Legal Advice

[Fly4hire]

Any lawyers out there? Turns out the bike I was sold new ("new" on all dealer PW, and built up out of the crate while I was there, 0 miles, told 1 yr warranty) was in fact a Yamaha Reps demo allocation bike that while never built or ridden, had been previously registered and has only 3 months of factory warranty remaining. :angry2: Only found out about warranty when I contacted D&H to buy YES and they ran the VIN.

Dealer claims they didn't know (is this really possible?), and waiting to see if corporate will reset warranty to my date of purchase, but if not this reeks of consumer fraud and I intend to pursue. Any advice appreciated. PM me if more appropriate.

 

[bramfrank]

Dealer may have known, but didn't realise the implications. It doesn't matter. You have a bill of sale that says 'new'. It was issued by the bona fide representative (dealer) of Yamaha and the DMV says it was new. Doesn't hurt your case that you saw it being assembled out of the crate and that the dealer backs you up.

Contact Yamaha and tell 'em you bought what the dealer thought was a new bike and that you saw it being assembled and that it is obvious that their paperwork is wrong, because the 'in service date' could not possibly have been while the machine was still in the crate.

I'm certain they'll adjust the warranties - heck, they might even cover the cost of the YES as a goodwill gesture for having put you through the anguish (possible, though unlikely). Ask them for it - all they can do is say 'no', where if you don't ask, they won't know to make the offer.

You can always sue everyone for misrepresentation if you can't get what you need by being 'Mr. Nice'.

The only unfortunate issue is that you'll have to sue the dealer AND Yamaha jointly and severally if it comes down to it, because there's no direct relationship between Yamaha and you and it was the dealer who represented the vehicle as new. He'll have to claim from Yamaha if/when he loses.

However - you can't put a monetary value on the 'error' - and small claims can't force Yamaha to give you a warranty, so if you do pursue, it will be in a real court.

 

[rockmurf]

If you have documentation of what you stated ( I am not an attorney) then you should have a clear shot to have the warranty set back and I would be really surprised if Yamaha did not do that for you. If they don't you can go to small claims court and file your case. Prior to that you should make a reasonable amount of documented attempts to solve the problem with the dealer, regional rep, and then national rep. Key words here are documented as in registered mail with copies of any and all receipts. I don't this is a big deal. If the dealer did not have any intent to do this and this was just a mistake you really don't have damages to sue for or a criminal case (as long as they extend your warranty). Good luck. ps This isnot worth hiring an atty for.

 

[Fly4hire]

If you have documentation of what you stated ( I am not an attorney) then you should have a clear shot to have the warranty set back and I would be really surprised if Yamaha did not do that for you. If they don't you can go to small claims court and file your case. Prior to that you should make a reasonable amount of documented attempts to solve the problem with the dealer, regional rep, and then national rep. Key words here are documented as in registered mail with copies of any and all receipts. I don't this is a big deal. If the dealer did not have any intent to do this and this was just a mistake you really don't have damages to sue for or a criminal case (as long as they extend your warranty). Good luck. ps This isnot worth hiring an atty for.

Agreed - am working with the dealer for now, and not looking for anything other than having a full year of warranty.

Of note was when this was brought up to the dealer they initially took the tact of "well - did you get a good deal on the bike?" and "we'll match D&H's price on the YES" as if somehow justifies a new(?) bike with less than a year warranty.

They appear to be working good faith to rectify, they also said it's out of their hands and up to Yamaha Inc to reset, so any further action may have to be with Yamaha Inc. A lingering question in my mind is how any other dealer could instantly determine the bike had been previously registered by researching the VIN, but they "didn't know" themselves when doing the sales paperwork?

I would much prefer to get this resolved on the lowest level possible - just getting my ducks in a row if it does not work out that way.

 

[Fly4hire]

deleted

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Sure sounds sleazy -- both dealer and Cypress. Will be interesting to see how this developes....

I was once involved with a dealer, years ago, who sold a 'demo' as new. The buyer, after taking the bike home and looking-over the bike, determined that the tires just had wear on them not consistant with a brand-new m/c. He returned to the dealer and discussed the issue (I wasn't privy to that....) -- but, the dealer made everything good to the customer's satisfaction.

Once caught-in-the-act (In Flagrante Delecto), the dealer's got nowhere to hide.... :blink: :angry:

 

[Ari Rankum]

Sure sounds sleazy -- both dealer and Cypress. Will be interesting to see how this developes....

+1 on that.

