Look what I got in the mail --

[RadioHowie]

Thanks Joe2Lmaker!!!

They are gorgeous! You'll see 'em installed in 48 hours or so.

 

[fhaze]

Tetris blocks?

 

[RadioHowie]

Tetris blocks?

If I told ya, I'd haveta kill ya! :assassin:

CLICK

 

[Dangerous Dave]

You running a full aftermarket exhaust??

 

[Old Michael]

So anything we mail you, you'll bolt onto your bike?

What's your address Howie?

 

[RaYzerman19]

Hey, those are strut mounts for two wings and an airfoil. What, you crazy? This thing already flies!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RadioHowie]

You running a full aftermarket exhaust??

Nope. One has nothing to do with the other.

So anything we mail you, you'll bolt onto your bike?What's your address Howie?

Not if it takes 'D' cells. PM me and I'll send you my address. h34r:

 

[Dangerous Dave]

You running a full aftermarket exhaust??

Nope. One has nothing to do with the other.

Well, I could be wrong, but I believe the PAIR valve is there to oxygenate the cats so they can do their thing...that is, catalyze. That's why automotive EFI systems are setup to toggle rich/lean/rich/lean. Cats need oxygen to catalyze the exhaust, so they alternate oxygenation/catalyzation. Most bike EFI systems just force air down the exhaust via AIR or PAIR systems, rather than toggling. Hence my question.

 

[wfooshee]

Dangerous Dave owes everybody BEER!!!! 'Cause he's WRONG!!!!!!!

Kiddin' DD.

But the PAIR system has nothing to do with the catalysts. It introduces air into the exhaust stream to allow unburned hydrocarbons to finish combustion, thus reducing emmissions. (Unburned hydrocarbons = gasoline vapor into the atmosphere.) You hear it as popping on decelleration, and many folks find it annoying and remove the PAIR system. They also remove it just to clean up the top of the motor, to get rid of all those hoses.

Automotive EFI toggles rich/lean/rich/lean because it's hunting ideal mixture, and its only indicator is the O2 sensor: "yes there's oxygen, it must be running lean, increase the fuel spray," or "no there's no oxygen, it must be running rich, reduce the fuel spray." It's not looking for oxygen to do anything with the catalyst (which could care less about oxygen,) it's using the presence or absence of oxygen in the exhaust stream to determine correct fuel/air ratio.

BTW, the Feej does that, too, unless you disconnect the O2 sensor because you have a Power Commander or something similar.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Dangerous Dave owes everybody BEER!!!! 'Cause he's WRONG!!!!!!!
Kiddin' DD.

But the PAIR system has nothing to do with the catalysts. It introduces air into the exhaust stream to allow unburned hydrocarbons to finish combustion, thus reducing emmissions. (Unburned hydrocarbons = gasoline vapor into the atmosphere.) You hear it as popping on decelleration, and many folks find it annoying and remove the PAIR system. They also remove it just to clean up the top of the motor, to get rid of all those hoses.

Well, you made me go look, so here's what the FJR service manual says;

"The air induction system (AI system) introduces fresh air into the exhaust port in order to burn the

unburned gas (which is present in the exhaust gas) in the exhaust pipe. The burning of the

unburned gases in this manner enhances the efficiency of the catalyst and results in cleaner

exhaust gases."

So I stand corrected. However............

Automotive EFI toggles rich/lean/rich/lean because it's hunting ideal mixture, and its only indicator is the O2 sensor: "yes there's oxygen, it must be running lean, increase the fuel spray," or "no there's no oxygen, it must be running rich, reduce the fuel spray." It's not looking for oxygen to do anything with the catalyst (which could care less about oxygen,) it's using the presence or absence of oxygen in the exhaust stream to determine correct fuel/air ratio.

I'll dispute at least part of this. Yes, it's hunting for stoichiometry, but cats do need oxygenation to promote catalyzation. Too tired to find you documentation on it tonight...but I'll be back.

And I did just pick up several 6-packs of Black Toad from Trader Joes, so be here about 7:30 tomorrow night and we'll knock 'em down.

 

[Zorlac]

So anything we mail you, you'll bolt onto your bike?What's your address Howie?

:rofl: :rofl: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Ok, a quickie from Wiki.

"Since 1981, three-way catalytic converters have been used in vehicle emission control systems in North America and many other countries on roadgoing vehicles. A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous tasks:

Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx → xO2 + N2

Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 → 2CO2

Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (HC) to carbon dioxide and water: CxH2x+2 + 2xO2 → xCO2 + 2xH2O

These three reactions occur most efficiently when the catalytic converter receives exhaust from an engine running slightly above the stoichiometric point. This is between 14.6 and 14.8 parts air to 1 part fuel, by weight, for gasoline. The ratio for LPG, natural gas and ethanol fuels is slightly different, requiring modified fuel system settings when using those fuels. Generally, engines fitted with 3-way catalytic converters are equipped with a computerised closed-loop feedback fuel injection system employing one or more oxygen sensors, though early in the deployment of 3-way converters, carburetors equipped for feedback mixture control were used. While a 3-way catalyst can be used in an open-loop system, NOx reduction efficiency is low. Within a narrow fuel/air ratio band surrounding stoichiometry, conversion of all three pollutants is nearly complete. However, outside of that band, conversion efficiency falls off very rapidly. When there is more oxygen than required, then the system is said to be running lean, and the system is in oxidizing condition. In that case, the converter's two oxidizing reactions (oxidation of CO and hydrocarbons) are favoured, at the expense of the reducing reaction. When there is excessive fuel, then the engine is running rich. The reduction of NOx is favoured, at the expense of CO and HC oxidation.

