone.
Brodie
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Hans - How many clutches to the mile do you get?
James Burleigh
Well-known member
In TX it's in the statutes as the "improved shoulder rule".
https://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.541.htm
Sec. 541.302. TRAFFIC AREAS. In this subtitle:
Code:
(6) "Improved shoulder" means a paved shoulder.(A) adjacent to the roadway;
(
© distinguished from the roadway by different design, construction, or marking; and
(D) not intended for normal vehicular travel.
https://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.545.htm
Sec. 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER.
(a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled lane of traffic;
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing to make a left turn;
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;
(6) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(7) to avoid a collision.
Taken at its face value, bikes and cars can go around slowing or stopped traffic on a developed shoulder. In practice "leap frogging" a traffic jam in a car will often get LEO attention. If doing it on a bike and you notice a patrol vehicle, simply take the next exit and, if asked, explain your concern about idling for an extended time in the stalled traffic.
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James Burleigh
Well-known member
This is brilliant! Of course! In fact, I did it on my ride home just tonight from the train station: On the single-lane road with a white fog line and paved shoulder, when the car in front of me stopped to turn left, I entered the shoulder across the line to pass it. Why wouldn't that be the same situation when all the cars ahead of me are backed up?
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TomInPA
Well-known member
PA lacks left turn lanes and I will frequently use an improved shoulder to pass a line of cars backed up behind a person making a left turn. The language of the law is confusing, but it seems to allow the pass as long as you stay on the berm or shoulder. Few shoulders are wide enough for a car to pass, but with a bike, no problemo.
My California experience makes me more inclined to pass traffic where allowed, and to position my self between lanes of traffic in situations where lane splitting would be possible. It's an escape route, whether you use it or not. This might not get me a pass to use the shoulder on a divided highway. Is the shoulder "off the roadway"?
My California experience makes me more inclined to pass traffic where allowed, and to position my self between lanes of traffic in situations where lane splitting would be possible. It's an escape route, whether you use it or not. This might not get me a pass to use the shoulder on a divided highway. Is the shoulder "off the roadway"?
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wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
I always loved it when driving through Texas on the back roads. EVERYONE moves over into that shoulder lane to let you by as you come up, even if there was plenty of room for a normal opposite-lane pass. It's like smarter people use the back roads!!!!
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I attribute it to the sheeple mindset of large metroplexes. They clump together, tailgating even when out of town on the open road. They don't give enough space between vehicles as a defense mechanism from other city drivers who would dive into the open spot without blinking.
My daughter used to tailgate even when we were the only 2 vehicles within the horizon until I harped enough about how she could still see me even if I was a mile away. She learned to drive in a metroplex.
They get out, away from the high density areas, and can't let go of their aggressive/commuter mind set.
My daughter used to tailgate even when we were the only 2 vehicles within the horizon until I harped enough about how she could still see me even if I was a mile away. She learned to drive in a metroplex.
They get out, away from the high density areas, and can't let go of their aggressive/commuter mind set.
Great video Hans. We need more lane sharing vids posted. But not so much like this soft core variety.
I want some really hard core lane sharing. For instance take a video at around 4 pm on any major artery around LA the Weds before Thanksgiving. THAT would be some good stuff right there.
Slice 'n dice baby!
I want some really hard core lane sharing. For instance take a video at around 4 pm on any major artery around LA the Weds before Thanksgiving. THAT would be some good stuff right there.
redneckj
Well-known member
wfooshee
O, Woe is me!!
Problem is, that's what the unwashed masses think of when we say that lane sharing or filtering would work for everyone, by making bikes safer and reducing congestion. They don't think of the bike moving slowly through clogged traffic, they think of hooligans shooting through traffic at 80 miles an hour.
What that video shows is NOT what we want to be able to do, and it's NOT what anyone reasonable is talking about when they discuss lane sharing.
What that video shows is NOT what we want to be able to do, and it's NOT what anyone reasonable is talking about when they discuss lane sharing.
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James Burleigh
Well-known member
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