I'd find it really, really hard to believe the dealership didn't know of the bike's status when completing the sale.

Someone who has worked in Yamaha M/C sales coming along to correct me in 3....2....

 

[FJR1300Mark]

I had this issue come up on an 05. To get the 05 the dealer had to have a purchaser. In this case they had their service manager put his name on the deposit. The bike was new as in it had never been riden, but when they sold the bike to a real person they found out the warrantee had been running and they only had 9 months on the original year.

The dealer was not trying to cheat anyone. The resolve on this was for the dealer to deliver the extended yes warrantee for a lesser cost.

Everyone was ok with the result.

Work intelligently with your dealer to see what they can do either with Yamaha or on the extended warrantee.

Don't let it impact the quality of your ride.

 

[Bounce]

the only way that a YES as a solution would work for me was if it was 48 months, unlimited miles and FREE. after all, i'd have bought a 48/Yes for my new bike (for 60 months) and now i'm looking at losing 9 months of coverage. that 9 months seems to equal about $350 to me.

 

[BobbyBlue]

Take er easy lad ! MamaYama is still repairing tickers 4 years OUT of warranty no charge and I'm sure they will make good on this...I'd stay positive and look for the opportunities in this....you'll come out ahead...probably do better than I(we) did on our 400 y.e.s.purchases......but I am a sappy phuk that way...you're still riding the best sport-tourer in the universe....at least our quadrant anyway ! Keep us posted and best wishes !

Bobby

 

[Cal24Master]

Something sounds really fishy here, but it will be real easy to get to the bottom of. On a new bike that has not been registered the dealer is given the Manufacturers Statement of Origin. That is what the DMV uses to register it for the first time. If the dealer got the bike, in the crate or not, and did NOT get the MSO with it, then they knew it had been registered. But, I don't know why they would register a bike that was a Demo. Demo bikes are usually not registered and used with a manufacturer plate that can be put on any vehicle until it is sold to the customer.

All you have to do is ask the dealer to see their paperwork from when they registered it for you. If it was not done with a MSO, then you know the dealer was BSing you. It it was done with a MSO, then the dealer probably didn't know about it.

 

[Fly4hire]

Something sounds really fishy here, but it will be real easy to get to the bottom of. On a new bike that has not been registered the dealer is given the Manufacturers Statement of Origin. That is what the DMV uses to register it for the first time. If the dealer got the bike, in the crate or not, and did NOT get the MSO with it, then they knew it had been registered. But, I don't know why they would register a bike that was a Demo. Demo bikes are usually not registered and used with a manufacturer plate that can be put on any vehicle until it is sold to the customer.
All you have to do is ask the dealer to see their paperwork from when they registered it for you. If it was not done with a MSO, then you know the dealer was BSing you. It it was done with a MSO, then the dealer probably didn't know about it.

Thanks for the advice. More ammo in my back pocket if needed. My registration came back and said "original" if that means anything. I do not think there is any dealer malfeasance at this point, and I don't really care as long as they make the warranty right or otherwise compensate me for the loss of 9 months warranty - I bought the bike there because the price was right and they had one. I doubt I will be using them for anything else ever again.

 

[El Toro]

I don't think you've got any cause to be p'o'ed at the dealer yet.

Wait until you see if they can get the warranty issue straightened out.

You got a new bike. The price was right. Give them a chance to make things good.

You know, if they have a decent service department, and if you use them and try to develop a relationship with them, you may end up with better warranty treatment anyway.

A lot of what appears on this board presents an adversarial relationship between dealers and owners. It is actually possible to find good dealers out there, and when you do find them, if you don't support them, you should expect them to go out of business.

I'll probably get hammered for the contrarian view, but buyers who base all their decisions on price and "the deal" shouldn't be too surprised that there are dealers out there who base all of their decisions on short term profit.

My experience is that most of the time its worth spending some time to cultivate a good relationship with a dealer.... although my experience also shows that this is not always possible. Its always worth a shot, but sometimes you have to cut your losses and try another dealer more worthy of cultivation.

 

[CAJW]

I had this issue come up on an 05. To get the 05 the dealer had to have a purchaser. In this case they had their service manager put his name on the deposit. The bike was new as in it had never been riden, but when they sold the bike to a real person they found out the warrantee had been running and they only had 9 months on the original year.
The dealer was not trying to cheat anyone. The resolve on this was for the dealer to deliver the extended yes warrantee for a lesser cost.

Everyone was ok with the result.