Oxygen storage

Three-way catalytic converters can store oxygen from the exhaust gas stream, usually when the air fuel ratio goes lean[4]. When insufficient oxygen is available from the exhaust stream the stored oxygen is released and consumed. This happens either when oxygen derived from NOx reduction is unavailable or certain maneuvers such as hard acceleration enrich the mixture beyond the ability of the converter to compensate."

Now I'm goin' ta bed!

 

[RadioHowie]

I'll dispute at least part of this. Yes, it's hunting for stoichiometry, but cats do need oxygenation to promote catalyzation.

This is very true...but the amount of oxygen in the exhaust stream is controlled by the ECU, from signals sent by the 02 sensor, not by the PAIR valves. In fact, once the motor is up to normal operating temps, the PAIR system only provides added 02 at closed throttle conditions, i.e,, at idle or decelerating. That's what causes the decel popping in late model motorcycles. Extra air is pumped into the exhaust when the throttle is closed, and unburned gas ignites in the headers....pop-pop-pop.....we've all heard it, and moreso in aftermarket exhausts that don't have the same amount of "muffling" as stockers.

To quote the FSM:

[SIZE=12pt]AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The air induction system (AI system) introduces fresh air into the exhaust port in order to burn the unburned gas (which is present in the exhaust gas) in the exhaust pipe. The burning of the unburned gases in this manner enhances the efficiency of the catalyst and results in cleaner exhaust gases. The AI system takes a portion of the air from the air cleaner, sends it to the reed valve via the air cut-off valve, and introduces it directly into the exhaust port through the reed valve. The air cut-off valve is controlled by the signals from the ECU in accordance with the combustion conditions. Ordinarily, the air cut-off valve opens to allow the air to flow during idle and closes to cut off the flow when the motorcycle is being driven. However, if the coolant temperature is below the specified value, the air cut-off valve remains open and allows the air to flow into the exhaust pipe until the temperature becomes higher than the specified value. The reed valve is provided on the cylinder head cover above the cylinders, and sends air to the exhaust pipe through the inside of the cylinder head. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Does removing the PAIR increase the performance of the bike? Not one whit. Is there a significant reduction in weight. Hellz no. Does it clean up the top of the motor and make it easier to work "under the hood"? You bet yer sweet *** it does. [/SIZE]

 

[Warchild]

This powder-coating job is simply exquisite, Joe2Lmaker! B)

 

[Dangerous Dave]

To quote the FSM:
[SIZE=12pt]AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM [/SIZE]The air induction system (AI system) introduces fresh air into the exhaust port in order to burn the unburned gas (which is present in the exhaust gas) in the exhaust pipe. The burning of the unburned gases in this manner enhances the efficiency of the catalyst and results in cleaner exhaust gases. The AI system takes a portion of the air from the air cleaner, sends it to the reed valve via the air cut-off valve, and introduces it directly into the exhaust port through the reed valve. The air cut-off valve is controlled by the signals from the ECU in accordance with the combustion conditions. Ordinarily, the air cut-off valve opens to allow the air to flow during idle and closes to cut off the flow when the motorcycle is being driven. However, if the coolant temperature is below the specified value, the air cut-off valve remains open and allows the air to flow into the exhaust pipe until the temperature becomes higher than the specified value. The reed valve is provided on the cylinder head cover above the cylinders, and sends air to the exhaust pipe through the inside of the cylinder head.

 

 


Is there an echo in here???

 

[Zorlac]

"Does removing the PAIR increase the performance of the bike? Not one whit. Is there a significant reduction in weight. Hellz no. Does it clean up the top of the motor and make it easier to work "under the hood"? You bet yer sweet *** it does."

That's the main motivation here?

Meh

 

[Bustanut joker]

Funny you mention how this helps eliminate the popping on deceleration Howie. 'memeber when it was cool to have that sound

It was a sure indicator you had a fast car.

Just like adding chrome under the hood, only cheaper..

Hey that's it!

Joe ya gotta chrome these things.. I bet we'd get an extra ten Horses then

:jester:

 

[v65]

I thought ****ography wasn't allowed here abouts?

 

[beemerdons]

So anything we mail you, you'll bolt onto your bike?What's your address Howie?

:rofl: :rofl: :lol2: :lol2:

RadioHowie: ShinyPartsUp and I are sending parts to Brodie to accentuate that "fantastic" new paint job on his redone FJR.

Shiny sent him shag rug to go on the dash "pimp" style and I sent him fuzzy dice to hang on the bars. Same sent to you too