Work intelligently with your dealer to see what they can do either with Yamaha or on the extended warrantee.

Don't let it impact the quality of your ride.

When I bought my 05' it only had 10 mos. warranty left, but the dealer informed me of it, same situation as above. Personally, I'd "offer" to let the dealer pony up a YES warranty and call it even. If they don't bite, then they either are b.s.ing you or they truly didn't know there was a problem. After that, Yamaha would be your next call. Good luck,but worst case scenario is you buy the YES warranty from D&H before the factory one expires and then write bad reviews on every forum you can find about the dealer!

 

[Randy]

I don't think you've got any cause to be p'o'ed at the dealer yet.
Wait until you see if they can get the warranty issue straightened out.

You got a new bike. The price was right. Give them a chance to make things good.

You know, if they have a decent service department, and if you use them and try to develop a relationship with them, you may end up with better warranty treatment anyway.

A lot of what appears on this board presents an adversarial relationship between dealers and owners. It is actually possible to find good dealers out there, and when you do find them, if you don't support them, you should expect them to go out of business.

I'll probably get hammered for the contrarian view, but buyers who base all their decisions on price and "the deal" shouldn't be too surprised that there are dealers out there who base all of their decisions on short term profit.

My experience is that most of the time its worth spending some time to cultivate a good relationship with a dealer.... although my experience also shows that this is not always possible. Its always worth a shot, but sometimes you have to cut your losses and try another dealer more worthy of cultivation.

I could not agree with you more.

 

[Fly4hire]

I don't think you've got any cause to be p'o'ed at the dealer yet.
Wait until you see if they can get the warranty issue straightened out.

You got a new bike. The price was right. Give them a chance to make things good.

My experience is that most of the time its worth spending some time to cultivate a good relationship with a dealer.... although my experience also shows that this is not always possible. Its always worth a shot, but sometimes you have to cut your losses and try another dealer more worthy of cultivation.

I'm giving them the chance, but getting my ducks in a row. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.... The only reason I'll likely have nothing further to do with them is geographical - this dealer is several hours drive from where I live and there are several good dealers in the immediate vicinity.

 

[lotecredneck]

I don't think you've got any cause to be p'o'ed at the dealer yet.
Wait until you see if they can get the warranty issue straightened out.

You got a new bike. The price was right. Give them a chance to make things good.

My experience is that most of the time its worth spending some time to cultivate a good relationship with a dealer.... although my experience also shows that this is not always possible. Its always worth a shot, but sometimes you have to cut your losses and try another dealer more worthy of cultivation.

I'm giving them the chance, but getting my ducks in a row. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.... The only reason I'll likely have nothing further to do with them is geographical - this dealer is several hours drive from where I live and there are several good dealers in the immediate vicinity.

The dealer definitely knew at some point because they couldn't warranty register the bike if it in fact was already registered to another person. Send the VIN and I will look it up and send you the information off of Yamaha's dealer website.

Tony

 

[EXPDSGT]

Any lawyers out there? Turns out the bike I was sold new ("new" on all dealer PW, and built up out of the crate while I was there, 0 miles, told 1 yr warranty) was in fact a Yamaha Reps demo allocation bike that while never built or ridden, had been previously registered and has only 3 months of factory warranty remaining. :angry2: Only found out about warranty when I contacted D&H to buy YES and they ran the VIN.
Dealer claims they didn't know (is this really possible?), and waiting to see if corporate will reset warranty to my date of purchase, but if not this reeks of consumer fraud and I intend to pursue. Any advice appreciated. PM me if more appropriate.

Are you sure the bike was "Reg" with DMV or with Yamaha? If the title came back as "original" then I doubt it was Reg. with DMV

 

[El Toro]

I'm giving them the chance, but getting my ducks in a row. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.... The only reason I'll likely have nothing further to do with them is geographical - this dealer is several hours drive from where I live and there are several good dealers in the immediate vicinity.

Well, when you get right down to it, its nice to have the warranty, but "the worst" on this would seem relatively innocuous.

If you don't abuse the bike and if you have the required services properly performed, and if you don't rack up the miles like ScooterG, you may not miss the extra months.

Seriously though.... they ought to be able to straighten this out at the Yamaha level. And I'm not sure why you couldn't get the Y.E.S. warranty extension because if the bike is inspected by an authorized dealer selling the Y.E.S. program and he approves it, I think they'll sell you the Y.E.S. stuff right up to the end of the original factory warranty.